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Thread: Military Officers Right To Disobey Trump Nuclear Issues & War

  1. #311
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    Re: Military Officers Right To Disobey Trump Nuclear Issues & War

    Quote Originally Posted by Fledermaus View Post
    I think he might piddle himself if he knew 1st LT and Capt are basically automatic if one doesn't screw up big time.

    Paygrade O-2
    Army 1st Lieutenant Rank Insignia
    1st Lieutenant (1LT)

    1LT Rank Description: The 1st Lieutenant typically begins leading specialized weapons platoons or selected as an Executive Officer for a company (110 to 140 soldiers), assisting the company commander.
    Promotion Requirements: Must have 18 months TIG as a 2nd Lieutenant (hence 18 months TIS as well). Almost 100 percent of officers meeting TIS/TIG requirements will be promoted to First Lieutenant.

    Paygrade O-3
    Army Captain Rank Insignia
    Captain (CPT)

    CPT Rank Description: A Captain is placed in command of a company (ranging from 62 to 190 soldiers) and is assisted by a First Sergeant. Captains also serve as staff officers at the battalion level.
    Promotion Requirements: Must have 2 years TIG as a First Lieutenant. TIS fluctuates based on needs of the Army but is typically 4 years. Nearly 100 percent of officers meeting TIS/TIG requirements will be promoted to Captain.


    Army-Portal.com - Army Officer Ranks and Promotion Requirements

    Nice kindergarten colors Fledermaus.

    You don't read or you have zero memory Fledermaus. Or you are simply a rightwinger who ignores what he doesn't like to demand (repeatedly) that what had been presented be presented again. All three no doubt, but the third fact is hugely prevalent over there by the rightwing.

    I discussed the Army junior officer promotion system as it was during the time I was in, 1966-1970. For your benefit, here is the post to the thread, post #604. The following is my lightly edited for word count post in reply to Renae, yet another dim bulb over there. I have now highlighted the major points...


    Your confusion about the junior commissioned officer rank and promotion is understandable.

    During the Cold War an Army officer commissioned out of Rotc (or USMA) enjoyed a four year promotion schedule of 1-1-2 (one-one-two obviously). You of course see where this goes. That is, after one year as 2LT you got promoted to 1LT. After one year as 1LT you got promoted to Captain. You spent the second two years as captain (O-3). We joked that if you didn't want to be promoted the only way to avoid it wuz to go awol. (Now there's a gone term). It was an inferior system that got changed overnight during my final two years and after I'd got my captain's bars exactly on schedule. All of us in the Army got the new bar(s) exactly on the date of commission.

    The new promotion schedule was based on months rather than year. So the year numeric of 1-1-2 became 18 months, 18 months -- 12 months. Still however officers themselves continued the feedback that they weren't getting enough time in grade to be confident when moving on to the next grade -- in general of course, but predominantly for sure. After Vietnam, Army reinstated the yearly system but with radically different numbers and predicate: 2-2. Two years as 2LT and two years as 1LT. So by the new improved scheme officers commissioned out of Rotc or USMA did not see captain until they were into serious shaving.

    The schedule has fluctuated since then as well. It went to 3-3, or three years as 2LT and three years as 1LT.
    Then it was put back to 2-2. Last time I looked it was at 3-3 again (but I don't look often). There are of course many variables affecting the subaltern's time in grade of the moment, but the one thingy for sure is that the time of 1-1-2 is kaput and it is long kaput. Bravo. I say bravo despite myself having benefited hugely from the controlled greased lightning junior officer promotion system in effect during my time in The Old Guard. Because I well know -- as virtually every officer knew -- the zip-zoom system of promotion put you with one foot in quicksand and the other foot in the air. Double bravo.
    Last edited by Tangmo; 07-18-17 at 07:47 AM.



    You picked me up back then on the single bold font word "subaltern" which you objected to for no good reason whatsoever. You forgot however or you ignored it. You are all over the place saying anything at any time, hence the screwball post you made above. I am myself consistent and you have found nothing inconsistent in my statements about my active duty honorable military service because I know what my life is and what the fact are. Even several decades later.

    One's military experience of any nature never goes away eh. Some of it continues to seem like just yesterday or last week eh. Which by me is fine. I was honored to serve in The Old Guard as every Old Guardsman is and always continues to be. It is a rare honor and privilege and it is viewed by all Old Guardsmen with only a fondness and pride.

    Eat sh!t and die Fledermaus.
    Last edited by Tangmo; 08-21-17 at 11:49 PM. Reason: Fledermaus head explodes

  2. #312
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    Re: Military Officers Right To Disobey Trump Nuclear Issues & War

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Nice kindergarten colors Fledermaus.

    You don't read or you have zero memory Fledermaus. Or you are simply a rightwinger who ignores what he doesn't like to demand (repeatedly) that what had been presented be presented again. All three no doubt, but the third fact is hugely prevalent over there by the rightwing.

    I discussed the Army junior officer promotion system as it was during the time I was in, 1966-1970. For your benefit, here is the post to the thread, post #604. The following is my lightly edited for word count post in reply to Renae, yet another dim bulb over there. I have now highlighted the major points...


    Your confusion about the junior commissioned officer rank and promotion is understandable.

    During the Cold War an Army officer commissioned out of Rotc (or USMA) enjoyed a four year promotion schedule of 1-1-2 (one-one-two obviously). You of course see where this goes. That is, after one year as 2LT you got promoted to 1LT. After one year as 1LT you got promoted to Captain. You spent the second two years as captain (O-3). We joked that if you didn't want to be promoted the only way to avoid it wuz to go awol. (Now there's a gone term). It was an inferior system that got changed overnight during my final two years and after I'd got my captain's bars exactly on schedule. All of us in the Army got the new bar(s) exactly on the date of commission.

    The new promotion schedule was based on months rather than year. So the year numeric of 1-1-2 became 18 months, 18 months -- 12 months. Still however officers themselves continued the feedback that they weren't getting enough time in grade to be confident when moving on to the next grade -- in general of course, but predominantly for sure. After Vietnam, Army reinstated the yearly system but with radically different numbers and predicate: 2-2. Two years as 2LT and two years as 1LT. So by the new improved scheme officers commissioned out of Rotc or USMA did not see captain until they were into serious shaving.

    The schedule has fluctuated since then as well. It went to 3-3, or three years as 2LT and three years as 1LT.
    Then it was put back to 2-2. Last time I looked it was at 3-3 again (but I don't look often). There are of course many variables affecting the subaltern's time in grade of the moment, but the one thingy for sure is that the time of 1-1-2 is kaput and it is long kaput. Bravo. I say bravo despite myself having benefited hugely from the controlled greased lightning junior officer promotion system in effect during my time in The Old Guard. Because I well know -- as virtually every officer knew -- the zip-zoom system of promotion put you with one foot in quicksand and the other foot in the air. Double bravo.
    Last edited by Tangmo; 07-18-17 at 07:47 AM.



    You picked me up back then on the single bold font word "subaltern" which you objected to for no good reason whatsoever. You forgot however or you ignored it. You are all over the place saying anything at any time, hence the screwball post you made above. I am myself consistent and you have found nothing inconsistent in my statements about my active duty honorable military service because I know what my life is and what the fact are. Even several decades later.

    One's military experience of any nature never goes away eh. Some of it continues to seem like just yesterday or last week eh. Which by me is fine. I was honored to serve in The Old Guard as every Old Guardsman is and always continues to be. It is a rare honor and privilege and it is viewed by all Old Guardsmen with only a fondness and pride.

    Eat sh!t and die Fledermaus.
    Poor tangmo. Continually misses the point of every conversation. Bragging about how fast you got promoted when those promotions were virtually guaranteed as long as you didn't majorly screw up is about the thinking ability we have come to expect from you. How sad. You are not even bright enough tho realize you just probes his point.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Military Officers Right To Disobey Trump Nuclear Issues & War

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Nice kindergarten colors Fledermaus.

    You don't read or you have zero memory Fledermaus. Or you are simply a rightwinger who ignores what he doesn't like to demand (repeatedly) that what had been presented be presented again. All three no doubt, but the third fact is hugely prevalent over there by the rightwing.

    I discussed the Army junior officer promotion system as it was during the time I was in, 1966-1970. For your benefit, here is the post to the thread, post #604. The following is my lightly edited for word count post in reply to Renae, yet another dim bulb over there. I have now highlighted the major points...

    Your confusion about the junior commissioned officer rank and promotion is understandable.

    During the Cold War an Army officer commissioned out of Rotc (or USMA) enjoyed a four year promotion schedule of 1-1-2 (one-one-two obviously). You of course see where this goes. That is, after one year as 2LT you got promoted to 1LT. After one year as 1LT you got promoted to Captain. You spent the second two years as captain (O-3). We joked that if you didn't want to be promoted the only way to avoid it wuz to go awol. (Now there's a gone term). It was an inferior system that got changed overnight during my final two years and after I'd got my captain's bars exactly on schedule. All of us in the Army got the new bar(s) exactly on the date of commission.

    The new promotion schedule was based on months rather than year. So the year numeric of 1-1-2 became 18 months, 18 months -- 12 months. Still however officers themselves continued the feedback that they weren't getting enough time in grade to be confident when moving on to the next grade -- in general of course, but predominantly for sure. After Vietnam, Army reinstated the yearly system but with radically different numbers and predicate: 2-2. Two years as 2LT and two years as 1LT. So by the new improved scheme officers commissioned out of Rotc or USMA did not see captain until they were into serious shaving.

    The schedule has fluctuated since then as well. It went to 3-3, or three years as 2LT and three years as 1LT.
    Then it was put back to 2-2. Last time I looked it was at 3-3 again (but I don't look often). There are of course many variables affecting the subaltern's time in grade of the moment, but the one thingy for sure is that the time of 1-1-2 is kaput and it is long kaput. Bravo. I say bravo despite myself having benefited hugely from the controlled greased lightning junior officer promotion system in effect during my time in The Old Guard. Because I well know -- as virtually every officer knew -- the zip-zoom system of promotion put you with one foot in quicksand and the other foot in the air. Double bravo.
    Last edited by Tangmo; 07-18-17 at 07:47 AM.



    You picked me up back then on the single bold font word "subaltern" which you objected to for no good reason whatsoever. You forgot however or you ignored it. You are all over the place saying anything at any time, hence the screwball post you made above. I am myself consistent and you have found nothing inconsistent in my statements about my active duty honorable military service because I know what my life is and what the fact are. Even several decades later.

    One's military experience of any nature never goes away eh. Some of it continues to seem like just yesterday or last week eh. Which by me is fine. I was honored to serve in The Old Guard as every Old Guardsman is and always continues to be. It is a rare honor and privilege and it is viewed by all Old Guardsmen with only a fondness and pride.

    Eat sh!t and die Fledermaus.
    Tsk, Tsk....

    You really don't understand the point Tangmo.

    Flew right over your head. Like the SSTs of old. Too high. Too fast. And miles out of your grasp.

    All one has to do as a new butter-bar is keep his nose clean and 1st LT and Capt are pretty much guaranteed.

    Near 100% promotion rate. Just like PFCs and Lance Corporals. And demanding the same level of respect.

    It is a system made for slackers and do-nothings.

    So, nattering about being infantry by someone who never performed as infantry and nattering about promotions by someone who's promotions were practically assured.


    And subalterns? Which of the British Colonies are you speaking of?
    Last edited by Fledermaus; Yesterday at 12:32 AM. Reason: Tangmo has no clue.
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  4. #314
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    Re: Military Officers Right To Disobey Trump Nuclear Issues & War

    Let me start by saying that I'm a retired 13A. In the military, it is true that officers are not required to follow an unlawful order. But what is an unlawful order? Who gets to determine what is lawful and what is not lawful? If an officer refuses to follow an order, his or her career is pretty much over. While some may applaud that officer, that isn't going to be how the pentagon sees it. That individual's career is over. You do not second guess the President.

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