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Military Reciprocity Love/Respect?

Perotista said:
In the military, active duty and among military retirees the Democratic Party is seen very anti-military to a majority of vets. It's been that way since Vietnam. Hence the 2-1 margin of Republican over Democrat.

My own personal feelings is I disliked both Trump and Clinton and voted for Johnson.
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And this is pretty much how I see it also.

People have to remember that the last 8 years have been brutal to the military. Huge cutbacks, troop strength has dropped dramatically as has funding. We saw the repeal of DADT (nobody really cared about that in the military), more and more stupid sensitivity training rammed down our throats, and in the final months the idiocy about Transgendered.

Which really pissed off the military, because that was only a political policy, with no research prior to, nor was it talked over with the military first. But the Libtards loved it, and now they demand all the things they did not do in passing it to be considered in repealing it.

Even most of the Democrats I know in the military were disgusted at this election. And the majority voted the R this time, because the D candidate was appalling. Basically the lesser of two evils.

Myself, I voted for neither one of them. I voted for somebody who had been knocked out during the Democratic Primaries, who I thought would have made an outstanding President.
 
RetiredUSN said:
What a crock.

Carter
Reagan
Bush
Clinton
Bush
Obama

All signed off (green lighted) questionable & disastrous missions that many of us never get to hear about. Presidents make decisions based on input and react accordingly. Carter knew ahead of time that blowing sand would take down aircraft....................right?
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This thread isn't about the military failures of past US presidents. It's about Trumps Yemen failure. Keep up.
 
Rogue Valley said:
This thread isn't about the military failures of past US presidents. It's about Trumps Yemen failure. Keep up.
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Then stop presenting the Yemen as something out of the ordinary the way you did. He green lighted the mission on intel from the people in the field. The same intel the former president used.

You should keep up, or just stop posting stupidly about how the president and the SF go about their business.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Then stop presenting the Yemen as something out of the ordinary the way you did. He green lighted the mission on intel from the people in the field. The same intel the former president used.

You should keep up, or just stop posting stupidly about how the president and the SF go about their business.
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Trump should admit some responsibility when an OP he himself green-lighted (over dinner) goes bad and deep-six the political scapegoating.

Trump is certainly no Harry Truman...

main-qimg-edc462fee894f545efa2db00e65b86c9-c
 
RetiredUSN said:
Then stop presenting the Yemen as something out of the ordinary the way you did. He green lighted the mission on intel from the people in the field. The same intel the former president used.

You should keep up, or just stop posting stupidly about how the president and the SF go about their business.
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What are you missing? The OP address Trumps remarks when asked about the loss of the Navy SEAL, not any mission failure by the participants. The remarks are recorded on video for your perusal. The CinC says: "The Generals {lost} Ryan. That remark is what is being discussed. As retired Navy, I would think that the remarks would trouble you.
 
Oozlefinch said:
And this is pretty much how I see it also.

People have to remember that the last 8 years have been brutal to the military. Huge cutbacks, troop strength has dropped dramatically as has funding. We saw the repeal of DADT (nobody really cared about that in the military), more and more stupid sensitivity training rammed down our throats, and in the final months the idiocy about Transgendered.

Which really pissed off the military, because that was only a political policy, with no research prior to, nor was it talked over with the military first. But the Libtards loved it, and now they demand all the things they did not do in passing it to be considered in repealing it.

Even most of the Democrats I know in the military were disgusted at this election. And the majority voted the R this time, because the D candidate was appalling. Basically the lesser of two evils.

Myself, I voted for neither one of them. I voted for somebody who had been knocked out during the Democratic Primaries, who I thought would have made an outstanding President.
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That someone wouldn't have been Jim Webb would it. He was my first choice, but when he didn't bother to campaign, I switched to Kasich and when it became apparent it would be Trump vs. Clinton, I went with Johnson. No lesser of two evils for me. Evil is still evil even if it is a matter of degree.

I retired from active duty in 1986 and then spent the next 26 years working as a Department of the Army Civilian. That sensitivity training sucked, for sure. Veterans my age remember the huge cuts Jimmy Carter imposed. Although those who weren't cut got a good pay raise from Jimmy. But Jimmy did hollow out the military. That was back in the day when most civilians looked down on the military, especially Vietnam vets.

Then Reagan reinstalled pride and G.H.W. Bush's Desert Storm campaign brought back the pride in the military for most Civilians. Bill Clinton again made drastic reductions and you know about Obama. I suppose it isn't surprising one bit the military regardless of branch, active or retired are 2-1 Republican.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump should admit some responsibility when an OP he himself green-lighted (over dinner) goes bad and deep-six the political scapegoating.

Trump is certainly no Harry Truman...

main-qimg-edc462fee894f545efa2db00e65b86c9-c
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We'll never have another president like "The buck stops here," Harry S. Truman.
 
Rogue Valley said:
This thread isn't about the military failures of past US presidents. It's about Trumps Yemen failure. Keep up.
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Nice to see you took a break from this thread after I pointed out the ridiculousness of your claims. Anyone who thinks that any President has the knowledge or experience to determine how much ground support is needed or what is an acceptable level of backup preparations is, to the people who have spent their entire careers conducting missions of similar to this has so little clue as to what goes on in the military that they shouldn't be allowed to post in this section.
That or their extreme partisanship has completely blinded them from reality and all the time care about is attacking the other side any way they can.

Wonder which one it is.
 
I retired from the Army under Obama's tenure.

There are hundreds of reasons I dislike Trump as a man and as a President. His actions to avoid being drafted to go to Vietnam are not on that list. I really have no problem with Vietnam War draft dodgers. I think doing what you can to avoid going to fight a needless war with people that never picked a fight with you is a perfectly sane thing to do. So people like Trump and Bill Clinton get a pass from me on that.

But I have also been disgusted by Trump's statements and actions in the past with regard to the military. I can't for the life of me respect someone as Commander in Chief who dishonored our POW/MIAs the way he did. But I have the luxury of not respecting him in that capacity since I am retired. It has to be tough for many active duty personnel to rectify his behavior with their duty to respect the position, if not the man.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I retired from the Army under Obama's tenure.

There are hundreds of reasons I dislike Trump as a man and as a President. His actions to avoid being drafted to go to Vietnam are not on that list. I really have no problem with Vietnam War draft dodgers. I think doing what you can to avoid going to fight a needless war with people that never picked a fight with you is a perfectly sane thing to do. So people like Trump and Bill Clinton get a pass from me on that.

But I have also been disgusted by Trump's statements and actions in the past with regard to the military. I can't for the life of me respect someone as Commander in Chief who dishonored our POW/MIAs the way he did. But I have the luxury of not respecting him in that capacity since I am retired. It has to be tough for many active duty personnel to rectify his behavior with their duty to respect the position, if not the man.
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This goes for the current, and last 3 presidents in my opinion.

I would give Obama somewhat of a pass, but he didn't keep his promise.
 
Perotista said:
That someone wouldn't have been Jim Webb would it. He was my first choice, but when he didn't bother to campaign,

I suppose it isn't surprising one bit the military regardless of branch, active or retired are 2-1 Republican.
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Yes it was. And it did not matter how much he campaigned, it was obvious that it would be Hillary, that race was fixed from the start. And I loved his credentials. A lifetime Democrat, who was a respected Marine Infantry Officer in Vietnam. Who was Secretary of the Navy under President Reagan, and also created the current version of the Post 9/11 GI Bill.

And unlike the last several Democrats we have seen run for that office, Mr. Webb had a solid reputation for being able to work with and get along with Republicans.

And I do not think it is as much that the Military tends to be Republican, it is that like most other groups they tend to want a candidate that will support them. And at least for the more Moderate to Conservative Democrats, that pushes them to the Republicans.

Last election, I could not stomach either of the candidates. And since I reside in California, it really did not matter who I voted for. Everybody knew who was going to win that state, so I case my ballot for who I really wanted. And unlike Hillary who stated she was going to take the fight to the Republicans and fight them tooth and nail, Mr. Webb was talking about how he would work with them to get what was best for the country.

But he never had a chance, the Democrats wanted somebody to fight, not to make compromises. So he was doomed from the start. And when they went down in flames, Mr. Webb gave several scathing interviews telling them that it was behavior like that (attacks and rioting) that cost them the election in the first place.
 
Rexedgar said:
Movies, television comic books? What are your sources?
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It's a indesputable fact that combat mission are dangerous and troops get killed. It's disgusting that you would piss on their sacrifice by comparing it to make believe. Even more disgusting that using the death of a serviceman as a partisan political tool.
 
apdst said:
It's a indesputable fact that combat mission are dangerous and troops get killed. It's disgusting that you would piss on their sacrifice by comparing it to make believe. Even more disgusting that using the death of a serviceman as a partisan political tool.
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Tool? Very interesting choice of words. "As the wrench turns." Serve much? Any?
 
Oozlefinch said:
Yes it was. And it did not matter how much he campaigned, it was obvious that it would be Hillary, that race was fixed from the start. And I loved his credentials. A lifetime Democrat, who was a respected Marine Infantry Officer in Vietnam. Who was Secretary of the Navy under President Reagan, and also created the current version of the Post 9/11 GI Bill.

And unlike the last several Democrats we have seen run for that office, Mr. Webb had a solid reputation for being able to work with and get along with Republicans.

And I do not think it is as much that the Military tends to be Republican, it is that like most other groups they tend to want a candidate that will support them. And at least for the more Moderate to Conservative Democrats, that pushes them to the Republicans.

Last election, I could not stomach either of the candidates. And since I reside in California, it really did not matter who I voted for. Everybody knew who was going to win that state, so I case my ballot for who I really wanted. And unlike Hillary who stated she was going to take the fight to the Republicans and fight them tooth and nail, Mr. Webb was talking about how he would work with them to get what was best for the country.

But he never had a chance, the Democrats wanted somebody to fight, not to make compromises. So he was doomed from the start. And when they went down in flames, Mr. Webb gave several scathing interviews telling them that it was behavior like that (attacks and rioting) that cost them the election in the first place.
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I took a liking to Jim Webb when he was Senator from VA and I think he had a Cabinet position before that. I sent his office an e mail stating that if he should decide to run, drop me a line. Well he did send a request for money, I hesitated and then he was gone. I don't think his will was in the race for the WH. Thought Chuck Hagel would be good when he was Senator, Nebraska, I think. When he came back to Washington DC, he was different.
 
Rexedgar said:
2 years, 362 and a wake up!
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Then why do you seem to have trouble understanding that KIA's will occur and that they aren't the defenitive barometer of success?

Partisan hackery?

Sad panda moment?
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump should admit some responsibility when an OP he himself green-lighted (over dinner) goes bad and deep-six the political scapegoating.

Trump is certainly no Harry Truman...

main-qimg-edc462fee894f545efa2db00e65b86c9-c
Click to expand...

How did it go bad?
 
apdst said:
Then why do you seem to have trouble understanding that KIA's will occur and that they aren't the defenitive barometer of success?

Partisan hackery?

Sad panda moment?
Click to expand...

Ah Bach!

Humor........jocularity.....

Once more, if you read the OP (I wrote it) you will see that I never blamed the CinC for causing the death of the Navy SEAL. My problem is with DJT saying that the generals lost Ryan. It's not a real stretch to see that he is distancing himself as the CinC. His choice of words, not the first time, was poor att best and disgraceful at worst. The other example i used was DJT's remarks about Senator McCain. You have heard those, right? The final example was the inexcusable treatment of the parents of a KIA US Marine. Hope this clears it up for, can't make it much clearer.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Yes it was. And it did not matter how much he campaigned, it was obvious that it would be Hillary, that race was fixed from the start. And I loved his credentials. A lifetime Democrat, who was a respected Marine Infantry Officer in Vietnam. Who was Secretary of the Navy under President Reagan, and also created the current version of the Post 9/11 GI Bill.

And unlike the last several Democrats we have seen run for that office, Mr. Webb had a solid reputation for being able to work with and get along with Republicans.

And I do not think it is as much that the Military tends to be Republican, it is that like most other groups they tend to want a candidate that will support them. And at least for the more Moderate to Conservative Democrats, that pushes them to the Republicans.

Last election, I could not stomach either of the candidates. And since I reside in California, it really did not matter who I voted for. Everybody knew who was going to win that state, so I case my ballot for who I really wanted. And unlike Hillary who stated she was going to take the fight to the Republicans and fight them tooth and nail, Mr. Webb was talking about how he would work with them to get what was best for the country.

But he never had a chance, the Democrats wanted somebody to fight, not to make compromises. So he was doomed from the start. And when they went down in flames, Mr. Webb gave several scathing interviews telling them that it was behavior like that (attacks and rioting) that cost them the election in the first place.
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Jim Webb was also my first choice. He reminded me of Sam Nunn, a long time senator from Georgia. More or less an old fashioned Southern Democrat who was pro military, pro defense of this nation and who also worked with Republicans. Both in my opinion put the nation way above partisan politics.

Like you, I detested both major party candidates. Hillary's nomination for 2016 was fairly much guaranteed in a meeting prior to the 2012 election between Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton. The fix was in. Heck, Hillary had 13 super delegates before the year turned to 2013 and over 300 prior to 2015 and Sanders announcing his bid for the nomination.
 
Rexedgar said:
Ah Bach!

Humor........jocularity.....

Once more, if you read the OP (I wrote it) you will see that I never blamed the CinC for causing the death of the Navy SEAL. My problem is with DJT saying that the generals lost Ryan. It's not a real stretch to see that he is distancing himself as the CinC. His choice of words, not the first time, was poor att best and disgraceful at worst. The other example i used was DJT's remarks about Senator McCain. You have heard those, right? The final example was the inexcusable treatment of the parents of a KIA US Marine. Hope this clears it up for, can't make it much clearer.
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You're using the death of a serviceman to beat up the president. There's no way to weasel out of it.
 
apdst said:
You're using the death of a serviceman to beat up the president. There's no way to weasel out of it.
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Your reputation is well deserved! We are finished here!
 
Rexedgar said:
I took a liking to Jim Webb when he was Senator from VA and I think he had a Cabinet position before that. I sent his office an e mail stating that if he should decide to run, drop me a line. Well he did send a request for money, I hesitated and then he was gone. I don't think his will was in the race for the WH. Thought Chuck Hagel would be good when he was Senator, Nebraska, I think. When he came back to Washington DC, he was different.
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He was Secretary of the Navy under President Reagan. I still remember those days... he was a SecNav that even the Marines loved having in the office. Most of them tend to treat the Marines as an afterthought, not Mr. Webb.

He did give it a real try, but am pretty sure even he knew he never had a chance. He is probably the last of the old school "Conservative Democrats", and he ran as a way to try and drive that point home. But if nothing else, his appearance in the debates when he was asked which enemy he was most proud of making will go down in history as one of the best debate moments ever.
 
Rexedgar said:
You misunderstand my question. If there is a mutual feeling amongst the services for the President's stated admiration and respect, where does it come from given he has been on the world stage, politically, for a little more than two years? You are correct as far as how I feel about our current CinC. I did the best I could to try be neutral. As far as the Navy SEAL, of course it is not the President's fault, as he was not in actual control of the mission. His public statement is on the record. If you can point out any inaccuracies in my examples, please enlighten me. My post is not meant to be a back and forth on the politics of the day. There are plenty of other places for that. Other posters are taking my question as to what the temperature is as far as military coup, that is not the case. Thank you for your service.
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If I may say so, your reply to the poster braindrain was well put.

I cannot imagine any flag officers of any branch of service who appreciated Trump's remark. I have little doubt also that all officers in command throughout the armed services were offended by the remark. Trump's nauseating comments about Sen. McCain and thus all POW/MIA disqualified him from the get-go as commander in chief.

IMO it is likewise not beyond the thread topic to introduce -- as a few posters have done -- discussion of a coup d'etat. I definitely don't think there would be one against Trump but, conversely, it is highly likely senior military commanders would not be saddened to see Trump removed from the office he is unfit to hold. Despite Trump transmogrifying the USA into a banana republic, the U.S. military per se is Constitutionally incapable of initiating or organizing a coup.
 
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