Strategic Mistake

Glowpun · Feb 19, 2017

The creed of the jihadists is the West is out to destroy Islam.

I read that Trump is looking at sending US troops into Syria and Iraq. To do so will fall into the hands of what the jihadists have been saying all along. The US needs to follow the policy of containment. To do otherwise could very well send the entire Muslim world against the West. That will be very bad. Let us hope Trump has enough businessman savvy to not fall into their trap.

Keep in mind Muslims are dying everyday fighting their extremists.

joG · Feb 19, 2017

Glowpun said:
The creed of the jihadists is the West is out to destroy Islam.

I read that Trump is looking at sending US troops into Syria and Iraq. To do so will fall into the hands of what the jihadists have been saying all along. The US needs to follow the policy of containment. To do otherwise could very well send the entire Muslim world against the West. That will be very bad. Let us hope Trump has enough businessman savvy to not fall into their trap.

Keep in mind Muslims are dying everyday fighting their extremists.

Not "the whole muslim world" would be against us, but the Shiite part of it. They are our enemies all ready.

So may be that we shouldn't put American boots on that ground. But it needs more than that explanation to see why not.

Fishking · Feb 19, 2017

joG said:
Not "the whole muslim world" would be against us, but the Shiite part of it. They are our enemies all ready.

So may be that we shouldn't put American boots on that ground. But it needs more than that explanation to see why not.

Errr....whaa.....? You have that completely backwards. ISIS is Sunni, and most terrorist acts are by Sunnis. Saudi Arabia, the world's exporter of terrorism is Sunni.

Fletch · Feb 19, 2017

Glowpun said:
The creed of the jihadists is the West is out to destroy Islam.

I read that Trump is looking at sending US troops into Syria and Iraq. To do so will fall into the hands of what the jihadists have been saying all along. The US needs to follow the policy of containment. To do otherwise could very well send the entire Muslim world against the West. That will be very bad. Let us hope Trump has enough businessman savvy to not fall into their trap.

Keep in mind Muslims are dying everyday fighting their extremists.

Obama already put troops on the ground in Iraq and Syria. Sorry.

apdst · Feb 19, 2017

Glowpun said:
The creed of the jihadists is the West is out to destroy Islam.

I read that Trump is looking at sending US troops into Syria and Iraq. To do so will fall into the hands of what the jihadists have been saying all along. The US needs to follow the policy of containment. To do otherwise could very well send the entire Muslim world against the West. That will be very bad. Let us hope Trump has enough businessman savvy to not fall into their trap.

Keep in mind Muslims are dying everyday fighting their extremists.

I thought most Muslims are moderates. If most of them are moderates, then they wouldn't fall for the propaganda.

joG · Feb 20, 2017

Fishking said:
Errr....whaa.....? You have that completely backwards. ISIS is Sunni, and most terrorist acts are by Sunnis. Saudi Arabia, the world's exporter of terrorism is Sunni.

I had thought we were talking about formal states. IS is a pariah group as are other terrorists. To make sense, you would have to be more detailed in treating them. Just how differentiatingly you would have to approach it, you might want to look at the Sunni bin Laden's family and personal history. And you might want to look at the support the Shiite Iran gives to terrorists in the wider region.

Glowpun · Feb 20, 2017

apdst said:
I thought most Muslims are moderates. If most of them are moderates, then they wouldn't fall for the propaganda.

A lot of people fell for Trump's propaganda. They are called Trump supporters. Fast forward to the Muslim world.

apdst · Feb 20, 2017

Glowpun said:
A lot of people fell for Trump's propaganda. They are called Trump supporters. Fast forward to the Muslim world.

Trump supporters aren't blowing **** up and murdering innocents.

How can Muslims be so immune to extremism, as the apologists like to claim, but still be so easily radicalized?

Fishking · Feb 20, 2017

joG said:
I had thought we were talking about formal states. IS is a pariah group as are other terrorists. To make sense, you would have to be more detailed in treating them. Just how differentiatingly you would have to approach it, you might want to look at the Sunni bin Laden's family and personal history. And you might want to look at the support the Shiite Iran gives to terrorists in the wider region.

Again, Saudi Arabia is more of an exporter of terror than anyone else, if you want to talk about formal states. Iran is more interested in using unconventional forces to exert control over their spheres of influence, but they are less terrorist like in nature than the Sunni groups.

It was Saudi Arabia that was involved in 9/11. It was Sunnis that have been involved in the majority of terrorist attacks on the West.

Chagos · Feb 20, 2017

Fishking said:
Again, Saudi Arabia is more of an exporter of terror than anyone else, if you want to talk about formal states. Iran is more interested in using unconventional forces to exert control over their spheres of influence, but they are less terrorist like in nature than the Sunni groups.

It was Saudi Arabia that was involved in 9/11. It was Sunnis that have been involved in the majority of terrorist attacks on the West.

Not to forget that it was Saudi money and the Islamic school of (state) Wahhabism that financed the madrassas of Pakistan from which the Taliban largely sprang, religio-politically indoctrinated by those very same, not to forget that the same stone age branch of Islam has for years been spread thruout Europe via Saudi financed mosques there and not to forget that Wahhabism supplies the ideological base that is only one step away from what IS has made of it, just like AQ before it and all the way to the Muslim brotherhood that sired both.

It doesn't make the Shiites saints, what with their financing Hezbollah or their support for the Yemeni (Houthi) rebels, but their threat to the Western world in the field of terrorist attacks has by comparison been small.

That's not to discount their financing of groups in Iraq, Absurdistan and Yemen even prior to the current constellation of conflicts there, nevertheless the attacks so far encountered in both Europe and the US had little to nothing to do with Iran, the involvement in the Lockerbie incident never having been conclusively proven.

beerftw · Feb 20, 2017

joG said:
I had thought we were talking about formal states. IS is a pariah group as are other terrorists. To make sense, you would have to be more detailed in treating them. Just how differentiatingly you would have to approach it, you might want to look at the Sunni bin Laden's family and personal history. And you might want to look at the support the Shiite Iran gives to terrorists in the wider region.

The entirety of what has been confirmed for terrorist support by iran is in two countries lebanon and palestine, hardly the wider region when it is among the smallest countries in the entire middle east.

Most of the accusations against iran for supporting terrorism over the years have either been false or unproven, with pretty much the united states being the only country backing that extensive list. The shia are not angels, but they are by miles the lesser of two evils, in nearly every instance sunnis try to ethnically cleanse the shia unless there is a strong authoritarian govt in place that prevents them from doing such.

Sunni islam itself views shia muslims as heretics and infidels, and views shia as no different from christians or jews or anyy other religion. The extremism in saudi arabia has spread through much of the middle east, and it is becoming a power struggle between sunni and shia, between iran and saudi arabia.

apdst · Feb 20, 2017

beerftw said:
The entirety of what has been confirmed for terrorist support by iran is in two countries lebanon and palestine, hardly the wider region when it is among the smallest countries in the entire middle east.

Most of the accusations against iran for supporting terrorism over the years have either been false or unproven, with pretty much the united states being the only country backing that extensive list. The shia are not angels, but they are by miles the lesser of two evils, in nearly every instance sunnis try to ethnically cleanse the shia unless there is a strong authoritarian govt in place that prevents them from doing such.

Sunni islam itself views shia muslims as heretics and infidels, and views shia as no different from christians or jews or anyy other religion. The extremism in saudi arabia has spread through much of the middle east, and it is becoming a power struggle between sunni and shia, between iran and saudi arabia.

Erroneous...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khobar_Towers_bombing

Timeline: Iranian attacks - The Washington Post

Timeline: The evolution of Hamas - CNN.com

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj....acked-islamic-state-forces-in-iraq-1417623790

matchlight · Feb 20, 2017

If I were a Muslim jihadist, I would want very much to get Americans and other people in the West to think that the more robust military action they take against jihadists, the more they will harm themselves, in the end, and help the jihadists. How much easier to conquer your enemy, once his will has become too weak to put up more than a token fight! And I think I would be overjoyed to see Americans and other people in the West helping me to convince them never to come after me and my fellow jihadists, hammer and tongs.

joG · Feb 21, 2017

beerftw said:
The entirety of what has been confirmed for terrorist support by iran is in two countries lebanon and palestine, hardly the wider region when it is among the smallest countries in the entire middle east.

Most of the accusations against iran for supporting terrorism over the years have either been false or unproven, with pretty much the united states being the only country backing that extensive list. The shia are not angels, but they are by miles the lesser of two evils, in nearly every instance sunnis try to ethnically cleanse the shia unless there is a strong authoritarian govt in place that prevents them from doing such.

Sunni islam itself views shia muslims as heretics and infidels, and views shia as no different from christians or jews or anyy other religion. The extremism in saudi arabia has spread through much of the middle east, and it is becoming a power struggle between sunni and shia, between iran and saudi arabia.

You might want to look up some references on that. Iran has had persons sanctioned by a number of US agencies and departments for supporting terrorism via al Qaida, Taliban et al. from Afghanistan, throughout the Arab countries to Morocco and down to the heart of Africa.

beerftw · Feb 21, 2017

apdst said:
Erroneous...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khobar_Towers_bombing

Timeline: Iranian attacks - The Washington Post

Timeline: The evolution of Hamas - CNN.com

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj....acked-islamic-state-forces-in-iraq-1417623790

I think you just listed every single case of shia terrorism, now if you multiply it by 100,000 it might someday be half of the sunni terror.

I find it disturbing in most of those links it comes out as we think iran did it, wait you think? How do you not know, were they just guessing?

One of them listed was al quaeda existing in iran, pretty funny because al quaeda and iran are enemies, and claiming some groups operate in iran does not mean by any means iran state sponsored them.

On the other hand we have numerous terror attacks confirmed just between a tiny handfull of sunni groups al quaeda, al nursa and isis. That is not even mentioning the lesser groups.

beerftw · Feb 21, 2017

joG said:
You might want to look up some references on that. Iran has had persons sanctioned by a number of US agencies and departments for supporting terrorism via al Qaida, Taliban et al. from Afghanistan, throughout the Arab countries to Morocco and down to the heart of Africa.

Iran had not been proven on supporting any of those, infact all those groups want the destruction of iran. So the claim the taliban and al quaeda were backed by iran is fairly absurd unless a source other than the cia who has spent the last few decades trying to belittle and destroy iran by any means ever since they overthrew their puppet dictator is needed.

apdst · Feb 21, 2017

beerftw said:
I think you just listed every single case of shia terrorism, now if you multiply it by 100,000 it might someday be half of the sunni terror.

I find it disturbing in most of those links it comes out as we think iran did it, wait you think? How do you not know, were they just guessing?

One of them listed was al quaeda existing in iran, pretty funny because al quaeda and iran are enemies, and claiming some groups operate in iran does not mean by any means iran state sponsored them.

On the other hand we have numerous terror attacks confirmed just between a tiny handfull of sunni groups al quaeda, al nursa and isis. That is not even mentioning the lesser groups.

You said that the entirety of Iranian supported terrorist attacks occured in Lebanon and Palestine. You're wrong. As far as Khobar Towers goes, a court ruled Iran responsible.

beerftw · Feb 21, 2017

apdst said:
You said that the entirety of Iranian supported terrorist attacks occured in Lebanon and Palestine. You're wrong. As far as Khobar Towers goes, a court ruled Iran responsible.

Hezbollah hamas and pla, those are the three confirmed to be supported by iran, the rest of the list has been based on unbacked allegations.

For example the proof al quaeda was backed by iran came from a report from the us treasury on intel, stop and think about how credible the us treasury is at foreign intel on terrorist orgs.

Further bushes entire list on al quaeda came from iran, who monitored all the people fleeing from afghanistan after the invasion to iran, and iran turned over the name and photo and passport photocopies of every vip that crossed their border from the terrorist group.

Also the claims they back the taliban are absurd, the taliban murdered 9 at the iranian embasy in mazarisharif in that last major standoff between the talibn and the northern govt before the taliban gained full control. that was part of the shia purge, and it is hard to believe iran would endorse the slaughter of their own embassy and the ethnic cleansing of shia muslims.

So far claims have been circulating that iran is backing isis, even though in actuallity they are backing assad, and have been on the forefront fighting isis

apdst · Feb 21, 2017

beerftw said:
Hezbollah hamas and pla, those are the three confirmed to be supported by iran, the rest of the list has been based on unbacked allegations.

For example the proof al quaeda was backed by iran came from a report from the us treasury on intel, stop and think about how credible the us treasury is at foreign intel on terrorist orgs.

Further bushes entire list on al quaeda came from iran, who monitored all the people fleeing from afghanistan after the invasion to iran, and iran turned over the name and photo and passport photocopies of every vip that crossed their border from the terrorist group.

Also the claims they back the taliban are absurd, the taliban murdered 9 at the iranian embasy in mazarisharif in that last major standoff between the talibn and the northern govt before the taliban gained full control. that was part of the shia purge, and it is hard to believe iran would endorse the slaughter of their own embassy and the ethnic cleansing of shia muslims.

So far claims have been circulating that iran is backing isis, even though in actuallity they are backing assad, and have been on the forefront fighting isis

Hezbollah set off the bomb at the Khobar Tower. Iran funds Hezbollah.

beerftw · Feb 21, 2017

apdst said:
Hezbollah set off the bomb at the Khobar Tower. Iran funds Hezbollah.

In terms of that yes they did, but you are arguing iranian support of terrorism in the wider region, and even hezbollah outside of lebanon and israel has been fairly small on anything.

The current threat is from sunni muslims joining groups like isis and al nursa, one of those two the us backed as moderate rebels, the other readily joined their ranks and reaped in on us backing. After 9/11 iran was actually the biggest help to the us in fighting terrorism, as stated before, almost all groups want the destruction of iran, and groups like isis and al quaeda view iran as a bigger target than the west. Then it only makes sense why they helped us after 9/11, even with the whole shah thing in irans memory, those terrorist groups were a direct threat, and the us govt had the might to fight them head on.

apdst · Feb 21, 2017

beerftw said:
In terms of that yes they did, but you are arguing iranian support of terrorism in the wider region, and even hezbollah outside of lebanon and israel has been fairly small on anything.

The current threat is from sunni muslims joining groups like isis and al nursa, one of those two the us backed as moderate rebels, the other readily joined their ranks and reaped in on us backing. After 9/11 iran was actually the biggest help to the us in fighting terrorism, as stated before, almost all groups want the destruction of iran, and groups like isis and al quaeda view iran as a bigger target than the west. Then it only makes sense why they helped us after 9/11, even with the whole shah thing in irans memory, those terrorist groups were a direct threat, and the us govt had the might to fight them head on.

You said in it's, "entirety". Words have meanings; apologism has concequences.

joG · Feb 22, 2017

beerftw said:
Iran had not been proven on supporting any of those, infact all those groups want the destruction of iran. So the claim the taliban and al quaeda were backed by iran is fairly absurd unless a source other than the cia who has spent the last few decades trying to belittle and destroy iran by any means ever since they overthrew their puppet dictator is needed.

Why don't you look it up yourself instead of saying that the general knowledge is wrong.

Oozlefinch · Feb 22, 2017

Fishking said:
Errr....whaa.....? You have that completely backwards. ISIS is Sunni, and most terrorist acts are by Sunnis. Saudi Arabia, the world's exporter of terrorism is Sunni.

Sorry, you are dead wrong there.

The largest group of ISIS fighters are actually from Tunisia. They outnumber the Saudi contingent by about 2 to 1 (5,000 Tunisians against around 2,500 Saudis).

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Global-Terrorism-Index-2015.pdf

Look at Page 46.

apdst said:
I thought most Muslims are moderates. If most of them are moderates, then they wouldn't fall for the propaganda.

Most of them are moderates.

Just like most of any major group are composed of moderates. During the Christian Wars in Europe a few centuries ago, most could not care less about the Catholic-Protestant split, they simply wanted to go on with their lives. It was the extremists on both sides that perpetuated the slaughter for over a century.

This can be seen in the makeup of ISIS. Even though there are around 8 million people in the regions they control, they only have around 40,000 forces in total.

apdst · Feb 22, 2017

Oozlefinch said:
Sorry, you are dead wrong there.

The largest group of ISIS fighters are actually from Tunisia. They outnumber the Saudi contingent by about 2 to 1 (5,000 Tunisians against around 2,500 Saudis).

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Global-Terrorism-Index-2015.pdf

Look at Page 46.

Most of them are moderates.

Just like most of any major group are composed of moderates. During the Christian Wars in Europe a few centuries ago, most could not care less about the Catholic-Protestant split, they simply wanted to go on with their lives. It was the extremists on both sides that perpetuated the slaughter for over a century.

This can be seen in the makeup of ISIS. Even though there are around 8 million people in the regions they control, they only have around 40,000 forces in total.

The apologists go on about how most Muslims are moderates, then in the next breath warn against offending them because they'll hate us and want to kill us. The two are a contradiction.

Fishking · Feb 22, 2017

Oozlefinch said:
Sorry, you are dead wrong there.

The largest group of ISIS fighters are actually from Tunisia. They outnumber the Saudi contingent by about 2 to 1 (5,000 Tunisians against around 2,500 Saudis).

Sunni, not Saudi. Saudi Arabia is the de facto head of Sunni Islam and exports and funds it's more radical forms of Islam around the Muslim world.

Leaked Hillary Clinton emails show U.S. allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar supported ISIS - Salon.com

Strategic Mistake

Glowpun

joG

Fishking

Fletch

apdst

joG

Glowpun

apdst

Fishking

Chagos

beerftw

proud ammosexual

apdst

matchlight

joG

beerftw

proud ammosexual

beerftw

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apdst

beerftw

proud ammosexual

apdst

beerftw

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apdst

joG

Oozlefinch

apdst

Fishking