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Muscovite ("Russian" ) war on Ukraine

Litwin

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Wow another russia thread, I somehow doubt you read anything you post, or understand the western coup to overhtrow the ukrainian govt, or why russia ran to sieze ukraine, or how by treaty ukraine was bound to lease crimea to russia as terms for it's independance from russia.
 
Wow another russia thread, I somehow doubt you read anything you post, or understand the western coup to overhtrow the ukrainian govt, or why russia ran to sieze ukraine, or how by treaty ukraine was bound to lease crimea to russia as terms for it's independance from russia.

I could be wrong, but I think he's from Ukraine.
 
I could be wrong, but I think he's from Ukraine.

I thought it was lithunia, either way it was a horribly complex situation, and much like arab spring the western countries directed revolution, which has left the country in chaos.

Russia and ukraine have been on shaky grounds since the ending of the soviet union, and their own recognized sovereignity is based on treaty between the two countries. Infact one of those treaties covered ethnic minorities, which ukraine attempted to violate, by trying to ban russian language as well as polish. The treaty stated they could not disenfranchise eachothers ethnic minorities and was done because how many russians were in ukraine and how many ukrainians were in russia.

It was a rivalry already bad, and the west trying to stick their hand in it made it worse, much like it did for the middle east. It is also similar to the middle east in that border disputes between ethnic groups were rampant since the fall of the ottoman empire, and they have been ongoing since the fall of the soviet union as well, and simple defined borders seem to not work well in either.
 
I thought it was lithunia, either way it was a horribly complex situation, and much like arab spring the western countries directed revolution, which has left the country in chaos.

Russia and ukraine have been on shaky grounds since the ending of the soviet union, and their own recognized sovereignity is based on treaty between the two countries. Infact one of those treaties covered ethnic minorities, which ukraine attempted to violate, by trying to ban russian language as well as polish. The treaty stated they could not disenfranchise eachothers ethnic minorities and was done because how many russians were in ukraine and how many ukrainians were in russia.

It was a rivalry already bad, and the west trying to stick their hand in it made it worse, much like it did for the middle east. It is also similar to the middle east in that border disputes between ethnic groups were rampant since the fall of the ottoman empire, and they have been ongoing since the fall of the soviet union as well, and simple defined borders seem to not work well in either.

Ah, you may be right...his avatar is Lithuanian. So why would you think he knows less about the Ukraine Russia situation than you?
 
Ah, you may be right...his avatar is Lithuanian. So why would you think he knows less about the Ukraine Russia situation than you?

Because he seems to have no input in any discussion other than a copy/paste op and responses.
 
Because he seems to have no input in any discussion other than a copy/paste op and responses.

Maybe his English isn't as good as yours, did you ever think of that?
 
Maybe his English isn't as good as yours, did you ever think of that?

Not much of an excuse, if he is capable of debating the subject let him, so far I am convinced he is a bot.
 
Not much of an excuse, if he is capable of debating the subject let him, so far I am convinced he is a bot.

It's a real good excuse if he doesn't speak English very well. Why would a bot post an hour and half long lecture by a former DoD official and analyst? lol
 
Wow another russia thread, I somehow doubt you read anything you post, or understand the western coup to overhtrow the ukrainian govt, or why russia ran to sieze ukraine, or how by treaty ukraine was bound to lease crimea to russia as terms for it's independance from russia.

Probably because that didn't happen, as Euromaiden was a revolution, not a coup.
 
quote--Euromaiden was a revolution..


Yep, a grassroots revolution,

that got rid of putlers, puppet leader, Yanokovich

who with his buddies robbed Ukraine blind,

and kept the country under russia's thumb..Ed
 
WINNING--the question is not about the strengths of militaries per se, but rather about one defeating the other.
It is quite possible that a weaker military defeats a stronger military. For example, Russia's military was
beat back in the first Chechen war, which was an all-out war for Chechens..

In practice, the attackers need larger armies to defeat the defenders - two-thee times is a good rule of thumb,
and this is for regular militaries. When a country is attacked on its home territory, the invading military has
to fight not only the defending military, but also the national guard, the police , guerrillas, etc..


..........................
 
quote--Euromaiden was a revolution..


Yep, a grassroots revolution,

that got rid of putlers, puppet leader, Yanokovich

who with his buddies robbed Ukraine blind,

and kept the country under russia's thumb..Ed

What?

The Maidan revolution was about bringing democracy to Ukraine...or something. Right? This alienated the people
of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for, rather thought Ukraine had a democracy already.

Their president was removed - replaced with an interim president who tried to ban their language and appointed
billionaire governors of the eastern regions without elections - and then burned the people who protested alive.
East Ukraine, at this point, got it's taste of the new "Ukrainian democracy and freedom" and found they did not care for it.
 
Typical russian troll inspired.responses.

As far as banning the language a few hotheads wanted that but the Rada voted no..
The Rada is the Ukrainian Parliament......

Next Ukraine has a parliamentary government, and that body gave him no confidence vote,
which means there would be an election. He agreed with opposition to that and he could have run again.

Instead few days after he had his goons shoot some demonstrators, he and buddies looted
as much as they could and fled back to papa putin in russia with the loot.Went back to mothership.

The billionaires that were running the Donbass were already there and some like Rinat Ahkmetov
were too buddy buddy to putin, and that crooked bastard still has factories going there with russian help....

And Ukrainian Government NEVER burned anyone alive,, those russians and supporters in Odessa ,
attacked a demonstration that was supporting Ukraine, and that demonstration was much bigger,
and chased the russians and supporters back to that building they holed up in, The russian side
threw a bunch smoke and fire bombs and in the mele, the building caught on fire.
There is video proof of what happened, and it even shows Ukraine side even rescuing some from fire.

As far as intentionally murdering people the DPR/LNR russian gangster leaders

butchered opposition people to force their will over the area they control,

only about 3% of Ukraine. ..Ed
 
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Wow another russia thread, I somehow doubt you read anything you post, or understand the western coup to overhtrow the ukrainian govt, or why russia ran to sieze ukraine, or how by treaty ukraine was bound to lease crimea to russia as terms for it's independance from russia.

And what exactly did you want to say?
 
Wow another russia thread, I somehow doubt you read anything you post, or understand the western coup to overhtrow the ukrainian govt, or why russia ran to sieze ukraine, or how by treaty ukraine was bound to lease crimea to russia as terms for it's independance from russia.

And because you feel that "the West" refused Nato membership to Kiew and didn't station assets in Ukraine and im particular in Crimea, Russia was entitled to threaten the elected President of Ukraine and force him to decline signature of the trade treaty with the EU? I admit that the treaty was stupid under the circumstances. But a war of aggression and conquer as remedy? That is wild.
 
It's a real good excuse if he doesn't speak English very well. Why would a bot post an hour and half long lecture by a former DoD official and analyst? lol

To waste people's time?
 
And because you feel that "the West" refused Nato membership to Kiew and didn't station assets in Ukraine and im particular in Crimea, Russia was entitled to threaten the elected President of Ukraine and force him to decline signature of the trade treaty with the EU? I admit that the treaty was stupid under the circumstances. But a war of aggression and conquer as remedy? That is wild.

You do realize ukraine is split east west like america was north south during the civil war. eastern ukraine is very pro russian, western ukraine is anti russian. The president then was elected through fair elections and was pro russian. This had to do with western ukraine and western govts not wanting a pro eastern president or policy, and not signing on with the eu was a big dealbreaker. This led to violent uprising and the elected president unconstitutionally being removed from office, as the parliament failed to rech the number of votes to do so, yet had him removed anyways, as well as the govt purged of his supporters or anyone pro eastern.

But wait when did russia force him to decline the eu signature? last I checked he was anti eu and pro eurasian union to begin with.
 
Ah eastern Ukraine that was supposedly in love with russia and
russia's puppet prez is only about 7%, and polls taken now without
a russian gun pointed at them will show, little support for russia.....

AS far as Yanokovich being elected fair, his election was rigged and crooked and
he even jailed the opposition on phony charges...

He was not in favor of EU but was going to sign due to political pressure,
until putin gave him and his buddys a couple billion dollar ''loan''.............

He did not get a vote of confidence which means new election..
The demonstrations were not violent, until his goons got violent....Ed
 
Use this short vocabulary to translate the language the kremlin uses in
its broadcasts into human language:

Sacral — anything that the kremlin wants to steal....

Sovereign — anything that the kremlin has stolen already

Geopolitics — a rationale the kremlin uses to steal

Sphere of influence — the area the kremlin already considers its territory,
even if it hasn’t stolen it yet.

Fascists — those who do not voluntarily share “sacral” with the kremlin

Liberals — “fascists” who talk a lot and have nothing to steal

Spiritual staples — the talent to follow government orders

Sociological survey — a notification to the population of what specific kinds
of “spiritual staples” are sought from them

Balanced opinion — a lively monologue on the topic of “spiritual staples“

Blogger — a low-paid propaganda official

Expert — a propaganda official with mid-range compensation

Political analyst — a highly-paid propaganda official

Journalist — a gofer for russia, a microphone with legs, like graham chapman

Liberal democracy — Zhirinovsky......

Managed democracy — Pavlovsky.............

Sovereign democracy — Surkov...........

Dear fellow Russians — cheap Russians

Real patriots — expensive Russians...........

There will be no war — there is already an invasion..............

To dance to the Western tune — to abide by international treaties and protocols.......

Eurasia — territory with free accreditation for agents of Russian Federal Security Service (FSB)

Russian human rights representative — another name for an FSB handler

Unethical — anything unsanctioned by the FSB............

Illegal — anything that is done at free will, without a government order..........

Honest elections — voting conducted under FSB control with guns pointed at voters................

Coup d’etat or junta — any voting conducted without FSB control ......

Culture — a concert to celebrate the National Police Day given by pop singers Baskov and Kobzon

The Russian State Duma — the combination of a cheap buffet and an expensive garage

The Kremlin — the combination of an expensive buffet and a no-charge garage
 
viktor-yanukovich-expresidente-ucrania-casa--default.jpg

Ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych left his private residence in Balaclava, in a hurry in 2014, for russia
Mr Yanukovych was deposed by parliament last Saturday after months of bloody unrest.

The estate he abandoned is lavish and luxurious, with some newspapers openly defining it
as 'fit for a tyrant'. Set in the beautiful countryside outside of Kiev, the 343 acre estate
features a private petting zoo, golden toilets and even a full size pirate galleon, which
incidentally floats in a lovely man-made lake.

At the news that Mr Yanukovych had fled, protesters, journalists and common people gathered to
explore his mansion and what they found did not fail expectations: just as they imagined, the
luxurious home of their deposed president is a monument to money, power and corruption.

At first, people were astonished at all that land surrounding the palace, enough to be considered a
miniature park. A part from the above mentioned Spanish galleon and the zoo – including pigs,
antelopes, bears etc, the mansion itself quite strikingly reminds a sort vernacular Edwardian style,
but in such a bigger scale to result imposing and ridiculous at the same time, if that's ever possible.

Covered in wood, the mansion is also reported to have costed £300 million to build.

Too opulent to be tasty, the interiors of the mansion feature a hell of
a lot of marble, and gold of course..................

This is representative, of the major reason there was demonstrations against him,
he and buddies robbed the country blind...And as much as this opulence cost,
when they left,he and buddies robbed many times more and took it to russia..Ed


.......................
 
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You do realize ukraine is split east west like america was north south during the civil war. eastern ukraine is very pro russian, western ukraine is anti russian. The president then was elected through fair elections and was pro russian. This had to do with western ukraine and western govts not wanting a pro eastern president or policy, and not signing on with the eu was a big dealbreaker. This led to violent uprising and the elected president unconstitutionally being removed from office, as the parliament failed to rech the number of votes to do so, yet had him removed anyways, as well as the govt purged of his supporters or anyone pro eastern.

But wait when did russia force him to decline the eu signature? last I checked he was anti eu and pro eurasian union to begin with.

Yes. I remember the situation quite well and the Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. As stupid as the EU people were, it does not excuse the war of aggression Putin answered with.
 
Ah eastern Ukraine that was supposedly in love with russia and
russia's puppet prez is only about 7%, and polls taken now without
a russian gun pointed at them will show, little support for russia.....

AS far as Yanokovich being elected fair, his election was rigged and crooked and
he even jailed the opposition on phony charges...

He was not in favor of EU but was going to sign due to political pressure,
until putin gave him and his buddys a couple billion dollar ''loan''.............

He did not get a vote of confidence which means new election..
The demonstrations were not violent, until his goons got violent....Ed

Let's get the story correct. Russia wanted no war with Ukraine. If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine
they would be on the Dneiper River within a week & be at Lviv the real heartland
of the coup within a fortnight. Russia merely aided the 3 eastern provinces.

'In the last legitimate Ukie election the following Provinces voted accordingly:
Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

A breakdown of results showed that Ukraine was deeply divided, with the Russian-speaking east and south
overwhelmingly backing Yanukovych, and the Ukrainian-speaking west and centre, including Kiev, voting for Tymoshenko.

Crimea and neighboring Sevastopol -- the two newly annexed portions of Russia -- were certainly bastions of support
for Yanukovych in the 2010 election. But while they came close to providing his entire national margin of victory, they
fell a bit short, providing 90 percent of Yanukovych’s winning margin.

Almost immediately after ultra right wing Ukranian Nationalist overthrew Yanukovich the entire
Ukraine navy had “defected” in the Crimea region, pledging allegiance to its unrecognised pro-Russian
leader and surrendering the country's Sevastopol headquarters.

Victoria Nuland who BO had in charge of state in Europe was hoping for a Kiev Maiden for years
spending huge amounts of US dollars to provoke it. Nuland was a lunatic - a neocon lunatic.
When someone curses peace agreements then you are safe to ignore their opinion.
She is a disgrace to everything real diplomacy stands for, She still hasn't recovered after Putin slapped her on the
face with Crimea changing hands quicker that one can say peninsula.If her tongue were any more forked it could
be laid on the table next to a knife and spoon.'
 
Let's get the story correct. Russia wanted no war with Ukraine. If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine
they would be on the Dneiper River within a week & be at Lviv the real heartland
of the coup within a fortnight. Russia merely aided the 3 eastern provinces.

'In the last legitimate Ukie election the following Provinces voted accordingly:
Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

A breakdown of results showed that Ukraine was deeply divided, with the Russian-speaking east and south
overwhelmingly backing Yanukovych, and the Ukrainian-speaking west and centre, including Kiev, voting for Tymoshenko.

Crimea and neighboring Sevastopol -- the two newly annexed portions of Russia -- were certainly bastions of support
for Yanukovych in the 2010 election. But while they came close to providing his entire national margin of victory, they
fell a bit short, providing 90 percent of Yanukovych’s winning margin.

Almost immediately after ultra right wing Ukranian Nationalist overthrew Yanukovich the entire
Ukraine navy had “defected” in the Crimea region, pledging allegiance to its unrecognised pro-Russian
leader and surrendering the country's Sevastopol headquarters.

Victoria Nuland who BO had in charge of state in Europe was hoping for a Kiev Maiden for years
spending huge amounts of US dollars to provoke it. Nuland was a lunatic - a neocon lunatic.
When someone curses peace agreements then you are safe to ignore their opinion.
She is a disgrace to everything real diplomacy stands for, She still hasn't recovered after Putin slapped her on the
face with Crimea changing hands quicker that one can say peninsula.If her tongue were any more forked it could
be laid on the table next to a knife and spoon.'

:roll: THAT - is revisionist crap. I was in Ukraine during parts of 2013/2014.
 
:roll: THAT - is revisionist crap. I was in Ukraine during parts of 2013/2014.

Just what that I offered in my post is crap (FAKE NEWS)? I stand by that post without any fear of RESPONSIBLE contradiction.
BTW unlike you, I have no dog in this fight no Russian or Ukraine ancestry, never went to either country & never intend to!
 
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