Military Officers Right To Disobey Trump Nuclear Issues & War

Fledermaus · Sep 25, 2017

Tangmo said:
Fledermaus Groundhog Day

I expected you to pick up on that line about the Iraqi Republican Guard given you are predictable in your glib and trite posts. Fact is I have only mentioned RG several times and only in passing. A good for instance is that I mentioned the RG in Kuwait high tailed it to escape the Marines but got caught by USAF in Iraq on the Highway of Death to make up for it. Marines in Kuwait ended up fighting the heat as much as anything else. (OMG!)

Youse knowing and false, concocted, statements of the past several pages are worse than all the false and mangled statements you'd made previously, over the ten months of your fiasco initiated and undertaken here. It is a clear indicator of how youse have become desperate and are on the ropes. Youse thereby confirm and validate my statement I've made consistently over the past ten months that time is not on your side in this mad campaign you started with USMC Gunnery Sergeant bluster and that now has been reduced to a desperate wimpering.

So I mean to preclude any one particular poster putting forward his own USMC high intensity PR account of the Marines in Kuwait in February 1991....

On 24 February 1991, the 1st and 2nd Marine Divisions, and the 1st Light Armored Infantry Battalion crossed into Kuwait and headed toward Kuwait City. They encountered trenches, barbed wire, and minefields. However, these positions were poorly defended, and were overrun in the first few hours. Several tank battles took place, but apart from that, coalition troops encountered minimal resistance, as most Iraqi troops surrendered. The general pattern was that the Iraqis would put up a short fight before surrendering. However, Iraqi air defenses shot down nine US aircraft. Meanwhile, forces from Arab states advanced into Kuwait from the east, encountering little resistance and suffering few casualties.

t was feared that the Iraqi Republican Guard would escape into Iraq before it could be destroyed. It was decided to send British armored forces into Kuwait 15 hours ahead of schedule, and to send US forces after the Republican Guard. The coalition advance was preceded by a heavy artillery and rocket barrage, after which 150,000 troops and 1,500 tanks began their advance. Iraqi forces in Kuwait counterattacked against US troops, acting on a direct order from Saddam Hussein himself. Despite the intense combat, the Americans repulsed the Iraqis and continued to advance towards Kuwait City.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War#Kuwait.27s_liberation

Despite the intense combat. So hey, it wuz a war here and there eh. The bottom line is that numerous units of Iraqi Republican Guards in Kuwait evaded the huge Marine Expeditionary Forces hustling into Kuwait to in fact flee with a swarm of tanks and heavy artillery. (OMG!)

Duplicate BS is duplicated BS.

Tangmo · Sep 25, 2017

Fledermaus Groundhog Day

Fledermaus said:
More intentional ignorance of what happened.

You either don't read your sources or ypu are intentionally ignoring what is said.

Your attempts to paint Desert Storm in particular and the Gulf War I in general as failures is wonderfully debunked by your own sources.

I suggest you go read your prior sources for comprehension. You are currently making a fool out of yourself.

Better yet. Keep going. Napoleon once said "Do not interrupt an enemy when he is making a mistake".

Daniel L. Davis is a retired U.S. Army colonel. In 1991 Col. Davis was a 2LT in the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment of the VII Armored Corps which had been chosen by Gen. Schwarzkofp to drive directly against Republican Guard units in northern Kuwait on day one...

Did America Really Lose the First Gulf War?

I remember one particular event where a company commander was awarded a Silver Star for gallantry in action, when he should have considered himself lucky not to have been relieved. He had defeated his opponent in combat, but the tactics he used were horrible. Against an even marginally capable foe, his actions would likely have resulted in his unit suffering substantial casualties and potentially failing the mission. Instead, no U.S. troopers were hurt and he was lauded as a hero.

Don’t get me wrong. Because the U.S. soldiers were so well trained at the crew level, and because the American combat vehicles and weapons were of such high quality, tactical leaders could have used even the most foolish of tactics and still have won overwhelmingly.

By implication, people even today appear to believe that the praise heaped on the United States in the 1990s still holds true today, and that all future wars America fights can be won just as handily. That is most assuredly not correct. If Russia and China were materially weaker than the United States in 1991, the gap has been dramatically shortened, and in some key ways eliminated. Today, Russia continues to improve its major combat equipment, has reorganized its forces into more effective units, and continues to train its forces to effectively fight U.S. troops. China likewise has spent two full decades of military modernization, imposed substantial reformation, and continues to conduct tough, realistic field and computer simulation training. These troops realize that if they were to go against the United States, they’d be in for the fight of their lives. They focus and train accordingly.

America’s senior military leaders and most opinion leaders believe we would definitely defeat anyone we faced, and the only question would be how rapidly or slowly victory would come. The idea that we could conceivably lose a fight is given serious consideration by a rare few. Such misplaced arrogance leads to suboptimal training and insufficient focus. The imbalance in outlook and focus between the U.S. forces and those of China and Russia could have disastrous results on future battlefields for U.S. troops.

Douglas Macgregor, who was the operations officer of Second Squadron 2ACR during the Battle of 73 Easting, wrote in his newest book Margin of Victory that despite the tactical victory we achieved, “It is another reminder that without effective strategic direction, battles such as 73 Easting can be won” on the tactical level and lost at the strategic level. Unless more members of the military go back and learn the right lessons from Desert Storm, we may find ourselves losing a future war that we should otherwise win handily.

Did America Really Lose the First Gulf War? | The National Interest

So beware of delusions over there and learn to deal with an obvious inferiority complex that demands that desert mirages be taken as literal truth.

Colonel Davis added....

On February 24 my commander, then Captain H.R. McMaster (now a lieutenant general), made a radio call to all battle stations of Eagle Troop: “Gentlemen, the moment we’ve all been waiting for has arrived. We have been given the order to attack.” Again, there was nothing like fear among most of us troopers. It was closer to elation.

The initial breach across the border defenses proved to be anticlimactic, because after substantial artillery bombardment with 155-millimeter shells and multiple air strikes, the engineer bulldozers that plowed their way through the dirt berms and defensive works revealed no enemy troops defending the other side. We spent the rest of that day through the following night mainly conducting long, intensely boring road marches to get to the northern part of Kuwait. There were a few skirmishes against Iraqi armored patrols, but nothing of note.

Fledermaus · Sep 25, 2017

Tangmo said:
Fledermaus Groundhog Day

Daniel L. Davis is a retired U.S. Army colonel. In 1991 Col. Davis was a 2LT in the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment of the VII Armored Corps which had been chosen by Gen. Schwarzkofp to drive directly against Republican Guard units in northern Kuwait on day one...

Did America Really Lose the First Gulf War?

I remember one particular event where a company commander was awarded a Silver Star for gallantry in action, when he should have considered himself lucky not to have been relieved. He had defeated his opponent in combat, but the tactics he used were horrible. Against an even marginally capable foe, his actions would likely have resulted in his unit suffering substantial casualties and potentially failing the mission. Instead, no U.S. troopers were hurt and he was lauded as a hero.

Don’t get me wrong. Because the U.S. soldiers were so well trained at the crew level, and because the American combat vehicles and weapons were of such high quality, tactical leaders could have used even the most foolish of tactics and still have won overwhelmingly.

By implication, people even today appear to believe that the praise heaped on the United States in the 1990s still holds true today, and that all future wars America fights can be won just as handily. That is most assuredly not correct. If Russia and China were materially weaker than the United States in 1991, the gap has been dramatically shortened, and in some key ways eliminated. Today, Russia continues to improve its major combat equipment, has reorganized its forces into more effective units, and continues to train its forces to effectively fight U.S. troops. China likewise has spent two full decades of military modernization, imposed substantial reformation, and continues to conduct tough, realistic field and computer simulation training. These troops realize that if they were to go against the United States, they’d be in for the fight of their lives. They focus and train accordingly.

America’s senior military leaders and most opinion leaders believe we would definitely defeat anyone we faced, and the only question would be how rapidly or slowly victory would come. The idea that we could conceivably lose a fight is given serious consideration by a rare few. Such misplaced arrogance leads to suboptimal training and insufficient focus. The imbalance in outlook and focus between the U.S. forces and those of China and Russia could have disastrous results on future battlefields for U.S. troops.

Douglas Macgregor, who was the operations officer of Second Squadron 2ACR during the Battle of 73 Easting, wrote in his newest book Margin of Victory that despite the tactical victory we achieved, “It is another reminder that without effective strategic direction, battles such as 73 Easting can be won” on the tactical level and lost at the strategic level. Unless more members of the military go back and learn the right lessons from Desert Storm, we may find ourselves losing a future war that we should otherwise win handily.

Did America Really Lose the First Gulf War? | The National Interest

So beware of delusions over there and learn to deal with an obvious inferiority complex that demands that desert mirages be taken as literal truth.

Colonel Davis added....

On February 24 my commander, then Captain H.R. McMaster (now a lieutenant general), made a radio call to all battle stations of Eagle Troop: “Gentlemen, the moment we’ve all been waiting for has arrived. We have been given the order to attack.” Again, there was nothing like fear among most of us troopers. It was closer to elation.

The initial breach across the border defenses proved to be anticlimactic, because after substantial artillery bombardment with 155-millimeter shells and multiple air strikes, the engineer bulldozers that plowed their way through the dirt berms and defensive works revealed no enemy troops defending the other side. We spent the rest of that day through the following night mainly conducting long, intensely boring road marches to get to the northern part of Kuwait. There were a few skirmishes against Iraqi armored patrols, but nothing of note.

And more regurgitating...

Gulf War I was such a complete victory that military men are concerned that people IN FUTURE WARS will expect the same outcome.

Tangmo · Sep 25, 2017

Fledermaus Groundhog Day

Fledermaus said:
Stop lying.

We noted Warrant Officer was missing when you stated TWO LEVELS of military.

No one cares if you mentioned Warrant Officers elsewhere.

I have pointed out on this page and in a direct reply to your post along with the rightwing major obliquely retired that Warrant Officers are commissioned officers. Which places warrant officers in the officer group of the two groups of your world of the "military man." The other group is, as I have pointed out, Enlisted Personnel to include Ironbrain NCO sergeants such as you and your notorious career failage.

Fledermaus Sergeant Ironbrain Fledermaus. Sergeant Rote N. Recitation.

All your posts over ten months display for all to know that you as Lifer Sergeant Ironbrain are deliberate, calculated, not serious. Which no doubt was a significant factor in why you were not promoted in USMC for most of the second decade of your 20 slacker years in. Sergeant I.M.A. Coaster.

The Junior Gunnery Sergeant Fledermaus: Not serious in the USMC as an Ordinance NCO on USN ships and not serious at DP where you have had your feared and predicted shipwreck. We see how the two connect in your present fat retirement in California aka: the Land of Milk and Honey and Fledermaus. The guy at the front of the civilian line with his hand out.

The Lifer Sergeant Slouch Fledermaus -- first in the dole line, first in slacking and first in the hearts of career coasters to retirement everywhere.

Tangmo · Sep 25, 2017

Fledermaus Groundhog Day

Fledermaus said:
And more regurgitating...

Gulf War I was such a complete victory that military men are concerned that people IN FUTURE WARS will expect the same outcome.

You missed the thesis of the argument by Colonel Davis retired. So it makes no difference whether you read or don't read the multiplicity of qualified expert veterans cause the NCO alleged mind doesn't get it either way.

Add to that and no offense intended but as has been pointed out by a DS veteran, in 1991 the U.S. fought Arabs. Same is true concerning 2003 to the present.

AVF motto is like Burger King: Have it your way.

Fledermaus · Sep 25, 2017

Tangmo said:
Fledermaus Groundhog Day

I have pointed out on this page and in a direct reply to your post along with the rightwing major obliquely retired that Warrant Officers are commissioned officers. Which places warrant officers in the officer group of the two groups of your world of the "military man." The other group is, as I have pointed out, Enlisted Personnel to include Ironbrain NCO sergeants such as you and your notorious career failage.

Fledermaus Sergeant Ironbrain Fledermaus. Sergeant Rote N. Recitation.

All your posts over ten months display for all to know that you as Lifer Sergeant Ironbrain are deliberate, calculated, not serious. Which no doubt was a significant factor in why you were not promoted in USMC for most of the second decade of your 20 slacker years in. Sergeant I.M.A. Coaster.

The Junior Gunnery Sergeant Fledermaus: Not serious in the USMC as an Ordinance NCO on USN ships and not serious at DP where you have had your feared and predicted shipwreck. We see how the two connect in your present fat retirement in California aka: the Land of Milk and Honey and Fledermaus. The guy at the front of the civilian line with his hand out.

The Lifer Sergeant Slouch Fledermaus -- first in the dole line, first in slacking and first in the hearts of career coasters to retirement everywhere.

All that blathering (and international ignorance, and ad hominem) rather than admitring you effed up.

Getting to be childish.

Fledermaus · Sep 25, 2017

Tangmo said:
Fledermaus Groundhog Day

You missed the thesis of the argument by Colonel Davis retired. So it makes no difference whether you read or don't read the multiplicity of qualified expert veterans cause the NCO alleged mind doesn't get it either way.

Add to that and no offense intended but as has been pointed out by a DS veteran, in 1991 the U.S. fought Arabs. Same is true concerning 2003 to the present.

AVF motto is like Burger King: Have it your way.

I read it Tangmo, and UNLIKE you I understand what was said.

Was or was not Gulf War I a victory?

According to YOUR SOURCES it was.

Fledermaus · Sep 25, 2017

Tangmo said:
Fledermaus Groundhog Day

I have pointed out on this page and in a direct reply to your post along with the rightwing major obliquely retired that Warrant Officers are commissioned officers. Which places warrant officers in the officer group of the two groups of your world of the "military man." The other group is, as I have pointed out, Enlisted Personnel to include Ironbrain NCO sergeants such as you and your notorious career failage.

Fledermaus Sergeant Ironbrain Fledermaus. Sergeant Rote N. Recitation.

All your posts over ten months display for all to know that you as Lifer Sergeant Ironbrain are deliberate, calculated, not serious. Which no doubt was a significant factor in why you were not promoted in USMC for most of the second decade of your 20 slacker years in. Sergeant I.M.A. Coaster.

The Junior Gunnery Sergeant Fledermaus: Not serious in the USMC as an Ordinance NCO on USN ships and not serious at DP where you have had your feared and predicted shipwreck. We see how the two connect in your present fat retirement in California aka: the Land of Milk and Honey and Fledermaus. The guy at the front of the civilian line with his hand out.

The Lifer Sergeant Slouch Fledermaus -- first in the dole line, first in slacking and first in the hearts of career coasters to retirement everywhere.

Tangmo,

I've asked a dozen or two times. What exactly do you imagine I am getting from California. All the references to the "Public teat" and the "dole" but you can't explain.

Perhaps you should support or retract.

Tangmo · Sep 25, 2017

Fledermaus Groundhog Day.

Fledermaus said:
All that blathering (and international ignorance, and ad hominem) rather than admitring you effed up.

Getting to be childish.

You haven't called me "child" or "childish" for more than two months now. At least it seems to be about two or three months.

And I stopped calling you "gunny" or "Gunnery Sergeant" cause I found out from your posts you are a dud.

You still haven't conceived of nor can you produce an argument. You instead do the mindless NCO drill here at DP.

Fledermaus · Sep 25, 2017

Tangmo said:
Fledermaus Groundhog Day.

You haven't called me "child" or "childish" for more than two months now. At least it seems to be about two or three months.

And I stopped calling you "gunny" or "Gunnery Sergeant" cause I found out from your posts you are a dud.

You still haven't conceived of nor can you produce an argument. You instead do the mindless NCO drill here at DP.

Tangmo,

I've asked a dozen or two times. What exactly do you imagine I am getting from California. All the references to the "Public teat" and the "dole" but you can't explain.

Perhaps you should support or retract.

Helix · Sep 25, 2017

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