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The Myth of the Kindly General Lee [W: 473]

Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

He would have been even more overconfident and likely made several other crucial errors.

More than anything else, Gettysburg proved that Robert E Lee was a mortal like anybody else, not some demigod that y'all had elevated him up as.

Lee had a heart attack right before Gettysburg. His judgement was severely flawed.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

Lee had a heart attack right before Gettysburg. His judgement was severely flawed.

Even without the heart attack he was still suffering from victory disease.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

Even without the heart attack he was still suffering from victory disease.

There's no evidence of victory disease, but there is evidence of impaired judgement due to a cardiac event.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

:roll:

I have no further time for, nor interest in, your nonsense attempts to twist the article so that it says what you want it to say, rather than what it it does. Clearly, truth is not so important to you as agenda.

LOL! Ask not for whom the Intergalactic Meathammer of Unintentional Irony tolls; it tolls for thee.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

There's no evidence of victory disease, but there is evidence of impaired judgement due to a cardiac event.

There's every evidence of victory disease. Case in point: Pickett's Charge.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

That's debatable.

Shooting surrendering soldiers is generally understood to be a war crime in militaries.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

Shooting surrendering soldiers is generally understood to be a war crime in militaries.

It depends. In an organized surrender, yes. If half the unit is fighting and the other half is surrendering, the opposing force is under no obligation to honor the surrender. Soldiers aren't required to risk their own lives to take prisoners. The scenario I just described is considered perfidy. Perfidy is an actual war crime.

At Fort Pillow, some of the Federals were surrendering and some were fighting. Even during that period, soldiers were under no obligation to honor a surrender under those circumstances.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

There's every evidence of victory disease. Case in point: Pickett's Charge.

That was a case of bad judgement.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

It depends. In an organized surrender, yes. If half the unit is fighting and the other half is surrendering, the opposing force is under no obligation to honor the surrender. Soldiers aren't required to risk their own lives to take prisoners. The scenario I just described is considered perfidy. Perfidy is an actual war crime.

At Fort Pillow, some of the Federals were surrendering and some were fighting. Even during that period, soldiers were under no obligation to honor a surrender under those circumstances.

Hmm.....interesting. I hadn't actually known that.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

That was a case of bad judgement.

It was a case of overconfidence born out of victory disease. Lee didn't consider it possible his troops could be beaten so he threw them in headlong and it ended up being a disaster.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

It was a case of overconfidence born out of victory disease. Lee didn't consider it possible his troops could be beaten so he threw them in headlong and it ended up being a disaster.

If not for Lee's skewed judgement, he would have withdrawn from Gettysburg and fought at a place of his choosing, especially since he had the Army of The Potomac pinned.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

Every time these threads comeup, and the neo-confederates sport their colors, I'm remined of the "if only's" William Faulker so eloquently expressed in his novel Intruder in the Dust :

"For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July afternoon in 1863,

the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it's all in the balance, it hasn't happened yet, it hasn't even begun yet, it not only hasn't begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armistead and Wilcox look grave yet it's going to begin,

we all know that, we have come too far with too much at stake and that moment doesn't need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think

This time.

Maybe this time with all this much to lose and all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago; or to anyone who ever sailed a skiff under a quilt sail, the moment in 1492 when somebody thought

This is it: the absolute edge of no return, to turn back now and make home or sail irrevocably on and either find land or plunge over the world's roaring rim."
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

If not for Lee's skewed judgement, he would have withdrawn from Gettysburg and fought at a place of his choosing, especially since he had the Army of The Potomac pinned.

Possibly. But I think it was far more likely he would have made another, different error instead. The Confederacy never really stood a chance in a long war.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

It depends. In an organized surrender, yes. If half the unit is fighting and the other half is surrendering, the opposing force is under no obligation to honor the surrender. Soldiers aren't required to risk their own lives to take prisoners. The scenario I just described is considered perfidy. Perfidy is an actual war crime.

At Fort Pillow, some of the Federals were surrendering and some were fighting. Even during that period, soldiers were under no obligation to honor a surrender under those circumstances.

Forrest detractors often bring up Fort Pillow:

A Yankee Congressional investigation found that the black soldiers trying to flee to the Union gunboats under the bluff
blundered into the two Southern companies sent to prevent a Northern landing--failing to surrender;
they made the fatal error of firing on troops protected by ravines on both sides of them. Of course they were cut to shreds...

Furthermore, There were about 8 black men in his elite vanguard which was about 50 -80 of the best troopers at
any given time of the confederacy. 2 black men road with him the entire war, Napoleon Nelson and Nim Wilkes.

So it seems to me Forrest surely had better relationships with blacks he counteracted with than many of the union
generals who participated in the war at the head of black soldiers.

During the war of northern aggression General Forrest was the law in the lawless Upper Mississippi valley (UMV).
With so many rouges, deserters, opportunists and criminals (in and out of uniform) wandering the wasteland of the
UMV, knowledge that General Forrest would get revenge upon any dastardly act was enough to prevent many evil acts.

The Institute for Military Studies concluded that the Battle of Brice's Crossroads (won by Forrest),
was perhaps the most spectacular display of tactical genius during wartimes.'
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

Possibly. But I think it was far more likely he would have made another, different error instead. The Confederacy never really stood a chance in a long war.

In terms of combat power, I agree.

As far as leadership and field craft, the Confederate army was far superior the the Federals. The Southern soldier is the most superior soldier in human history.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

In terms of combat power, I agree.

As far as leadership and field craft, the Confederate army was far superior the the Federals. The Southern soldier is the most superior soldier in human history.

Well, it certainly helped that the Confederates were fighting the JV Union leadership in the first half of the war. But even after all those bad generals, the Army of the Potomac didn't disintegrate, didn't become combat ineffective, didn't mutiny.....I don't think the Army or Northern Virginia would have stayed intact given the same sort of poor leadership.

That's very questionable, especially considering how badly the Confederacy performed west of the Mississippi.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The Southern soldier is the most superior soldier in human history.

That may just be the stupidest thing you've ever posted.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

In terms of combat power, I agree.

As far as leadership and field craft, the Confederate army was far superior the the Federals. The Southern soldier is the most superior soldier in human history.


LOL! Where did you study history?
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

And I'm not surprised that you don't know that.

No apdst, I didn't know that, because I know better than to make asinine and ridiculous comments like that.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

Well, it certainly helped that the Confederates were fighting the JV Union leadership in the first half of the war. But even after all those bad generals, the Army of the Potomac didn't disintegrate, didn't become combat ineffective, didn't mutiny.....I don't think the Army or Northern Virginia would have stayed intact given the same sort of poor leadership.

I agree. Had the tables been turned as far as leadership goes, the war wouldn't have last a year.

That's very questionable, especially considering how badly the Confederacy performed west of the Mississippi.

Southern soldiers were better horsemen, better marksmen, better at living off the land, even better at doing without the necessities. Southern soldiers were less prone to disease. They were more disciplined Southern soldiers excelled in every catagory.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

No apdst, I didn't know that, because I know better than to make asinine and ridiculous comments like that.

It's because you lack the knowledge to understand. You don't even understand what fieldcraft means.
 
Re: The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

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LOL! Where did you study history?

Self educated. I don't regurgitate some inaccurate bull**** someone fed to me. I'm a Conservative. I can think independently.
 
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