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Trump Killed More than a Dozen Women and Children

And where is the UN in all of this? GW Bush started a very inappropriate

Sheesh, you keep trying to beat this dead horse into the ground. Yet you do not even seem to realize it is not a horse at all but a pig.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers

And are you even aware of the UNs role in causing the cholera outbreak that has killed over 10,000 in Haiti? And this is still ongoing today.

The response of the UN to the outbreak in Haiti which they caused? Claim diplomatic immunity, deny any responsibility and leave providing no compensation or assistance.

Yea, that UN. The one that GW Bush so discredited. And what exactly have they done since then to improve their reputation?

Seems to me they have been whipping it in cholera infected feces.
 
When a woman picks up a rifle and starts killing folks she stops being a civilian. Shes a combatant.

Yes, I agree. However, based on the lack of details in the story. I question that this happened. Every time we kill civilians, we seem to say that either A. They were human shields. B. They were firing weapons.

Seems these claims can be made any time, and justify slaughters of innocents.
 
I think all nations should pay a percentage, based on their GDP. And I am not saying the UN is perfect. Can you say that all these desired changes are occurring without the UN? My claim is that the UN forces nations to talk to each other. How much anger and disdain do you hear from posters on these threads. Do you think, that if these people got together face-to-face, that it would be so contentious? I speak with others who aren't aligned with my political views, and it very-very seldom gets personal or angry.

imo, if you had people who were like the leader of NK, then yes the discussion would be contentious. Much like trying to discuss rationally with the leaser of ISIS. It would lead nowhere.
 
Yes, I agree. However, based on the lack of details in the story. I question that this happened. Every time we kill civilians, we seem to say that either A. They were human shields. B. They were firing weapons.

Seems these claims can be made any time, and justify slaughters of innocents.

I dont know why it's so difficult for you to believe. Its been happening for centuries in war.

We are talking about a belief that drives parents to convince their children to carry out suicide attacks.
 
Say what you will about the UN. We (the world) are not doing very well without them. All the comments, were basically - "This happened there" and "this happened here". None of the comments were focused on the inherent communication between International representatives of all nations. This is not happening today. I see a dangerous precedent, not just in the US, but around the world - and that is isolationalist attitudes and policies, that build walls, instead of building communication.
 
My heart goes out to the Navy Seal who was killed on this mission in Yemen.

Trump goes to Delaware to witness return of remains of Navy SEAL killed in botched Yemen raid - LA Times

However, this was a very botched mission, that will only fuel the fires of terrorism:

The operation began as a mission to gather computers and electronic devices believed to contain information about the organization, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, and possibly about terrorist plots in the works. But it devolved unexpectedly into a firefight that also killed more than a dozen women and children.

How many terrorists did we create today? If you lost your wife or child in this attack, would you seek retaliation against the US?

WOW. I guess no other President ordered any missions where there was not collateral damage to civilians including women and children. Good try to set Trump up to take the blame for the terrorist attack that is inevitable thanks to our lax border security.

I guess with this latest tragedy any terrorist strikes here in this country will be Trumps fault. I can see through this twisted logic. Sorry but the next terrorist attack is on the left for stopping any safeguards the current administration is trying to put in place.
 
I dont know why it's so difficult for you to believe. Its been happening for centuries in war.

We are talking about a belief that drives parents to convince their children to carry out suicide attacks.

I'm not saying that some of this doesn't happen. We've seen Islamic radicals set themselves on fire. My question is, why do you find it so hard to believe that we wouldn't create stories for the media?

Here's a link where the US made a similar statement:

The U.S. military said it conducted an air strike “in the vicinity” of the hospital, as it targeted Taliban insurgents who were directly firing on U.S. military personnel.

Doctors Accuse White House Of Lying To Justify ?Collateral Damage? In Kabul Hospital Bombing « SGTreport ? The Corporate Propaganda Antidote ? Silver, Gold, Truth, Liberty, & Freedom

Tragic Errors in U.S. Military Policy Targeting the civilian population by Edward S. Herman

In Kabul, the Afghan Ministry of Defense said Taliban fighters had attacked the hospital and were using the building “as a human shield”.
 
I'm not saying that some of this doesn't happen. We've seen Islamic radicals set themselves on fire. My question is, why do you find it so hard to believe that we wouldn't create stories for the media?

Here's a link where the US made a similar statement:

The U.S. military said it conducted an air strike “in the vicinity” of the hospital, as it targeted Taliban insurgents who were directly firing on U.S. military personnel.

Doctors Accuse White House Of Lying To Justify ?Collateral Damage? In Kabul Hospital Bombing « SGTreport ? The Corporate Propaganda Antidote ? Silver, Gold, Truth, Liberty, & Freedom

Tragic Errors in U.S. Military Policy Targeting the civilian population by Edward S. Herman

In Kabul, the Afghan Ministry of Defense said Taliban fighters had attacked the hospital and were using the building “as a human shield”.

Im not exactly the "Trust the government" type either. All I can do is draw on my own experiences in country. And those experiences tell me it is very likely that it happened as reported.

From those same experiences I can say its not a "happens some of the time" thing. It happens often.
 
WOW. I guess no other President ordered any missions where there was not collateral damage to civilians including women and children. Good try to set Trump up to take the blame for the terrorist attack that is inevitable thanks to our lax border security.

I guess with this latest tragedy any terrorist strikes here in this country will be Trumps fault. I can see through this twisted logic. Sorry but the next terrorist attack is on the left for stopping any safeguards the current administration is trying to put in place.

Are you putting words in my mouth? I am against this type of collateral damage, no matter who sanctioned the mission.
 
Are you putting words in my mouth?
Trump Killed More than a Dozen Women and Children

I don't have to. They are already written down for everyone to see.

I am against this type of collateral damage, no matter who sanctioned the mission.

Do you think Trump ordered women and children killed? That is what the title clearly states.

The fact is nobody wants collateral damage but it happens all the time when conducting missions of the type they were on.

First off the planning of the mission started under Obama. He did not give the order because he left office before conditions were favorable.

Second it does not say who started the fire fight. Was it our soldiers, terrorist, or the women and children?

Looks like a poor attempt to place blame on Trump without any real facts as usual.
 
I don't have to. They are already written down for everyone to see.



Do you think Trump ordered women and children killed? That is what the title clearly states.

The fact is nobody wants collateral damage but it happens all the time when conducting missions of the type they were on.

First off the planning of the mission started under Obama. He did not give the order because he left office before conditions were favorable.

Second it does not say who started the fire fight. Was it our soldiers, terrorist, or the women and children?

Looks like a poor attempt to place blame on Trump without any real facts as usual.

I agree. That's what I've been saying. The information is lacking... However, Trump is the commander-in-chief, and the military has top-down accountability, so he is ultimately responsible.
 
I agree. That's what I've been saying. The information is lacking... However, Trump is the commander-in-chief, and the military has top-down accountability, so he is ultimately responsible.

Responsible for what? We don't even know who started the shooting or who actually killed anyone. Our enemies have a habit of using women and children as a shield or for protection.

Very few if any soldiers can match our soldiers in head to head battle.

They use places such as schools, churches, and other places where if we shoot back collateral damage will make us look bad. It is there hope that either we will not retaliate or if we do it will make us look bad.
It has been common practice to put antiaircraft guns atop of schools, hospitals, Churches, and historical sites with the hope we will not attack such structures. All's fair in love and war if you wish to be victorious. Our enemies have no problem using children to attack our troops in almost every war we have been in. These terrorist ore even more likely to shoot at our troops from school windows surrounded by children in the hope we will not have the resolve to shoot back.

I promise you anyone shooting at me using a child for a shield and I will shoot back. They are responsible for the child's death not me.
 
Responsible for what?

How about this for starters:

1. Navy Seal killed in raid.
2. $75 million helicopter destroyed in raid.
3. Little girl killed in raid.
4. Unexpected firefight ensued. Women killed. Soldiers may have to undergo treatment for post-traumatic stress.

So yes, I would say this was a "botched raid", and the media that quote this, got it right.
 
So we are still blaming trump for a mission that was ok'd during the obama administration that was waiting for a new moon?


Thread title is about killing of women and children... did said poster ever post about any of the 100,000 air strikes under obama or even any of the 26,000 bombs obama dropped in 2016?


#fakenews #fakeoutrage #endlesswariscoolwhenademocratdoesit.
 
How about this for starters:

1. Navy Seal killed in raid.
2. $75 million helicopter destroyed in raid.
3. Little girl killed in raid.
4. Unexpected firefight ensued. Women killed. Soldiers may have to undergo treatment for post-traumatic stress.

So yes, I would say this was a "botched raid", and the media that quote this, got it right.

Did we initiate the fire fight or did the terrorist. When going into a military operation especially a raid there is a very high and expected likelihood of a firefight. Men, equipment, and non combatants in the vicinity are at risk of being killed and equipment being damaged. This is a normal part of war. As a soldier any time we engaged in a military exercise we knew that it was highly likely that we would end up in a firefight and people were going to die on both sides.

The only thing that was botched was entering into a military raid believing a firefight was not a very realistic possibility. If they got what they were sent for then the mission was a success. We will most likely will never know the truth about that if our military is still competent. It is best to never show your hand.

If you believe the opening post then every president who ever held office is guilty of killing women and children some by the hundreds of thousands. Please.
 
If you believe the opening post then every president who ever held office is guilty of killing women and children some by the hundreds of thousands. Please.

We're in agreement here. I am not a proponent of war, to solve problems. Two of the most heinous recent conflicts that went on for generation after generation - the Irish/Protestant war and the South African Apartheid - were solved by bringing parties to the table. Not by more and more killing. We should learn a lesson. That's why I brought up the UN. In recent years, it seems the world is drifting apart, more and more. While I'm not opposed to limits of immigration, I am opposed to hate and bigotry, isolationism, genocide, etc. Keep the UN, so that parties can all come to the table.
 
We're in agreement here. I am not a proponent of war, to solve problems. Two of the most heinous recent conflicts that went on for generation after generation - the Irish/Protestant war and the South African Apartheid - were solved by bringing parties to the table. Not by more and more killing. We should learn a lesson. That's why I brought up the UN. In recent years, it seems the world is drifting apart, more and more. While I'm not opposed to limits of immigration, I am opposed to hate and bigotry, isolationism, genocide, etc. Keep the UN, so that parties can all come to the table.

The Middle East is the one area that irritates me the most. Our young men and women have been dying or getting crippled over there for 50 years that I have been around. Then the democrats have the nerve to let them come over here because they don't have the courage to fight for their freedom. Freedom isn't free. I have family members and too many good friends that have paid the price so we can be free. It is time them did the same. I will put my life on the line for people fighting for freedom. I have no respect for people who do not have the courage to fight for their freedom.

I was almost sent over there my last year in the Army. At the last minute my orders were cancelled. I told my first Sargent if you send me over there you better have someone for me to kill. I am not standing on street corner with a bulls eye painted on me waiting for someone to shoot me.
 
We're in agreement here. I am not a proponent of war, to solve problems. Two of the most heinous recent conflicts that went on for generation after generation - the Irish/Protestant war and the South African Apartheid - were solved by bringing parties to the table. Not by more and more killing. We should learn a lesson. That's why I brought up the UN. In recent years, it seems the world is drifting apart, more and more. While I'm not opposed to limits of immigration, I am opposed to hate and bigotry, isolationism, genocide, etc. Keep the UN, so that parties can all come to the table.

The problem in general is that until the side initiating the killing is willing to talk, there can be no peace.

Case in point, at one time most of the Middle East was dedicated to destroying Israel. And finally one by one pretty much all of them settled with Israel and are now at peace. The exception are the few countries or territories that are still fighting Israel.

So how do you get Palestine to stop? They laugh at talks anywhere with anybody. Until they are willing to talk peace, all the talking in the world will do nothing.

Same with North Korea. Yes there has been peace for over half a century (technically a cease fire, the state of war still officially exists). And even that much only happened because they were beat into submission.

As much as I prefer talking to fighting, I am also a realist. And destroying the combat ability of the one side or the other has ended more wars than all of the talk.

But please, tell me how we can talk ISIS into no longer killing everybody they do not like. Or the Taliban.
 
But please, tell me how we can talk ISIS into no longer killing everybody they do not like. Or the Taliban.

You talk to the leaders who are harboring them, at meetings of the UN. You get other countries to join in the discussion. It's not perfect, but with all the killing we've done, there are more terrorists than ever. You kill somebody's family member, chances are they'll become a terrorist. Wouldn't you want retribution? Let's face it, it's not working. The examples I gave of the Irish-Protestants and South Africa worked.
 
You talk to the leaders who are harboring them, at meetings of the UN. You get other countries to join in the discussion. It's not perfect, but with all the killing we've done, there are more terrorists than ever. You kill somebody's family member, chances are they'll become a terrorist. Wouldn't you want retribution? Let's face it, it's not working. The examples I gave of the Irish-Protestants and South Africa worked.

Oh yea, right.

Tell you what, you tell me how that works.

When was the last time that the Taliban, ISIS or Hamas has agreed to meetings at the UN, let alone anywhere?

The situations you mentioned are completely different.

The IRA was never a highly popular organization, and as the bloody civil war wound on the population in the areas got tired of it and pretty much told the IRA to make peace or they would go after them themselves. Militarily, the IRA never won any real engagements, and was on the run from both internal and external pressure. If they had not been loosing so bad, they never would have negotiated.

To bring in another example, the PLO was very similar. On the run both from Israel as well as Jordan and Lebanon they had little chance but to agree to peace with Israel. Now that peace is pretty much the only thing keeping them from being wiped out by Hamas.

In South Africa Apartheid was a policy of a government ruled by the national minority.

And to give an idea how worthless the UN is, they condemned Apartheid in 1962. And it only continued for another 32 years. Yea, the UN was real effective there.

You keep talking, but you still fail to make absolutely any sense. All of your arguments are based in fantasy, and not the real world.

Give me a real example that follows what you are saying. Name for me one single instance where a movement that was undefeated came to the peace table.

Because Ireland and South Africa sure do not meet that criteria. The IRA was pretty much dead for over a decade, and the SA government was barely limping along and the internal unrest was growing to the point where civil war would have broken out. Not unlike Rhodesia.

Yea, Zimbabwe is another example I guess. Civil war so bad and minority members massacred. Finally a peace treaty signed and terror used to achieve the result that the aggressors wanted. As a result, over 60% of the minority population fled the country of their birth.

Great example there, eh? You keep waving around Ireland and South Africa like they are magic talismans, not even realizing that they are disproving your points. In neither example did the aggressor nation simply decide to "give peace a chance".
 
Oh yea, right.

Tell you what, you tell me how that works.

When was the last time that the Taliban, ISIS or Hamas has agreed to meetings at the UN, let alone anywhere?

The situations you mentioned are completely different.

The IRA was never a highly popular organization, and as the bloody civil war wound on the population in the areas got tired of it and pretty much told the IRA to make peace or they would go after them themselves. Militarily, the IRA never won any real engagements, and was on the run from both internal and external pressure. If they had not been loosing so bad, they never would have negotiated.

To bring in another example, the PLO was very similar. On the run both from Israel as well as Jordan and Lebanon they had little chance but to agree to peace with Israel. Now that peace is pretty much the only thing keeping them from being wiped out by Hamas.

In South Africa Apartheid was a policy of a government ruled by the national minority.

And to give an idea how worthless the UN is, they condemned Apartheid in 1962. And it only continued for another 32 years. Yea, the UN was real effective there.

You keep talking, but you still fail to make absolutely any sense. All of your arguments are based in fantasy, and not the real world.

Give me a real example that follows what you are saying. Name for me one single instance where a movement that was undefeated came to the peace table.

Because Ireland and South Africa sure do not meet that criteria. The IRA was pretty much dead for over a decade, and the SA government was barely limping along and the internal unrest was growing to the point where civil war would have broken out. Not unlike Rhodesia.

Yea, Zimbabwe is another example I guess. Civil war so bad and minority members massacred. Finally a peace treaty signed and terror used to achieve the result that the aggressors wanted. As a result, over 60% of the minority population fled the country of their birth.

Great example there, eh? You keep waving around Ireland and South Africa like they are magic talismans, not even realizing that they are disproving your points. In neither example did the aggressor nation simply decide to "give peace a chance".

All I can say is that you're wrong about the Irish/Protestant and South Africa peace process. These peace efforts have been touted worldwide (remember ArchBishop Desmond Tutu?). You are in a very small minority with your opinion.
 
The Middle East is the one area that irritates me the most. Our young men and women have been dying or getting crippled over there for 50 years that I have been around. Then the democrats have the nerve to let them come over here because they don't have the courage to fight for their freedom. Freedom isn't free. I have family members and too many good friends that have paid the price so we can be free. It is time them did the same. I will put my life on the line for people fighting for freedom. I have no respect for people who do not have the courage to fight for their freedom.

I was almost sent over there my last year in the Army. At the last minute my orders were cancelled. I told my first Sargent if you send me over there you better have someone for me to kill. I am not standing on street corner with a bulls eye painted on me waiting for someone to shoot me.

By our military actions in the middle east (and 50 years is not exactly accurate), how has the country been protected? From whom?

To keep things in perspective, "the war" 50 years ago was in Southeast Asia, not the middle east. We've been militarily active in much of central America for 50 years, but not the middle east. We didn't invade there until Dubya & Dick took us there.
 
How about this for starters:

1. Navy Seal killed in raid.
2. $75 million helicopter destroyed in raid.
3. Little girl killed in raid.
4. Unexpected firefight ensued. Women killed. Soldiers may have to undergo treatment for post-traumatic stress.

So yes, I would say this was a "botched raid", and the media that quote this, got it right.

Was the Bin Laden raid botched?
 
Then there were the dozen women who corroborated his sexual assault claims.
 
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