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Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain collisi

Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

longview said:
I have fished many times in Galveston Bay at night, (Lots of oil tankers),
They are always lit up like Christmas when underway.
I have seen a few times where when a ship is at an anchorage, with no lights,
but are still visible because they hide the stars.
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Excellent point.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

The most likely explanation is gamesmanship (my ship is bigger or more important then yours so I'm not moving).
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...tigate-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collision.html


Thoughts?
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I've been contemplating this since the earlier collision. Huge tankers and cargo ships take ten miles to negotiate turns. Destroyers are supposed to be nimble, defensive weapons to protect carriers, etc. The destroyers can turn rather quickly, especially compared to the huge ships. Crews being aware of this must always allow large distances between themselves and slow turning behemoths. They destroyers should always be thinking ten miles ahead as a potential collision point. Radars would keep the bridge informed of the locations of vessels and aircraft within a range much larger than 10 miles. If the US ships are operating with a "get the **** out of my way" attitude, then that arrogance might be the problem. Food for thought,.
/
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

DaveFagan said:
I've been contemplating this since the earlier collision. Huge tankers and cargo ships take ten miles to negotiate turns. Destroyers are supposed to be nimble, defensive weapons to protect carriers, etc. The destroyers can turn rather quickly, especially compared to the huge ships. Crews being aware of this must always allow large distances between themselves and slow turning behemoths. They destroyers should always be thinking ten miles ahead as a potential collision point. Radars would keep the bridge informed of the locations of vessels and aircraft within a range much larger than 10 miles. If the US ships are operating with a "get the **** out of my way" attitude, then that arrogance might be the problem. Food for thought,.
/
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I was thinking of what an effective hack would look like.
Maybe something like for weeks before, randomly setting off the detection alert alarm.
The alarm is a false positive, and no fault is found, the error is logged.
The night crew has maybe silenced the false alarm 20 of 30 times over the past month,
after a while they just assume it is the same error again, and do not even look out the window.
This would only work if all the systems go through the same alarm, but I think
compartmentalization means the different systems come along different paths.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

Napoleon said:
The most likely explanation is gamesmanship (my ship is bigger or more important then yours so I'm not moving).
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Yeah, that's it. :roll: :lol:
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

longview said:
Hacking could possibly be involved, but an accident like this involves the failure of several
redundant systems at the same time. That type of failure usually involves Human override.
A modern Navy ship can "see" the sonar of a nearby ship both actively and passively.
The radar would also detect the floating mountain near by.
Oil tankers usually run all lit up, and have navigation lights, as well as their own radar.
For this to happen the crew of both ships would have to have been not looking , and not paying attention
to all of the warning alarms going off.
If hacked, the hack would have to be on both ships, and include something from keeping both crews from looking out the windows.
I simply do not see all of those unrelated systems failing at the same time.
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A Navy colleague jokingly suggested they were busy texting. :lamo
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
Yeah, that's it. :roll: :lol:
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I'm being generous. The only other explanation is negligence and incompetence - which was the finding in the USS Fitzgerald investigation.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
A Navy colleague jokingly suggested they were busy texting. :lamo
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It is probably the best explanation

On 17 August 2017, Vice Chief of Naval Operations Admiral William Moran announced that Commander Bryce Benson, Executive Officer Commander Sean Babbitt and Ship Command Master Chief Petty Officer Brice Baldwin are to be relieved of shipboard duty, and close to a dozen other sailors will receive non-judicial punishment. Moran stated that "serious mistakes" were made by the "bridge team" (those conducting safety watch on board the ship's bridge) which caused them to lose "situational awareness," thus rendering it impossible to avoid the collision even after the container ship had already been sighted.[32]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

CONSPIRACY THEORY ALERT .............. no one is hacking the poor US Navy







the guys on those ships are on drugs .............
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

RetiredUSN said:
You need to understand how radar works and it's limitations when close to other ships.

No........ cyber warfare had nothing to do with this collision. The fact that it was struck on the port side raises a lot of questions if you understand the rules of the road in navigation.
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In this case I expect it means the cargo vessel is at fault, assuming no other conditions were involved correct. While for the Fitzgerald which was hit on the starboard side, indicates it was at fault

Correct?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

RetiredUSN said:
You need to understand how radar works and it's limitations when close to other ships.

No........ cyber warfare had nothing to do with this collision. The fact that it was struck on the port side raises a lot of questions if you understand the rules of the road in navigation.
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Uh huh, so go on.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

fmw said:
I have no idea. That is the purpose of the investigation. Why not just wait for the results.
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Who's been waiting on Mueller? No one, so why this?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

ttwtt78640 said:
This theory seems like lame attempt to both delay the "investigation", remove human responsibility and to pretend that an "autopilot" system (or lack thereof?) was the real problem. If you cannot "see" something the size and speed of an oil tanker approaching then how can you not be vulnerable to "terrorists" in smaller craft (USS Cole?) much less any enemy using modern weapon systems?
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I would like to know who missed the tanker on their watch. Multiple people had to fail at their jobs. I presume the Navy still has watches on their vessels, where their personnel look for amongst other things ships, boats and other seaway obstructions.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

PirateMk1 said:
I would like to know who missed the tanker on their watch. Multiple people had to fail at their jobs. I presume the Navy still has watches on their vessels, where their personnel look for amongst other things ships, boats and other seaway obstructions.
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Yep, these "accidents" that cost millions in repairs, down time and, worst of all, loss of life are totally unacceptable. Trying to blame these human failures on lack of automation is ridiculous.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
Uh huh, so go on.
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It means that the McCain was the "stand on vessel" in a passing situation which places the tanker in the position of responsibility. However, if it appears that the passing ship is going to cause a accident, the McCain would be partially at fault for not recognizing the situation and taking measures to do everything it could to avoid it.

But, I don't know if the tanker was crossing the channel, or transiting into or out of. There are a 1/2 dozen "rules of the road" situations that could have applied depending on each ships intended course.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

The hacking theory belongs in the CT forum.


Busy channels are a nightmare for a lot of captains

The Officer Of The Deck and the Junior Officer Of The Deck should have been on the bridge wings, and using the feedback from the lookouts. The radar watch should have been distancing the nearby ships and reporting the bearing and range to the OOD. The OOD evidently was not asking for enough information, or was blowing off the information from his/her watch standers.
 
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Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

The McClain reported a loss of steering 3 minutes before the accident.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

RetiredUSN said:
It means that the McCain was the "stand on vessel" in a passing situation which places the tanker in the position of responsibility. However, if it appears that the passing ship is going to cause a accident, the McCain would be partially at fault for not recognizing the situation and taking measures to do everything it could to avoid it.

But, I don't know if the tanker was crossing the channel, or transiting into or out of. There are a 1/2 dozen "rules of the road" situations that could have applied depending on each ships intended course.
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What about the big ship small ship rule?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
Who's been waiting on Mueller? No one, so why this?
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Mueller isn't investigating anything. He is looking around for something to investigate. Nobody should care.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

American said:
What about the big ship small ship rule?
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What big ship small ship rule? Motorized vessels follow the same rules regardless if it is a yacht or a oil tanker.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

RetiredUSN said:
The hacking theory belongs in the CT forum.


Busy channels are a nightmare for a lot of captains

The Officer Of The Deck and the Junior Officer Of The Deck should have been on the bridge wings, and using the feedback from the lookouts. The radar watch should have been distancing the nearby ships and reporting the bearing and range to the OOD. The OOD evidently was not asking for enough information, or was blowing off the information from his/her watch standers.
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That's just on the Navy ship. Both ships should have had standing watches and further both watches should have been paying FAR more attention than they were, especially considering how congested and busy that seaway is. This accident was wholly preventable and inexcusable. Dereliction of duty for the watch standers should be the least charges brought. The book needs to be thrown and hard. Harsh examples need to be made. People are getting lax and that is getting people killed.
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

katzgar said:
The McClain reported a loss of steering 3 minutes before the accident.
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Has that been confirmed and by whom?
 
Re: Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain col

RetiredUSN said:
What big ship small ship rule? Motorized vessels follow the same rules regardless if it is a yacht or a oil tanker.
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So the yacht doesn't have to yield to the oil tanker?
 
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