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“No nation ever profited from a long war." Sun Tzu and American Military

blackjack50

blackjack50

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Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard? Do you think they are costing us too much? Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea? And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard? Do you think they are costing us too much? Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea? And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
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I don't think it's the Military that has failed the People. The Infinity War has been purposefully constructed, it's for the betterment of the State and its power. It's not so much about profit so much as it is about the expansion of authoritative power. It's the end goal of the Republocrats.
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard? Do you think they are costing us too much? Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea? And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
Click to expand...

I think it has been less the military than the political establishment and yes. I do see a solution.
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard? Do you think they are costing us too much? Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea? And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think we have been harmed by the idea that if we don't utterly annihilate all resistance forever within a tiny timespan the war isn't worth fighting. The enemy gets a say in how long the fighting goes on, and they've latched onto this idea that if they can just drag the war out, Americans will give up and let them win.

Considering how little your average American knows about the reality of war....not really.
 
The military cannot create policy. The military does its job. The military's job is to kick ass. If we are there for what is considered 'too long', the military has not failed...civilian leadership has.
 
Ikari said:
I don't think it's the Military that has failed the People. The Infinity War has been purposefully constructed, it's for the betterment of the State and its power. It's not so much about profit so much as it is about the expansion of authoritative power. It's the end goal of the Republocrats.
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Nope. Like you need laws and robust force that enforces them domestically, you need similar internationally. I mean, that is the quintessential public good.
 
joG said:
Nope. Like you need laws and robust force that enforces them domestically, you need similar internationally. I mean, that is the quintessential public good.
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You need a good defense and plenty of diplomacy for the public good. An infinity war is not for the public good, it's for government power.
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard?
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I don't blame the military for the endless ME wars. They do what they're asked to do with the resources they are given.
Take Afghanistan.....anyone know what we're doing there after 16 years?


Do you think they are costing us too much?
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The wars?....Yes.
A large standing military?....Probably, but very few people seem concerned about it.

Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea?
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Living in a state of endless war seems to be the norm, nowadays.
Unless someone loses a loved one, war is something in a faraway land that kills non-existent...practically....people.
Callousness of this nature can't be good.

And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
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I'm not sure what you're asking here......
 
joG said:
I think it has been less the military than the political establishment and yes. I do see a solution.
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....and that solution is...????
 
VanceMack said:
The military cannot create policy. The military does its job. The military's job is to kick ass. If we are there for what is considered 'too long', the military has not failed...civilian leadership has.
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Military industrial complex? Nothing on that? Or the lobby for the technology and the massive scale of the military? Sure. Civilians come and go...and they certainly keep it moving...but this is more about the brass. Are you saying they hold no responsibility?
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard? Do you think they are costing us too much? Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea? And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The military relies too much on the private sector and isn't held accountable for out of control spending, corruption, and waste.
 
Ikari said:
You need a good defense and plenty of diplomacy for the public good. An infinity war is not for the public good, it's for government power.
Click to expand...

You will find we have infinity war on crime in every society humanity ever had. That's how moderately middling human societies are. And the same is quite similar between those groups, unless security is established at a Supra level.
 
blackjack50 said:
Military industrial complex? Nothing on that? Or the lobby for the technology and the massive scale of the military? Sure. Civilians come and go...and they certainly keep it moving...but this is more about the brass. Are you saying they hold no responsibility?
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Who runs the military industrial complex? Who runs the lobbies? Who controls the purse strings? Who decides on when to go to war and when to cease engagement?

I cannot spend a dime on a government program that is not given to me by congress. Similarly, I cannot profit from government spending while in the military or as a civilian government employee.
 
joG said:
You will find we have infinity war on crime in every society humanity ever had. That's how moderately middling human societies are. And the same is quite similar between those groups, unless security is established at a Supra level.
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Domestically there is a necessity for a certain amount of law and regulation. But even that can go overboard and for the power of the government, not for the rights and liberty of the People. There's a reason the US has the highest prison population per capita, even higher than China. It's to serve the government power.

Globally, an Infinity War, the likes we run now, is for the benefit of the Government and its Establishment.
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard? Do you think they are costing us too much? Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea? And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
Click to expand...

Our military has not failed, our leadership(Bush) failed in the way in which they deployed our military. There is an arrogance among the right in this country that believes our military is a magical entity capable of anything. Republicans are one trick ponies. They are like a hammer that sees every foreign policy problem as if it's a nail they must hit.

When President Obama deployed our military I felt like he did so almost flawlessly, and used them for the exact things they should be used for(obviously he inherited a ****ty situation from the previous administration that was virtually impossible to salvage), but in cases where he chose to use our military he did so quite well. Kill Bin Laden, rescuing Captain Phillips, refocusing on Afghanistan, helping out with rebels in Libya.

All of those missions were relatively successful, and while we are still fighting terrorists and ISIS they are definitely on the run. Sadly Trump and his clown car cabinet will almost certain **** everything up again.
 
joG said:
It is the Bismarck solution of moving security and all it requires to the supra level.
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Uh-huh........I'm gonna need you to dumb this down for me.
 
Ikari said:
Domestically there is a necessity for a certain amount of law and regulation. But even that can go overboard and for the power of the government, not for the rights and liberty of the People. There's a reason the US has the highest prison population per capita, even higher than China. It's to serve the government power.

Globally, an Infinity War, the likes we run now, is for the benefit of the Government and its Establishment.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you would interpret US with its much less statist Constitution and philosophy than others to focus its domestic crime fighting on government power.
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard? Do you think they are costing us too much? Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea? And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
Click to expand...

More likely the cowardly opportunists that fill the congress, senate, and oval office.
 
MrWonka said:
Our military has not failed, our leadership(Bush) failed in the way in which they deployed our military. There is an arrogance among the right in this country that believes our military is a magical entity capable of anything. Republicans are one trick ponies. They are like a hammer that sees every foreign policy problem as if it's a nail they must hit.

When President Obama deployed our military I felt like he did so almost flawlessly, and used them for the exact things they should be used for(obviously he inherited a ****ty situation from the previous administration that was virtually impossible to salvage), but in cases where he chose to use our military he did so quite well. Kill Bin Laden, rescuing Captain Phillips, refocusing on Afghanistan, helping out with rebels in Libya.

All of those missions were relatively successful, and while we are still fighting terrorists and ISIS they are definitely on the run. Sadly Trump and his clown car cabinet will almost certain **** everything up again.
Click to expand...

How surprising that a partisan such as yourself only sees good in what the president from his side did and nothing but fault in the other sides president. While at the same time ignoring anything that doesn't fit his agenda. Interesting you mention killing bin laden but fail to mention letting Isis take over large parts of Iraq. You mention refocusing on Afghanistan but fail to mention the very restrictive ROE that very much tied our hands over there. You bring up CPT Phillips but fail to mention obama conducting drone strikes in 7 different killing a large number of civilians and undoubtedly creating even more terrorists. You mention Libya but fail to mention the mess he started in Syria.

While you partisan Hackett is not the least bit surprising it is still sad to see on such a blatant level.
 
joG said:
Nope. Like you need laws and robust force that enforces them domestically, you need similar internationally. I mean, that is the quintessential public good.
Click to expand...

If that is true, how is the public good served when a government violates both international law and domestic law?
 
Thoreau72 said:
If that is true, how is the public good served when a government violates both international law and domestic law?
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In the case of domestic law, there will be few examples of increased public good from government law breaking or bending, where the laws are insufficient to deal with a challenge in the time span available. But this will depend on many things, like the form of government, the quality of laws and judiciary or the way common good is defined. Under normal circumstances rule of law will be in the interest of the citizens and necessary for good levels of legitimacy.

In the international sphere at present we find a situation of less well defined and unreliably enforced law. Especially the latter point is relevant here. Rules that are not adhered to are not law, but wishful thinking. Acting in a dream is not a good strategy. And it will lead to disappointment that will invariably undermine the rules by making them obviously damaging for those that follow them. A legal system without believable and reliable enforcement is irrelevant and usually harmful.
 
joG said:
Interesting that you would interpret US with its much less statist Constitution and philosophy than others to focus its domestic crime fighting on government power.
Click to expand...

We certainly started with a more open, more libertarian philosophy than others. We may even not be too bad compared to others now as well, though no one else has our prison population per capita, not even the Commies. We jail pretty much as many people as we can. But compared to what we were, we are far more government dominated, government controlled, government monitored. At home and abroad, our government has grown itself to obscene proportions. But this is the Republocrat goal.
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you believe our military has failed the American public in this regard?
Click to expand...

Has the US military failed at what exactly? Protecting the people of the United States? Winning wars?

Do you think they are costing us too much?
Click to expand...

Depends on how much you think is too much. It's really hard for the military to turn a profit these days.

Do you believe we have ultimately been harmed by this idea?
Click to expand...

Harmed by what exactly? Our wars? Yes, there are negative consequences to some of our actions with regards to military affairs.

And finally...do you foresee any conceivable solution besides the end of the state?
Click to expand...

Not really.
 
Ikari said:
I don't think it's the Military that has failed the People. The Infinity War has been purposefully constructed, it's for the betterment of the State and its power. It's not so much about profit so much as it is about the expansion of authoritative power. It's the end goal of the Republocrats.
Click to expand...

"War is the health of the state." Randolph Bourne

And I disagree about the profit motive. If the MIC wasn't so entrenched and making SOOOOOO much money, this would be harder for people to tolerate. Once you have a big chuck of society employed by what's really a quasi-governmental entity (not to mention the military itself), it's rather hard to get rid of. Our health care mess is a little different, but fixing it would cause the same massive loss of jobs that winding down the infinite-war, world-cop business would.
 
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