• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Military Reciprocity Love/Respect?

Rexedgar

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
63,095
Reaction score
52,768
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This post is intended for veterans and those still on active duty. My family has a long association with the US miltary. There are multiple graduates of both West Point and Annapolis. Before I served, I learned many traditions and history related to the military as a small child. The present occupant of 1600 Penn. Ave. seems to have only "served" in a military school in New York. I have not looked into his family's contribution to military service. I do not post this to cast any insults or try to divide the responders along the all to familiar lines to this board.
According to my research (minor), Donald Trump was deferred more than once for service in the military, due to medical issues. He has been recorded as "serving" while chasing women and not contracting any "social" diseases. During the recent campaign, then Candidate Trump made statements not consistent with President Trump's stated stance on military matters now. In no particular order, John McCain was insulted, the Khan family, (KIA Marine Officer), was insulted and Candidate Trump claimed his knowledge was superior to that of the generals in regard to ISIS. There are probably more, but the reader will get the idea and is welcome to research the topic further.
Since the swearing in, President Trump professes great admiration and respect for the military. Shortly after the inauguration, there was a mission approved involving Navy Special Ops servicemen. When asked about the death of one of the members, the President "washed his hands" of any responsibility for the man's fate. "The Generals lost Ryan" is what I remember him saying. My question deals with the relationship of the President and the military. Now the President does not miss an opportunity to profess his love and respect for the military. By military, I am referring to Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force and Coast Guard personnel regardless of rank. Is the President's affection and admiration a two way conduit. Regardless if the answer is positive or negative, please help me understand the reasoning. What drives the reasoning? Thank you for your service. (When I hear this, it sounds so lame, but when I run into active military, it's all I can think of. And if I can buy them a drink or a sandwich.) Thanks for reading this far...........................
 
Rexedgar said:
This post is intended for veterans and those still on active duty. My family has a long association with the US miltary. There are multiple graduates of both West Point and Annapolis. Before I served, I learned many traditions and history related to the military as a small child. The present occupant of 1600 Penn. Ave. seems to have only "served" in a military school in New York. I have not looked into his family's contribution to military service. I do not post this to cast any insults or try to divide the responders along the all to familiar lines to this board.
According to my research (minor), Donald Trump was deferred more than once for service in the military, due to medical issues. He has been recorded as "serving" while chasing women and not contracting any "social" diseases. During the recent campaign, then Candidate Trump made statements not consistent with President Trump's stated stance on military matters now. In no particular order, John McCain was insulted, the Khan family, (KIA Marine Officer), was insulted and Candidate Trump claimed his knowledge was superior to that of the generals in regard to ISIS. There are probably more, but the reader will get the idea and is welcome to research the topic further.
Since the swearing in, President Trump professes great admiration and respect for the military. Shortly after the inauguration, there was a mission approved involving Navy Special Ops servicemen. When asked about the death of one of the members, the President "washed his hands" of any responsibility for the man's fate. "The Generals lost Ryan" is what I remember him saying. My question deals with the relationship of the President and the military. Now the President does not miss an opportunity to profess his love and respect for the military. By military, I am referring to Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force and Coast Guard personnel regardless of rank. Is the President's affection and admiration a two way conduit. Regardless if the answer is positive or negative, please help me understand the reasoning. What drives the reasoning? Thank you for your service. (When I hear this, it sounds so lame, but when I run into active military, it's all I can think of. And if I can buy them a drink or a sandwich.) Thanks for reading this far...........................
Click to expand...

He doesn't sound the kind that could rely on tha military in a coupe d'état.

But we should watch him just the same.
 
I've been out of the military for more than 20 years, so I don't have much of a finger on the pulse of the military anymore but here are some articles about the issue that range from Trump as a candidate to Trump as President.

Donald Trump wins big with the military: Daily News analysis - NY Daily News

‘Total respect!’ Troops show their love for Trump at Army-Navy game; check out the video, photos | Conservative News Today

And, if you like polls:

98 percent of Republican military veterans approve of Donald Trump: Poll - Washington Times
 
joG said:
He doesn't sound the kind that could rely on tha military in a coupe d'état.

But we should watch him just the same.
Click to expand...

My thoughts are that it's somewhat likely that a silent coup has already taken place. Depending upon definition of terms, maybe even to some extent before Trump took office. I think Ike might have been alluding to such a possible coup.
 
Rexedgar said:
This post is intended for veterans and those still on active duty. My family has a long association with the US miltary. There are multiple graduates of both West Point and Annapolis. Before I served, I learned many traditions and history related to the military as a small child. The present occupant of 1600 Penn. Ave. seems to have only "served" in a military school in New York. I have not looked into his family's contribution to military service. I do not post this to cast any insults or try to divide the responders along the all to familiar lines to this board.
According to my research (minor), Donald Trump was deferred more than once for service in the military, due to medical issues. He has been recorded as "serving" while chasing women and not contracting any "social" diseases. During the recent campaign, then Candidate Trump made statements not consistent with President Trump's stated stance on military matters now. In no particular order, John McCain was insulted, the Khan family, (KIA Marine Officer), was insulted and Candidate Trump claimed his knowledge was superior to that of the generals in regard to ISIS. There are probably more, but the reader will get the idea and is welcome to research the topic further.
Since the swearing in, President Trump professes great admiration and respect for the military. Shortly after the inauguration, there was a mission approved involving Navy Special Ops servicemen. When asked about the death of one of the members, the President "washed his hands" of any responsibility for the man's fate. "The Generals lost Ryan" is what I remember him saying. My question deals with the relationship of the President and the military. Now the President does not miss an opportunity to profess his love and respect for the military. By military, I am referring to Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force and Coast Guard personnel regardless of rank. Is the President's affection and admiration a two way conduit. Regardless if the answer is positive or negative, please help me understand the reasoning. What drives the reasoning? Thank you for your service. (When I hear this, it sounds so lame, but when I run into active military, it's all I can think of. And if I can buy them a drink or a sandwich.) Thanks for reading this far...........................
Click to expand...

As a current active duty member I can say that the vast majority of the people I work with don't share your obvious hatred of Trump. And since they don't suffer from that they don't see things with the same bias as you do. And that is something that is obviously clouding your vision
A perfect example. You claiming Trump washed his hands of any responsibility in the SEALs death that you brought up. First your bias is causing you to add extra meaning that was not expressed in any of Trump's statements. You are reading into them what you want to hear because you hate the man.

Finally as a member of the US special operations community I can assure you that neither I nor any of my teammates blame Trump for his death. We all know the risks of our profession and accept them. The reason we spend countless hours training is because we hope that someday we will be allowed to do or jobs. If some of the most dedicated and highly trained members of the US miltary planned, asked for authorization, and excecuted a mission it is because it is something that they felt was worth the risk and accepted that risk for. To try and play polotics and blame Trump is nothing more them disgusting and shows the extent of your bias.
 
Thoreau72 said:
My thoughts are that it's somewhat likely that a silent coup has already taken place. Depending upon definition of terms, maybe even to some extent before Trump took office. I think Ike might have been alluding to such a possible coup.
Click to expand...

The reason that your thoughts are that way is because you fall for every fairytale CT that has ever been told no matter how little evidence there is for it.

It's sad really but anyone who has spent any time at all on this board realizes that.
 
braindrain said:
As a current active duty member I can say that the vast majority of the people I work with don't share your obvious hatred of Trump. And since they don't suffer from that they don't see things with the same bias as you do. And that is something that is obviously clouding your vision
A perfect example. You claiming Trump washed his hands of any responsibility in the SEALs death that you brought up. First your bias is causing you to add extra meaning that was not expressed in any of Trump's statements. You are reading into them what you want to hear because you hate the man.

Finally as a member of the US special operations community I can assure you that neither I nor any of my teammates blame Trump for his death. We all know the risks of our profession and accept them. The reason we spend countless hours training is because we hope that someday we will be allowed to do or jobs. If some of the most dedicated and highly trained members of the US miltary planned, asked for authorization, and excecuted a mission it is because it is something that they felt was worth the risk and accepted that risk for. To try and play polotics and blame Trump is nothing more them disgusting and shows the extent of your bias.
Click to expand...

Was what trump said about McCain ok? How about the Kahn family? If you have a mission that fails do you publically call out your team members?

Who here really has the bias?
 
vegas giants said:
Was what trump said about McCain ok? How about the Kahn family? If you have a mission that fails do you publically call out your team members?

Who here really has the bias?
Click to expand...
What he said about McCain was disgusting.

Every comment I have seen from Trump attacks the Khan families polotics and not their sons service and that was only after the Khan family for involve by attacking Trump. That said I admit that is not a topic I followed closely so I may have missed something.

Now that we have that out of the way how about you actually address anything I actually said or will you bias simply not allow you to do that.
 
braindrain said:
As a current active duty member I can say that the vast majority of the people I work with don't share your obvious hatred of Trump. And since they don't suffer from that they don't see things with the same bias as you do. And that is something that is obviously clouding your vision
A perfect example. You claiming Trump washed his hands of any responsibility in the SEALs death that you brought up. First your bias is causing you to add extra meaning that was not expressed in any of Trump's statements. You are reading into them what you want to hear because you hate the man.

Finally as a member of the US special operations community I can assure you that neither I nor any of my teammates blame Trump for his death. We all know the risks of our profession and accept them. The reason we spend countless hours training is because we hope that someday we will be allowed to do or jobs. If some of the most dedicated and highly trained members of the US miltary planned, asked for authorization, and excecuted a mission it is because it is something that they felt was worth the risk and accepted that risk for. To try and play polotics and blame Trump is nothing more them disgusting and shows the extent of your bias.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand my question. If there is a mutual feeling amongst the services for the President's stated admiration and respect, where does it come from given he has been on the world stage, politically, for a little more than two years? You are correct as far as how I feel about our current CinC. I did the best I could to try be neutral. As far as the Navy SEAL, of course it is not the President's fault, as he was not in actual control of the mission. His public statement is on the record. If you can point out any inaccuracies in my examples, please enlighten me. My post is not meant to be a back and forth on the politics of the day. There are plenty of other places for that. Other posters are taking my question as to what the temperature is as far as military coup, that is not the case. Thank you for your service.
 
braindrain said:
What he said about McCain was disgusting.

Every comment I have seen from Trump attacks the Khan families polotics and not their sons service and that was only after the Khan family for involve by attacking Trump. That said I admit that is not a topic I followed closely so I may have missed something.

Now that we have that out of the way how about you actually address anything I actually said or will you bias simply not allow you to do that.
Click to expand...

I addressed everything you said. It is YOUR bias that blinds you. Trump should NEVER have called out his staff on the death of that SEAL. That is also disgusting. I'm not saying Trump has done a bad job with the military so far (though that transgender tweet is ridiculous). I am saying he has insulted those that have served. He is the commander in chief and he needs to act like it
 
Rexedgar said:
You misunderstand my question. If there is a mutual feeling amongst the services for the President's stated admiration and respect, where does it come from given he has been on the world stage, politically, for a little more than two years? You are correct as far as how I feel about our current CinC. I did the best I could to try be neutral. As far as the Navy SEAL, of course it is not the President's fault, as he was not in actual control of the mission. His public statement is on the record. If you can point out any inaccuracies in my examples, please enlighten me. My post is not meant to be a back and forth on the politics of the day. There are plenty of other places for that. Other posters are taking my question as to what the temperature is as far as military coup, that is not the case. Thank you for your service.
Click to expand...

The fact that the best you could do was putting words in his mouth that he never said and reading meaning into his statements that were never implied is rather telling.

Show where he said he washed his hands of any responsibility or even implied it with regard to the death of the SEAL
 
vegas giants said:
I addressed everything you said. It is YOUR bias that blinds you. Trump should NEVER have called out his staff on the death of that SEAL. That is also disgusting. I'm not saying Trump has done a bad job with the military so far (though that transgender tweet is ridiculous). I am saying he has insulted those that have served. He is the commander in chief and he needs to act like it
Click to expand...

He didn't call them out. That is nothing more then your hatred of Trump clouding your ability to comprehend.
 
braindrain said:
The fact that the best you could do was putting words in his mouth that he never said and reading meaning into his statements that were never implied is rather telling.

Show where he said he washed his hands of any responsibility or even implied it with regard to the death of the SEAL
Click to expand...

Trump passes blame for Yemen raid to his generals: 'They lost Ryan' - Chicago Tribune

There are others, did not want to use WAPO or NYT. Show me where he is not distancing himself from this, "washing hands."

"The Buck Stops Here". Harry S Truman
 
braindrain said:
He didn't call them out. That is nothing more then your hatred of Trump clouding your ability to comprehend.
Click to expand...

He flat out did. This is his quote.

'This was something that was, you know ... they wanted to do and they came to see me and they explained what they wanted to do, the generals, who are very respected,' Trump said in an exclusive interview with the Fox News Channel morning show. 'My generals are the most respected that we've had in many decades.'*
'And they lost Ryan,' the president added.

Would you publically call out a spec ops team member like that in the press?
 
vegas giants said:
He flat out did. This is his quote.

'This was something that was, you know ... they wanted to do and they came to see me and they explained what they wanted to do, the generals, who are very respected,' Trump said in an exclusive interview with the Fox News Channel morning show. 'My generals are the most respected that we've had in many decades.'*
'And they lost Ryan,' the president added.

Would you publically call out a spec ops team member like that in the press?
Click to expand...

What member did he call out. The generals who he said are the most respected. One heck of a call out. The problem is your Haye for Trump doesn't allow you to see anything except what you want to see.
 
braindrain said:
Not a single thing he said in that article was not the truth. Keep trying but maybe take your blinders off. It might help.
Click to expand...

Truth? Would you do it? Would you publically blame a team member in the press? Its disgraceful. How you can not call him out for this is unbelievable. Should he do it again? If any mission fails should he just call out who he wants to blame publically? Is that leadership to you?

Things must have changed a lot since I've been in
 
braindrain said:
What member did he call out. The generals who he said are the most respected. One heck of a call out. The problem is your Haye for Trump doesn't allow you to see anything except what you want to see.
Click to expand...

He called out the generals involved in that mission. Is that the right way to do things? Are you saying he should do that again?
 
braindrain said:
Not a single thing he said in that article was not the truth. Keep trying but maybe take your blinders off. It might help.
Click to expand...

Did the Chicago Tribune get the headline wrong? Let's pivot here. I tried to steer away from where this has gone in the OP. I have a bias as you point out. How about you tell me why you feel the way you do? What has Donald Trump done or said to make you feel good about him having your back?
 
vegas giants said:
He called out the generals involved in that mission. Is that the right way to do things? Are you saying he should do that again?
Click to expand...

He called them out by saying they were the most respected. What an insult.
 
braindrain said:
What blame.
Was the SEAL under their command. Was he lost. Those are facts. That is not blame. In fact it's so much blame he called those people you think he is trashing the most respected generals.

The only thing that has changed is that you are so blinded by your hatred you can't see the truth staring right at you.
Click to expand...
Ok. He should do that everytime. Anytime anyone dies in battle he should call out the team members and generals that got him killed. I mean this is leadership...right? Then he should do it everytime.

The military sure has changed. There was a time you NEVER publically blamed a team member. In private to learn from it...sure. But publically.....that would be considered a huge disgrace.
 
braindrain said:
He called them out by saying they were the most respected. What an insult.
Click to expand...

He said they got a SEAL killed. I guess he should do that everytime now. If a Ranger did that he would be shunned
 
Rexedgar said:
Did the Chicago Tribune get the headline wrong? Let's pivot here. I tried to steer away from where this has gone in the OP. I have a bias as you point out. How about you tell me why you feel the way you do? What has Donald Trump done or said to make you feel good about him having your back?
Click to expand...

I don't feel good about him having my back. No politician including Hillary has the militaries or anyone else's back. They are in it for themselves. If they need to throe you under the bus to help their career that is wjat they do. Every last one.

Just FYI. I didn't vote for Trump and think for the most part he has been a rather ****ty president. I agree with a few of his ideas but not many including his recent banning of transgender people.

The difference is while you are letting you're Hate of Trump tint how you see the world. That is rather obvious from this thread.
 
vegas giants said:
Ok. He should do that everytime. Anytime anyone dies in battle he should call out the team members and generals that got him killed. I mean this is leadership...right? Then he should do it everytime.

The military sure has changed. There was a time you NEVER publically blamed a team member. In private to learn from it...sure. But publically.....that would be considered a huge disgrace.
Click to expand...

What team member did he blame. What was their name. What did he say they did wrong.

Was it the same generals he said were the most respected.

The only disgrace here is the one you are making of yourself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom