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Michael New Refuses to Wear UN Articles of Uniform

ObamacareFail said:
Really? Where in the oath? You did catch the part about according to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, didn't you? Can you point to anything in that code that allows our troops to be put under foreign command?
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Article 92, duh...
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
unless it's an illegal order. it's illegal because it is outside the scope of defending the US constitution of the United states.
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You really don't want to go down that road, because it opens up a whole can of worms determining what wars the US fights are actually legal.

One cannot bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution of the united states if you are serving under a foreign commander as part of a foreign peace keeping force.
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And why not? The UN is not a foreign power, it's not a nation-state, it's an international organization the US not only helped found but voluntarily did so. When you serve as a Peacekeeper under UN jurisdiction you are not acting either against the US nor it's interests. You wouldn't have deployed as a UN Peacekeeper unless the United States Government agreed to it. UN Peacekeepers are not soldiers of the UN, they are still soldiers of their homeland, which is why they can be withdrawn under any circumstances. The Belgians withdrew their peacekeepers from Rwanda unilaterally. That was their right. There is no standing UN Army, and UN peacekeeping operations are entirely reliant on nations volunteering their armed forces for their services.
 
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Henrin said:
Lol! Why is this even a debate? He didn't swear to protect the UN or answer to a foreign commander.
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No, he swore to obey the orders of those appointed over him. He refused to do so, and therefore was discharged.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Michel knew was instructed to wear the UN uniform, blue beret and had been assigned to answer to a foreign commander.

So it's completely relevant. where in the the regulations does it discuss the wear and presentation of a US Army soldier's wearing of the botswani uniform.

In Michael News case he was instructed to become a UN peace keeper wearing UN insignia, beret, etc and answer to a macedonian commander.
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He had to wear a UN beret and UN patches while on UN duty.

So effing what?

Was he ordered to do TDY/TAD with the UN?

The answer was YES.

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The red applies.
 
New remains under the President's command even if operational control is devolved to a foreign commander. It's not rocket science.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
No, he swore to obey the orders of those appointed over him. He refused to do so, and therefore was discharged.
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And he didn't sign up to take orders from foreign commanders. Frankly every military personal should do exactly what he did. **** the UN.
 
Henrin said:
And he didn't sign up to take orders from foreign commanders. Frankly every military personal should do exactly what he did. **** the UN.
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I did not sign up to sit in the Red Sea, nor spend too many months in the Arabian Gulf. But when my CinC said go, I did not look for cheesy excuses not to.
 
Henrin said:
And he didn't sign up to take orders from foreign commanders. Frankly every military personal should do exactly what he did. **** the UN.
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He did. **** him and the snowflakes like him.
 
Henrin said:
And he didn't sign up to take orders from foreign commanders. Frankly every military personal should do exactly what he did. **** the UN.
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I didn't sign up with the intention of sitting on guard duty for six weeks and never actually doing what I was trained for but here I am.
 
Fledermaus said:
He had to wear a UN beret and UN patches while on UN duty.

So effing what?

Was he ordered to do TDY/TAD with the UN?

The answer was YES.

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The red applies.
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You are cherry picking.


hat I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;



One cannot bear TRUE faith and allegiance to the USC while under the command of a foreign commander serving a foreign military.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I didn't sign up with the intention of sitting on guard duty for six weeks and never actually doing what I was trained for but here I am.
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But your commander is not from botswana and you don't have to don foreign service regalia.
 
Manc Skipper said:
He did. **** him and the snowflakes like him.
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You are ignorant of both the term "snowflake" and the oath of enlistment of a US soldier. being english, you are subject by your laws to serve whatever despotic regieme the un wants you to. Our laws which are being ignored, says otherwise.
 
Redress said:
I did not sign up to sit in the Red Sea, nor spend too many months in the Arabian Gulf. But when my CinC said go, I did not look for cheesy excuses not to.
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New offered to serve in theater under US command, served under us command in a UN mission in Kuwait. What he did not agree to do, and I agree with him is serve under a macedonian commander while wearing the uniform of a foreign military. there is a huge difference.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You are ignorant of both the term "snowflake" and the oath of enlistment of a US soldier. being english, you are subject by your laws to serve whatever despotic regieme the un wants you to. Our laws which are being ignored, says otherwise.
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I know more than you, it would seem. Tell me how accepting the operational control of a local commander, delegated from the Commander in Chief, removes him from US command.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
You really don't want to go down that road, because it opens up a whole can of worms determining what wars the US fights are actually legal.
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That is the oath. why would I not want to go there?


And why not? The UN is not a foreign power, it's not a nation-state, it's an international organization the US not only helped found but voluntarily did so. When you serve as a Peacekeeper under UN jurisdiction you are not acting either against the US nor it's interests. You wouldn't have deployed as a UN Peacekeeper unless the United States Government agreed to it. UN Peacekeepers are not soldiers of the UN, they are still soldiers of their homeland, which is why they can be withdrawn under any circumstances. The Belgians withdrew their peacekeepers from Rwanda unilaterally. That was their right. There is no standing UN Army, and UN peacekeeping operations are entirely reliant on nations volunteering their armed forces for their services.
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I remember spending time in the in the balkans myself as a PMC. There was an instance where the UN troops set up a child sex brothel for thier enjoyment. When it first came out, the UN commander commanded those involved to parked UN marked vehicles out of site. Not until the story broke did anything happen. It was disgusting. Now imagine being a US troop serving under such a command. What's your recourse? what's a "legal order" whats an "illegal order"? It's a **** show and outside the scope of enlistment.
 
Manc Skipper said:
So you have nothing but secondhand snark.
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And years of service as both military and a contractor.



I also understand that you seem to be trying to confuse a military unit under US control being directed by a foreign command in theater with assigning troops to serve in the UN peacekeeping forces directly under foreign commanders. The latter, is against the oath taken.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
But your commander is not from botswana and you don't have to don foreign service regalia.
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UN insignias are not a foreign uniform. The UN is not a foreign power. Peacekeepers wear UN insignias to distinguish them because they operate under a specific ROE and under a certain mandate. They are not UN soldiers.
 
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ReverendHellh0und said:
That is the oath. why would I not want to go there?
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Because it brings up the question of what constitutes legal orders when it comes to the wars America fights. Theres a lot of debate over whether Iraq was legal. Do you really want to bring that up?


I remember spending time in the in the balkans myself as a PMC. There was an instance where the UN troops set up a child sex brothel for thier enjoyment. When it first came out, the UN commander commanded those involved to parked UN marked vehicles out of site. Not until the story broke did anything happen. It was disgusting. Now imagine being a US troop serving under such a command. What's your recourse? what's a "legal order" whats an "illegal order"? It's a **** show and outside the scope of enlistment.
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That's terrible and someone should absolutely have done something. But serving as a UN peacekeeper is still not a violation of the oath of enlistment.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
UN insignias are not a foreign uniform. The UN is not a foreign power. Peacekeepers wear UN insignias to distinguish them because they operate under a specific ROE and under a certain mandate. They are not UN soldiers.
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where in the army regs is there instructions on how to wear thier insignia and beret?


The UN is not a US power therefore it's foreign.


Which takes precedent for a US soldire UN roe and mandates or UCMJ?

If you are answering to a macedonian commander, you are under foreign control and outside of your oath.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Because it brings up the question of what constitutes legal orders when it comes to the wars America fights. Theres a lot of debate over whether Iraq was legal. Do you really want to bring that up?
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two different things.



That's terrible and someone should absolutely have done something. But serving as a UN peacekeeper is still not a violation of the oath of enlistment.
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we did, I was one of several asked to leave persona non grata for bringing it to light..


Bolkovac: ?UN tries to cover up peacekeeper sex abuse scandal? | Europe | DW | 29.02.2016
BBC NEWS | Europe | Kosovo UN troops 'fuel sex trade'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/mar/25/unitednations
What the UN Doesn't Want You to Know - Telegraph
U.N. Faces More Accusations of Sexual Misconduct (washingtonpost.com)



I have to find it, but there was literally a memorandum sent out telling UN peacekeepers and civillians to park thier vehicles out of site when engaging in this garbage.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You are cherry picking.
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Bull.

ReverendHellh0und said:
hat I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

One cannot bear TRUE faith and allegiance to the USC while under the command of a foreign commander serving a foreign military.
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And yet people have done it since the 1800s.....

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
 
Fledermaus said:
Bull.



And yet people have done it since the 1800s.....

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
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we are just going in circles here. you want to ignroe the part I quoted which sets up the context of what you posted and you choose not to see it in it's entirty. Even though you conceded that your guy would not be wearing a botswainian uniform or regalia. you somehow see a difference here.
 
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