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Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain collisi

American

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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...tigate-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collision.html

A top U.S. Navy admiral on Monday called for a swift and thorough investigation into Monday's collision of the USS John S. McCain into an oil tanker near Singapore-- marking the second deadly mishap that occurred in the Pacific in the past three months.




Adm. John Richardson ordered an operational pause in all the fleets around the world while the Navy works to determine the factors behind the collision. Richardson tweeted that the Navy will conduct a wide investigation, including a review into the possibility of "cyber intrusion or sabotage."
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Thoughts?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

It's a bit suspicious that's for sure. But certainly those who know aren't talking.

But someone in China or Russia could have a serious case of the giggles right now.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

My wife asked exactly what the OP suggested: is a foreign enemy conducting cyber warfare against our armed forces?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...tigate-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collision.html


Thoughts?
Click to expand...

This theory seems like lame attempt to both delay the "investigation", remove human responsibility and to pretend that an "autopilot" system (or lack thereof?) was the real problem. If you cannot "see" something the size and speed of an oil tanker approaching then how can you not be vulnerable to "terrorists" in smaller craft (USS Cole?) much less any enemy using modern weapon systems?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

I expect that the ships have watches to look out for other ships in the area, especially at night, along with radar.

The watch if it exists should be able to visually see a large cargo ship from quite a distance away.

As I expect a look out is mandatory, the failure is less likely to be that from hacking as opposed to training and discipline from the top down
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

ttwtt78640 said:
This theory seems like lame attempt to both delay the "investigation", remove human responsibility and to pretend that an "autopilot" system (or lack thereof?) was the real problem. If you cannot "see" something the size and speed of an oil tanker approaching then how can you not be vulnerable to "terrorists" in smaller craft (USS Cole?) much less any enemy using modern weapon systems?
Click to expand...

I agree, last I knew the bridge on Navy ships have windows.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

MaggieD said:
I think you've raised a very interesting point.
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I think they're looking at all possibilities. These accidents all happened near Japan.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

ttwtt78640 said:
This theory seems like lame attempt to both delay the "investigation", remove human responsibility and to pretend that an "autopilot" system (or lack thereof?) was the real problem. If you cannot "see" something the size and speed of an oil tanker approaching then how can you not be vulnerable to "terrorists" in smaller craft (USS Cole?) much less any enemy using modern weapon systems?
Click to expand...

Please to explain how this theory would delay the investigation.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

Our military must be using Microsoft Windoze.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

MaggieD said:
Please to explain how this theory would delay the investigation.
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By diverting resources and focus away from what may likely be the real cause.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
I agree, last I knew the bridge on Navy ships have windows.
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The use of the "cyber" excuse also implies that either an external (and unencrypted?) source is responsible (depended upon?) for navigation or that onboard systems are no longer present, sufficient or hardwired to the appropriate locations onboard.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

JamesBY said:
My wife asked exactly what the OP suggested: is a foreign enemy conducting cyber warfare against our armed forces?
Click to expand...

The problem I have is if they were navigating in the dark with no radar, no traffic control, then yeah. But there are several sensors on a vessel like GPS, military GPS, radar, and the less reliable MK1 eyeball.

There is a crew of several personnel all watching where they are going, and even if traffic controllers vector you into harms way you can over ride.

I'm very confused... has "remote cloaking ability" become a thing? GoddamRusskies.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

Beaudreaux said:
By diverting resources and focus away from what may likely be the real cause.
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Beaudreax, I've agreed with most every post you've ever made on this forum. Excep this one. This investigation is going to focus on equipment failure, in my opinion. Or failure on the part of the people operating it. On both ships. No matter what the end cause of that failure is determined to be. BOTH ships had to mess up. A double failure. I think American has a very valid point.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

MaggieD said:
Please to explain how this theory would delay the investigation.
Click to expand...

By diverting attention away from onboard personnel and onboard (backup?) systems. Are we to believe that some external (cyber) source is now primarily responsible for the basic navigation of our billion dollar war toys? GPS systems are very cool for vehicle navigation aids but they don't show you approaching semis, farm animals, rock/mud slides or washed out sections of highway.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

MaggieD said:
Beaudreax, I've agreed with most every post you've ever made on this forum. Excep this one. This investigation is going to focus on equipment failure, in my opinion. Or failure on the part of the people operating it. On both ships. No matter what the end cause of that failure is determined to be. BOTH ships had to mess up. A double failure. I think American has a very valid point.
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I'm not saying that's what's happening or that I even believe that. I was just answering your question as to what it meant. Please don't think I meant that was what is happening. What I do believe is that anything is potentially possible in today's high-tech world, and the OP has a point worth investigating.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

ttwtt78640 said:
The use of the "cyber" excuse also implies that either an external (and unencrypted?) source is responsible (depended upon?) for navigation or that onboard systems are no longer present, sufficient or hardwired to the appropriate locations onboard.
Click to expand...

And God knows that would be a waste of time. An investigation does not take a linear approach. One team will interrogate personnel. One team will inspect equipment. This could only have happened if both ships failed either in personnel or equipment. And the fact that we've had a few of these multiple failures is suspicious.

Aside...a life-long favorite story from Seven Habits of Highly Successful People...and a very poor rendition at that...

American naval vessels were on the sea traveling in the middle of the night in a convoy with the Admiral's ship in the lead. The Admiral's ship spotted another ship coming straight at them. The Admiral was notified that the ship would not change course. So the Admiral himself got on the radio.

"This is Admiral So-and-So, change course immediately. You are on a collision course with us."

"Sir, I would suggest YOU change course."

"Damn it, son!! You're talking to Admiral So and So. We are a fleet of seven ships! You are ordered to change course immediately!!"

"Sir, with all due respect? We're a lighthouse."

I never miss an opportunity to share that powerful story.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

Hacking could possibly be involved, but an accident like this involves the failure of several
redundant systems at the same time. That type of failure usually involves Human override.
A modern Navy ship can "see" the sonar of a nearby ship both actively and passively.
The radar would also detect the floating mountain near by.
Oil tankers usually run all lit up, and have navigation lights, as well as their own radar.
For this to happen the crew of both ships would have to have been not looking , and not paying attention
to all of the warning alarms going off.
If hacked, the hack would have to be on both ships, and include something from keeping both crews from looking out the windows.
I simply do not see all of those unrelated systems failing at the same time.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

ttwtt78640 said:
By diverting attention away from onboard personnel and onboard (backup?) systems. Are we to believe that some external (cyber) source is now primarily responsible for the basic navigation of our billion dollar war toys? GPS systems are very cool for vehicle navigation aids but they don't show you approaching semis, farm animals, rock/mud slides or washed out sections of highway.
Click to expand...

Multiple onboard personnel failure and/or onboard multiple equipment failures have GOT to be the cause. Once they have isolated that, then the question becomes "Why?"

To think this suspicion is going to divert from that doesn't pass muster. It HAD to be that. And finding who and what failed is in no way going to be slowed by worrying about the reasons why. In my opinion, of course.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

MaggieD said:
And God knows that would be a waste of time. An investigation does not take a linear approach. One team will interrogate personnel. One team will inspect equipment. This could only have happened if both ships failed either in personnel or equipment. And the fact that we've had a few of these multiple failures is suspicious.

Aside...a life-long favorite story from Seven Habits of Highly Successful People...and a very poor rendition at that...

American naval vessels were on the sea traveling in the middle of the night in a convoy with the Admiral's ship in the lead. The Admiral's ship spotted another ship coming straight at them. The Admiral was notified that the ship would not change course. So the Admiral himself got on the radio.

"This is Admiral So-and-So, change course immediately. You are on a collision course with us."

"Sir, I would suggest YOU change course."

"Damn it, son!! You're talking to Admiral So and So. We are a fleet of seven ships! You are ordered to change course immediately!!"

"Sir, with all due respect? We're a lighthouse."

I never miss an opportunity to share that powerful story.
Click to expand...

It is true that an investogation does not take a linear course yet also true that a "complete" investigation must await the the conclusive result from slowest team participating in it. That is why many (most?) NTSB investogations take years - that is wonerful but do we really want to take years to fix whatever is causing a huge, slow moving tanker to not be "seen"?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

The Ticonderoga ran aground in Tokyo bay and screwed up its propellers. The Champlain ran into a South Korean fishing boat that didn't have a radio. Not sure either of those sound like cyber warfare.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

longview said:
Hacking could possibly be involved, but an accident like this involves the failure of several
redundant systems at the same time. That type of failure usually involves Human override.
A modern Navy ship can "see" the sonar of a nearby ship both actively and passively.
The radar would also detect the floating mountain near by.
Oil tankers usually run all lit up, and have navigation lights, as well as their own radar.
For this to happen the crew of both ships would have to have been not looking , and not paying attention
to all of the warning alarms going off.
If hacked, the hack would have to be on both ships, and include something from keeping both crews from looking out the windows.
I simply do not see all of those unrelated systems failing at the same time.
Click to expand...

This is a very interesting post. The windows, though, would only be a factor in daylight. Thanks for some good information.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

katzgar said:
The Ticonderoga ran aground in Tokyo bay and screwed up its propellers. The Champlain ran into a South Korean fishing boat that didn't have a radio. Not sure either of those sound like cyber warfare.
Click to expand...

A barge took out a critical Tampa Bay bridge years ago. Not sure that was cyber warfare either.

In today's world, with technology growing by leaps and bounds, nothing can be ruled out.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

MaggieD said:
This is a very interesting post. The windows, though, would only be a factor in daylight. Thanks for some good information.
Click to expand...
I have fished many times in Galveston Bay at night, (Lots of oil tankers),
They are always lit up like Christmas when underway.
I have seen a few times where when a ship is at an anchorage, with no lights,
but are still visible because they hide the stars.
 
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