Something called "The Doolittle Raid."

Tangmo said:

Things were better in the ole dayze eh. It's a syndrome. If you live to be 200 bless ya the present will look like gold simply because it will be in the past.

As to the OP I saw the headline and I thought Trump wuz talking about his dolittle presidency. He though a media guy named Jimmy had presented the fake news.

The raid by the then LT-Col James Dolittle and his gutsy men to include the USN was classic American everything which told the Japanese to bend over and kiss their arse good-bye in that war. The rest is history which fact should cheer you up.

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Tangmo:

The times have changed and the educational priorities have shifted. This has altered the strengths and weaknesses of students over time. Over the 30 plus years I have been teaching, I have watched as students have changed dramatically over the three-decade span. In days gone by students had more common sense/streetwise, were better in touch with the natural world and could better articulate who they were and what they valued. Today's students are tech-savvy but can't repair their own bicycle or car if something minor goes wrong like a flat. Students of the past were better trained in linear thinking and reasoning by the time they graduated high school. Today's students are more adept at non-linear thinking and trying to teach them sequential reasoning and linear thinking is like trying to herd rabid cats! When you take the students of today on field trips into nature or to a museum they ignore what is on offer around them and focus on their wireless devices and social media. God forbid you take them somewhere too remote for reliable wireless connection because if you do (and I have) they meltdown, go into withdrawal and become listless, petulant, surly and rude to all around them. They are more prone to being physically unfit than the previous generations of kids and prefer the keyboard/touch-screen to the games field or wilderness trail. Today's students are far more socially savvy with their peers and have a wider but still superficial appreciation for events and causes of the day. They are very good at finding information and collating it (a euphemism for plagiarism) but weak in analysing it and synthesising understanding and conclusions from the data they can juggle so well. They have difficulty with fine-motor skills and trying to teach them laboratory skills like measuring masses or volumes of liquids or titration is far more challenging now. Today's students are far more attuned to the global mono-culture they are exposed to via the Internet but woefully unattuned to the local and national cultures in which they live their real biological lives.

So not better and not worse, just different.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

cuban smokes said:

most kids & young folk now days couldn't give a **** about history of any type; they have their I phones stuck sooooooo far up their ****ing assholes with FakeBook & Twitless ........... they wouldn't even know if they walked into a busy intersection during a DON'T WALK SIGNAL & got run over by a ****ing automobile .......

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Nobody remembers the Lost Battalion of World War I either except at the military academies of Europe, Russia and the USA. Throw in the military academies of China, Japan, India, Iran to mention a few others of significance.



Uniform Patch of the 77th "Liberty" Infantry Division of New York


The diverse 77th "Liberty" Infantry Division was formed up of boyz from Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx who hated the Germans more than they disliked each other. When the French on the left flank of Major Charles Whittlesey's battalion faded into the night the German divisions in the Argonne celebrated the fact they had the 554 American boys surrounded.


"The poor bastards have us surrounded again."


By nightfall, the 1st and 2nd Battalions realized that their exposed left flank had been filled by the Germans, and communications had been cut off to Headquarters. All along the American front line, the plight of the Lost Battalion was well known. They had been the only American unit along the Argonne to breach the German defenses. All along the front, other American units of the 1st Army fought fiercely against the enemy defensive line in hopes of breaking the stalemate and somehow relieving the pressure on the Lost Battalion. Struggling to survive in a small pocket in the Argonne Forest, the "Lost Battalion" was becoming a sensational story. Needless to say, reports of their situation were read and well known to the German forces that surrounded them. At 5 p.m. that evening [day four of five] the Germans mounted another heavy attack on the position. The doughboys expended what was nearly the last of their ammunition to repulse the drive. The entire ravine was surrounded by Germans.

Wings of Valor - The Lost Battalion in the Argonne Forest



From the after battle interview of Private Lowell Hollingshead who'd been taken prisoner and sent back to the Lost Battalion with a note to surrender...

The German officer ordered food for his starving prisoner and proffered a cigarette from the case on his table. Hollingshead wolfed down the first food he had tasted in five days. "While I was eating," he recalled, "Prinz (the German commander) and two other officers started asking me questions about our outfit, but finding it of no avail as I was still hungrily gulping down the food and between bites told them I was too busy to talk to them."

The German commander took his field glasses and walked to the doorway, motioning for Hollingshead to follow. "Look out there along the ravine. Can you see the rest of the men from your unit?"

Peering through the powerful binoculars, Hollingshead was surprised at how easily the American position could be seen through the glasses. "I'm sorry sir," he lied. "I can't see much of anything over there."

Lieutenant Prinz laughed, then instructed the weary American soldier to lay down on the couch and rest. As Hollingshead tried to relax, he could hear the sound of the typewriter on the table as the German commander began typing his note to the American commander to surrender. Hollingshead refused to carry the note unless Lieutenant Prinz modified it to reflect the battalion's bravery. The lieutenant made the changes.


"Tell your [German] commander to go to hell. We'll see who surrenders in this war."

Within half an hour the Germans launched their heaviest attack yet. Grenades fell from above with great accuracy. The doughboys fiercely repulsed the enemy for more than 20 minutes. Then, as the shadows deepened over the ravine, the enemy fire halted. It was a few minutes after 7 p.m. that a shadow moved swiftly towards them. An American officer and a few doughboys had just entered The Pocket from the right flank.

Before Major Whittlesey stood Lieutenant Richard Tillman who informed the Major that the 307th Infantry Regiment had broken through to the ravine as relief and waited in the trees only a few yards distance. The enemy forces, now aware of the successful breach of their defensive line by other American units, began withdrawing throughout the night.

Wings of Valor - The Lost Battalion in the Argonne Forest


I would not worry too much about these things cause they have a way of working themselves out when it matters.


"Wings of Valor: The Lost Battalion in the Argonne Forest". C. Douglass Turner. Retrieved 2008-02-20.

katzgar said:

think how many people voted for trump

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Moderator's Warning:

You drop this kind of crap in a thread like this, you get thread banned.

BillRM said:

Every and I mean every generation have such low opinions of the next generation upcoming.

For my generation it was being hook on TV not the Iphone and for my parents generation it was the radio for that matter.

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now get the hell off of my lawn

Evilroddy said:

BillRM:

I am a secondary school teacher (Grades 8-11) in Canada who teaches Maths and Sciences as well as Canadian and Contemporary World History. I teach the geeks and nerds of whom you speak. A substantial minority of them earnestly want more History, but curriculum limits do not allow schools to cater to their interests and demands. Worse still, what little time that is left for History and other social sciences is being diluted by the mandating of unfocused and superficial multidisciplinary study methods and cross curricular tie-ins which lessen the focus and time teachers can allot to History. Schools are now expected to train students in job related skills rather than to teach wisdom, critical thinking, character development and foster social skills like drama, fine arts, music and athletics. Given fixed school hours and thus limited instructional time, curriculum balance is a zero-sum game and Maths/Science is winning the tug of war over History and Social Sciences at this point. No one denies that Maths and Science are not vital in a student's education but perhaps the pendulum has swung too far in their favour recently?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

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Thank you!

Almost verbatim of what a few teacher friends tell me, and not just about history.

Evilroddy said:

BillRM:

I am a secondary school teacher (Grades 8-11) in Canada who teaches Maths and Sciences as well as Canadian and Contemporary World History. I teach the geeks and nerds of whom you speak. A substantial minority of them earnestly want more History, but curriculum limits do not allow schools to cater to their interests and demands. Worse still, what little time that is left for History and other social sciences is being diluted by the mandating of unfocused and superficial multidisciplinary study methods and cross curricular tie-ins which lessen the focus and time teachers can allot to History. Schools are now expected to train students in job related skills rather than to teach wisdom, critical thinking, character development and foster social skills like drama, fine arts, music and athletics. Given fixed school hours and thus limited instructional time, curriculum balance is a zero-sum game and Maths/Science is winning the tug of war over History and Social Sciences at this point. No one denies that Maths and Science are not vital in a student's education but perhaps the pendulum has swung too far in their favour recently?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

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I had no idea about the Canadian school system of the 1960s but the American school system in the middle of the cold war tended to focus mainly on American history in a very very patriotic manner at the expense of objective,

Being a reader of anything I could get my hands on including history even in those days I was aware of this short coming.

One thing that I used to love about math and science was the subjects had nothing to do with the selling of a point of view or white washing some facts.

Of course this is not just an American problem as for example to this day Japanese history textbooks are known to white wash their behaviors in WW2.

BillRM said:

We risk two fleet carriers and their battlegroups to do that raid at a time when we still hurting from the Pearl Harbor attack so it must had been judge very very important to do that raid.

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Today, given the price of a bomber, we couldn't afford to lose that many planes!

Re: Iwo Jima or D Day. The Dolittle raid was early in the war for psychological benefits and was in April 1942. Pearl Harbor was Dec 1941. So it may. It have been "important" but it was a morale lifter considering the ships destroyed at Pearl Harnor had not been replaced and were still being repaired, and blackouts and camouflage were in use on the west coast.

In March 1945, we fire bombed Tokyo and burned up 100k civilians, Iwo Jima started in Feb 1945.

Timelines are often psychological as well.

cuban smokes said:

most kids & young folk now days couldn't give a **** about history of any type; they have their I phones stuck sooooooo far up their ****ing assholes with FakeBook & Twitless ........... they wouldn't even know if they walked into a busy intersection during a DON'T WALK SIGNAL & got run over by a ****ing automobile .......

Click to expand...

I think each generation has had it's obsession with some new all the rage thing.

I remember people walking around with pet rocks. How about all the idiots had a stick with a dog harness tied to it pretending to walk an invisible dog. My sister spent just as many hours on the phone talking to her friend who were just across the street. Trust me if that phone didn't have a cord she would be walking around with it just like the kids today.

I was into music. The stereo in my first car cost more than the car. I had bought my car a full year before I could drive. I was obsessed. I spent 3 times as much money fixing up the car than I paid for it. My dad was furious because the car ran great when I bought it. When he found out how much I spent on the stereo he thought I needed mental help. When I bought a second car at 17 he went ballistic.

Think back about what your parents and grandparents couldn't understand about what you were doing when it was your turn to obsess.

chuckiechan said:

Today, given the price of a bomber, we couldn't afford to lose that many planes!

Re: Iwo Jima or D Day. The Dolittle raid was early in the war for psychological benefits and was in April 1942. Pearl Harbor was Dec 1941. So it may. It have been "important" but it was a morale lifter considering the ships destroyed at Pearl Harnor had not been replaced and were still being repaired, and blackouts and camouflage were in use on the west coast.

In March 1945, we fire bombed Tokyo and burned up 100k civilians, Iwo Jima started in Feb 1945.

Timelines are often psychological as well.

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Not just the price of the planes but they would impeach Trump today for sending our soldiers on mission like that today. Could you imagine sending soldiers on a one way mission today with no significant military accomplishment.

Could you imagine what the media would do to Trump if he lost almost our entire pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor.

I can see the headlines now:

Inept commander chief allows Japanese to destroy our pacific fleet and sentences thousands of American solders to an early grave.
The clown in the oval office shouldn't be in charge of a lemonade stand let alone our military.
Stupid president ties up our battle ships to make them easy targets for Japanese.
Idiot president doesn't even realize that there is a world war going on.
Why wasn't our pacific fleet protecting our west coast and our territories.
Why weren't reconnaissance planes making sure that the Japanese don't pull a surprise attack on us as.
He would have to step down just from the humiliation. If he didn't the people would demand he be impeached for such incompetence.

Tangmo said:

Nobody remembers the Lost Battalion of World War I either except at the military academies of Europe, Russia and the USA. Throw in the military academies of China, Japan, India, Iran to mention a few others of significance.

Uniform Patch of the 77th "Liberty" Infantry Division of New York


The diverse 77th "Liberty" Infantry Division was formed up of boyz from Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx who hated the Germans more than they disliked each other. When the French on the left flank of Major Charles Whittlesey's battalion faded into the night the German divisions in the Argonne celebrated the fact they had the 554 American boys surrounded.


"The poor bastards have us surrounded again."


By nightfall, the 1st and 2nd Battalions realized that their exposed left flank had been filled by the Germans, and communications had been cut off to Headquarters. All along the American front line, the plight of the Lost Battalion was well known. They had been the only American unit along the Argonne to breach the German defenses. All along the front, other American units of the 1st Army fought fiercely against the enemy defensive line in hopes of breaking the stalemate and somehow relieving the pressure on the Lost Battalion. Struggling to survive in a small pocket in the Argonne Forest, the "Lost Battalion" was becoming a sensational story. Needless to say, reports of their situation were read and well known to the German forces that surrounded them. At 5 p.m. that evening [day four of five] the Germans mounted another heavy attack on the position. The doughboys expended what was nearly the last of their ammunition to repulse the drive. The entire ravine was surrounded by Germans.

Wings of Valor - The Lost Battalion in the Argonne Forest



From the after battle interview of Private Lowell Hollingshead who'd been taken prisoner and sent back to the Lost Battalion with a note to surrender...

The German officer ordered food for his starving prisoner and proffered a cigarette from the case on his table. Hollingshead wolfed down the first food he had tasted in five days. "While I was eating," he recalled, "Prinz (the German commander) and two other officers started asking me questions about our outfit, but finding it of no avail as I was still hungrily gulping down the food and between bites told them I was too busy to talk to them."

The German commander took his field glasses and walked to the doorway, motioning for Hollingshead to follow. "Look out there along the ravine. Can you see the rest of the men from your unit?"

Peering through the powerful binoculars, Hollingshead was surprised at how easily the American position could be seen through the glasses. "I'm sorry sir," he lied. "I can't see much of anything over there."

Lieutenant Prinz laughed, then instructed the weary American soldier to lay down on the couch and rest. As Hollingshead tried to relax, he could hear the sound of the typewriter on the table as the German commander began typing his note to the American commander to surrender. Hollingshead refused to carry the note unless Lieutenant Prinz modified it to reflect the battalion's bravery. The lieutenant made the changes.


"Tell your [German] commander to go to hell. We'll see who surrenders in this war."

Within half an hour the Germans launched their heaviest attack yet. Grenades fell from above with great accuracy. The doughboys fiercely repulsed the enemy for more than 20 minutes. Then, as the shadows deepened over the ravine, the enemy fire halted. It was a few minutes after 7 p.m. that a shadow moved swiftly towards them. An American officer and a few doughboys had just entered The Pocket from the right flank.

Before Major Whittlesey stood Lieutenant Richard Tillman who informed the Major that the 307th Infantry Regiment had broken through to the ravine as relief and waited in the trees only a few yards distance. The enemy forces, now aware of the successful breach of their defensive line by other American units, began withdrawing throughout the night.

Wings of Valor - The Lost Battalion in the Argonne Forest


I would not worry too much about these things cause they have a way of working themselves out when it matters.


"Wings of Valor: The Lost Battalion in the Argonne Forest". C. Douglass Turner. Retrieved 2008-02-20.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. What a great read!

Originally Posted by Tangmo:
Nobody remembers the Lost Battalion of World War I either except at the military academies of Europe, Russia and the USA. Throw in the military academies of China, Japan, India, Iran to mention a few others of significance.

Click to expand...

Tangmo:

Nobody? I do and so does Ricky Schroder! He portrayed Major Whittlesey in a movie of this defiant stand. Likewise the heroic service and sacrifice of the aircrews of the Doolittle Raid and the sailors of the Yorktown will be remembered by some. We must remember, lest we forget and blunder into repeating history and refitting destructive wars over and over again.

Some people remember the valour and the honour of the Marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, coast-guardsmen and merchant marine of the past.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.