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The Case for Enhancing US Military Might

Every last one welcomes US Navy port calls as a way to encourage operations in the area. I believe four US Navy ships are now based in Singapore.

That wasn't what I asked you.

How many of these nations you claim are threatened have asked for US military assistance in their current dealings with China ?

Why the dodge ? It was a simple enough question
 
Nonsense. No other developed society spends nearly as large a proportion of their fiscal budget on the military as the US does

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And others don't ?



You spend over twice as much of your GDP on your military as China does and it now represents 44% of the entire global spending on armaments. This is a far higher proprtion than at the height of the cold war and you can say what you like about the threats being faced today. They are nothing compared to the threat the USSR once represented

How about you actually use the total us budget as that is what really matters. Instead of one that doesn't include almost 60% of the actual dollars the US spends. It's a bit more honest.

Pie chart of 'federal spending' circulating on the Internet is misleading | PolitiFact

No China and Russia pay their soldiers peanuts compared to what the US does. And as Payroll is one of the very biggest expenses of the US defense budget it makes a pretty big difference.

Look I agree we spend to much on defense and should make cuts but let's at least be honest when discussing these things.
 
That wasn't what I asked you.

How many of these nations you claim are threatened have asked for US military assistance in their current dealings with China ?

Why the dodge ? It was a simple enough question

I believe I answered.
 
I believe I answered.

You most certainly didn't. I'm claiming the US has decided on this course of action unilaterally and that none of the nations that are supposedly being threatened by China have ever asked for your assistance in any disputation with it.

Prove me wrong ?
 
This is thoughtful. In an uncertain world our military strength is vital to defend ourselves and the kind of world we want to live in.

The illusion-free case for enhancing U.S. military mightBy Rosa Brooks

Don’t let the title fool you: Eliot A. Cohen’s newest book, “The Big Stick: The Limits of Soft Power and the Necessity of Military Force,” isn’t a pro-war polemic. Instead, it’s very much in the “older, sadder, wiser” vein: Once seen as a cheerleader for the George W. Bush administration’s ambitious neo-conservative agenda, Cohen now offers a vision of American power largely stripped of illusion. The United States must enhance its military capabilities and remain engaged in shoring up the international order, he contends in this thoughtful and erudite book — but not because it is infallible. It’s simply that in this messy and uncertain world, there are currently no better alternatives.
Even though Cohen is passionate about a United States that is militarily powerful and internationally engaged, he is also a student of history, and for the most part, he owns up to recent U.S. failures. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States was “unprepared, intellectually and organizationally.” It made “fundamental misjudgments,” and the military adapted only haltingly and intermittently to the new forms of conflict it faced. Ultimately, Cohen concludes, the Iraq War, which he once staunchly supported, was “a mistake.” False intelligence about weapons of mass destruction damaged U.S. credibility, as did the abuses at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere. More broadly, the war strained civil-military relations, caused tensions with key U.S. allies and left the United States weaker rather than stronger.
Cohen is equally critical of American military and political leaders. Enamored of Special Operations forces and drone strikes, U.S. policymakers have confused tactical success with strategic progress, and the military has failed to invest in “the intellectual infrastructure” of hard power and to develop innovative new ways to bring in vital talent. . . .


IMO there is no need for America to enhance it's military might; why?
The US has for decades attempted to impose it's will upon the nations of planet Earth, and what has occurred during that time?
The world has morphed & progressed into a huge ball of sh!t larger than Uranus.
What else has occurred during that same time frame? The US government has neglected the battles we needed to fight here in our own backyard.
Why would a people, in this case Americans, believe that imposing their will, their military might, their attitude, etc., upon the planet change anything?
We (America) have enuff nuclear weapons to destroy the planet multiple times over; great. So do other nations; great.

Is it actually a reality for ANY nation to act, and to perform as the policeman of the planet?
When a policy of failed coercion (terrorism) is obviously not producing the desired result what does one do?
Does a nation continually feed at the trough of marginal success/failure when it obviously is not working?

That nation should look inward to build itself from within, educating it's people, building it's infrastructure, maintaining it's already supreme military powers, waiting until which time a true threat manifest itself upon our own shores, then and only then striking ONE decisive & brutal blow to the enemy that breaches our sovereignty.

Why can't America do that? We have the ability to do just that.
America has the ability to defeat any potential enemy militarily, yet our leadership has over the decades allowed US to become our own worst enemy; we have become a victim of our own misplaced aggressions & paranoia, all while we have failed our own here at home.

Irony rules the universe & the universe seeks balance.

For so many decades we have been blinded by our leaders that have failed US.
We could have been building ourselves up, instead of tearing down the world.
We have only ourselves to blame for our short sightedness, and for those we have elected.
We need some serious forgiveness but we will reap what we have sown.
 
What exactly does that have to do with the dishonest numbers you were trying to push.

You were claiming the bloated US military budget was as a consequence of greater payroll costs. I was illustrating that it wasn't and that the US massively outnumbers the worlds other armed forces in virtually every category of modern hardware
 
You were claiming the bloated US military budget was as a consequence of greater payroll costs. I was illustrating that it wasn't and that the US massively outnumbers the worlds other armed forces in virtually every category of modern hardware
No you were using dishonest numbers to push your anti US BS.
 
I realise calling US militarism out for what it is may be uncomfortable for you but I make no apologies for that

How about for using dishonest numbers. Do you make apologies for that
 
How about for using dishonest numbers. Do you make apologies for that

Dishonest ?

So in terms of the numbers of actual hardware being fielded please prove the US is not hugely in excess of the armed forces of any other nation then ? :waiting:
 
Dishonest ?

So in terms of the numbers of actual hardware being fielded please prove the US is not hugely in excess of the armed forces of any other nation then ? :waiting:

Yes dishonest.

When did I ever claim that the US not hugely in excess of hardware compared to other countries. Oh that's right I never did. Have fun arguing that straw man you are building.
 
Yes dishonest.

When did I ever claim that the US not hugely in excess of hardware compared to other countries. Oh that's right I never did. Have fun arguing that straw man you are building.

I said no more than that current US force levels are an unneccessarily huge and wasteful squandering of resources. Which of course they are

World Military Strength Comparison
 
You most certainly didn't. I'm claiming the US has decided on this course of action unilaterally and that none of the nations that are supposedly being threatened by China have ever asked for your assistance in any disputation with it.

Prove me wrong ?

The regular port calls by the US Navy and service/support agreements that enable them are integral to the host nations' defense policies.
 
The regular port calls by the US Navy and service/support agreements that enable them are integral to the host nations' defense policies.

So when did they request any kind of assistance whatsoever from you here ? On the contrary the nations you claim are being threatened are actually seeking closer military political and economic ties with China with prime minister Duerte of the Phillippines wanting your forces out of his country altogether

As a consequence I'm pretty sure they don't want any part of your baiting of China
 
So when did they request any kind of assistance whatsoever from you here ? On the contrary the nations you claim are being threatened are actually seeking closer military political and economic ties with China with prime minister Duerte of the Phillippines wanting your forces out of his country altogether

As a consequence I'm pretty sure they don't want any part of your baiting of China

All have military/naval cooperation agreements with the US. Duterte is a passing phenomenon. Of course they want to get along with China, but they're eager to keep us there. That's why everyone wanted the TPP. Trump's and Clinton's disavowal of that treaty was a huge mistake.
 
So when did they request any kind of assistance whatsoever from you here ? On the contrary the nations you claim are being threatened are actually seeking closer military political and economic ties with China with prime minister Duerte of the Phillippines wanting your forces out of his country altogether

As a consequence I'm pretty sure they don't want any part of your baiting of China

Duerte is the village idiot in the Philippines. This is a guy who unironically compared himself to Hitler. But the Phillppines is still a close ally, despite what Duerte wants. Australia and Japan are both close US allies, as is South Korea, and Trump is only increasing our ties with Taiwan. And Vietnam certainly doesn't mind the thought of the US helping against China.
 
So when did they request any kind of assistance whatsoever from you here ? On the contrary the nations you claim are being threatened are actually seeking closer military political and economic ties with China with prime minister Duerte of the Phillippines wanting your forces out of his country altogether

As a consequence I'm pretty sure they don't want any part of your baiting of China

This is slightly outdated but basically sound. Vietnam has grown closer over the past decade.

[h=3]U.S. Strategic and Defense Relationships in the Asia-Pacific Region[/h]https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33821.pdf



by B Vaughn - ‎2007 - ‎Cited by 31 - ‎Related articles
Jan 22, 2007 - U.S. Asia-Based Military Units and Locations . ..... in the PACOM AoR, five are U.S. treatyallies.32 Pacific Command's AoR spans an area from ...
 
I think our entire military needs to be strengthened, but I am most concerned about the navy. I am glad to hear that President Trump shares that concern, and that he wants to add seventy or more ships to the fleet. Navies have a way of deciding large-scale fights in a subtle way--sometimes without the need for much shooting--that tends to be hidden by glamorous images of fighter planes and futuristic tanks.
 
All have military/naval cooperation agreements with the US.

I seriously doubt that means you are allowed to unilaterally bait China from their countries. This is simply the US pursuing its foreign policy at the expense of theirs

Duterte is a passing phenomenon. Of course they want to get along with China, but they're eager to keep us there.

So you don't see the irony of a nation supposedly in the frontline of this alleged Chinese 'threat' not only not asking for any assistance from you but actually wanting your forces out of their country within the next 2 years ? Maybe the CIA will be able to arrange a coup before then who knows ?
 
I seriously doubt that means you are allowed to unilaterally bait China from their countries. This is simply the US pursuing its foreign policy at the expense of theirs



So you don't see the irony of a nation supposedly in the frontline of this alleged Chinese 'threat' not only not asking for any assistance from you but actually wanting your forces out of their country within the next 2 years ? Maybe the CIA will be able to arrange a coup before then who knows ?

No one is baiting China. We are doing nothing new. China is.
A man as foolish as Duterte faces increased risks.
 
Opinion mostly.

No, not opinion. Fact.

Are you even aware that the majority of our equipment dates to the Reagan era and earlier?

To put it simply, our equipment is starting to fall apart. In 2012 I was the only person in my PATRIOT Battalion that was older than the launcher he operated. It was built in 1985. And we have not built any since then either.

Trucks, HMMWVs, ships, aircraft, missile systems, it is all nearing the end of it's lifespan. And for most systems there is no replacement in sight.

But please, give us some facts to show us that these "opinions" are wrong. Our newest TICO cruiser is 23 years old, the oldest ones have already been retired. Every single OHP class frigate we had have been retired. All 71 of them, either sold, scrapped or sunk. With absolutely nothing planned to replace them.
 
Duerte is the village idiot in the Philippines.

Somewhat ironic given the current occupant of the Whitehouse

Australia and Japan are both close US allies, as is South Korea, and Trump is only increasing our ties with Taiwan. And Vietnam certainly doesn't mind the thought of the US helping against China.

And have any of those countries requested your military intervention in any of their dealings with China or claimed they were being threatened by them ?
 
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