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A Less Than Honorable Policy

Thoreau72 said:
IMO, one way to properly address this problem is to make sure our wars are not brought under fraud. Give our soldiers something worthy and meaningful and important to die for. No man's conscience can long tolerate breaking into houses at night and harassing and killing women and children. No man's conscience can long tolerate sitting at a computer console all day long killing women and children by remote control drone. That's why Bradley Manning released "Collateral Murder". His conscientious act put him in a US prison for the rest of his life. Men engaged in a bull**** war, whether in the jungles of Vietnam or the deserts of Iraq will not be able to withstand the assault on their sensibilities. The GWOT is a fraud of epic proportions.
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I'd opine the 'good' or 'bad' of a war isn't the big issue for PTSD. Both wars have blood,pain, death and guilt. Yeah a lot of guilt- why him and not me, why didn't I go out and 'save' him. Both have nightmare images or torn bodies and that SMELL. Doesn't matter what kind of war if you have to spend an hour policing up bits of a buddy.

Some develop a hard shell that doesn't allow for feelings- better him than me. That happens no matter the enemy or the righteousness of our cause. But the shell either breaks hard or sends the wearer into a suicidal attack on society.

I'd say getting tired of door kicking is what gets you out of the military, not being able to get past the memories of your dead friends and your inability to protect or avenge them is what puts the barrel in your mouth/ needle in your arm.

Your results may vary... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
I'd opine the 'good' or 'bad' of a war isn't the big issue for PTSD. Both wars have blood,pain, death and guilt. Yeah a lot of guilt- why him and not me, why didn't I go out and 'save' him. Both have nightmare images or torn bodies and that SMELL. Doesn't matter what kind of war if you have to spend an hour policing up bits of a buddy.

Some develop a hard shell that doesn't allow for feelings- better him than me. That happens no matter the enemy or the righteousness of our cause. But the shell either breaks hard or sends the wearer into a suicidal attack on society.

I'd say getting tired of door kicking is what gets you out of the military, not being able to get past the memories of your dead friends and your inability to protect or avenge them is what puts the barrel in your mouth/ needle in your arm.

Your results may vary... :peace
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Yes, I think I understand what you opine about. And it certainly is an individual reaction to stimuli, as are most other human reactions. Each of us responds a bit differently to any given stimulus.

KnowDrones is an organization opposed to our indiscriminate use of drones. Some of the former operators speak of the way their "service" has caused all sorts of psychological trauma.

Ask men to fight a bull**** dishonest war, and strange things happen. In Vietnam with the draft running strong, men began to frag and take out the officer cadre. In GWOT the suicide casualties are greater than those from hostile fire.

Strange Days Indeed, fighting in wars brought under fraud.
 
JANFU said:
The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia



Who is at fault- Politicians and Senior Officers.


The headline is “A Less Than Honorable Policy” when it should be classed as a reprehensible way to treat those that served their country
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I went through the disability justification process when we got back from Iraq. It took two years. The whole process felt like I was trying to screw over the govt and they resented it. We had another guy that spent more than two years going through this process. They discharged him with 100%. His is an interesting case. Marines put him out for an injury in Desert Storm where he lost a lung. He went to the Army and they let him enlist and then deployed him. When we got back the doctors at Ft. Carson freaked that he was even allowed to enlist AND DEPLOYED with only one lung. The other question was, why didn't the Marines address the combat injury that cost him a lung? The most aggravating battles that both of us had was with our senior command officers. They did everything they could to undermine our cases. When that failed they turned to other ways of retaliating. My disability is pretty minor compared to PTSD or an amputation. It is easy to deal with. It is disgusting how our govt and command structures deal with disabilities sustained while on duty.

My disability is minor compared to most. It isn't even close to comparable to an amputation or PTSD. I am hard of hearing. It is an inconvenience but not life altering in a major way.
 
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JANFU said:
Who is at fault- Politicians and Senior Officers.


The headline is “A Less Than Honorable Policy” when it should be classed as a reprehensible way to treat those that served their country
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Sorry, but this entire article stinks.

So let me see, he tried to kill himself, then a few weeks they kicked him out with a "less-than-honorable discharge".

Yea, this is typical anti-military claptrap. Having served for over 18 years, I can assure you that nothing in the military moves that fast.

Nothing.

I bet you that if checked, he had a long string of conduct issues. But his suicide attempt is indeed the kind of thing that can get him kicked out. Oh not because he tried to kill himself, but because he took a huge amount of painkillers the day before he was supposed to deploy.

Abuse of narcotics, and nowhere in any of the articles did I read where he got them from. Then there is Malingering or Missing Movement, serious offenses in the military.

So yea, General Discharge is about right.

Sorry, if you want me to really care, find an article that gives factual information in a form that I can examine it in a real manner. Not something civilianized in a way that is almost impossible to align with military policies and procedures.

Like that entire "a few weeks later" coprolite. How about freaking dates, eh? A few weeks could be 20 weeks for goodness sakes, or it could be 3. I sense that there is a lot hiding behind the scenes there that we are not being told.
 
calamity said:
The system is what it is. Who to blame? Whoever can but does not have the balls to change said system.
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How about the individual who did what they were not supposed to do?

Sorry, but I believe in personal responsibility.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Sorry, but this entire article stinks.

So let me see, he tried to kill himself, then a few weeks they kicked him out with a "less-than-honorable discharge".

Yea, this is typical anti-military claptrap. Having served for over 18 years, I can assure you that nothing in the military moves that fast.

Nothing.

I bet you that if checked, he had a long string of conduct issues. But his suicide attempt is indeed the kind of thing that can get him kicked out. Oh not because he tried to kill himself, but because he took a huge amount of painkillers the day before he was supposed to deploy.

Abuse of narcotics, and nowhere in any of the articles did I read where he got them from. Then there is Malingering or Missing Movement, serious offenses in the military.

So yea, General Discharge is about right.

Sorry, if you want me to really care, find an article that gives factual information in a form that I can examine it in a real manner. Not something civilianized in a way that is almost impossible to align with military policies and procedures.

Like that entire "a few weeks later" coprolite. How about freaking dates, eh? A few weeks could be 20 weeks for goodness sakes, or it could be 3. I sense that there is a lot hiding behind the scenes there that we are not being told.
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Seems to be a problem with the Military. He did deploy to Iraq for 1 year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/...-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=1

The Department of Veterans Affairs estimates that as many as 20 percent of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan may have PTSD. Earlier this year, The New York Times reported that as many as 13 percent of post-9/11 veterans have received less-than-honorable discharges. Last year, NPR reported that between 2009 and 2015, the Army separated more than 22,000 combat soldiers for misconduct after they had received diagnoses for mental health problems or traumatic brain injury.
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The Military wants (most part) nothing to do with a Soldier with an MI and have no idea how to go about treating it.
Case in point
Missed Treatment: Soldiers With Mental Health Issues Dismissed For 'Misconduct' : NPR
 
JANFU said:
Seems to be a problem with the Military. He did deploy to Iraq for 1 year.
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Tens of thousands have deployed, and did nothing like that.

And people who spent 1 year in the military and never left Kentucky do it also.

I fail to see the difference.

Simple fact is, if you screw up so that you are no longer fit to serve, out you go. And hundreds of thousands of us live with PTSD every day, it normally has little impact in our lives.

I myself now suffer from Enochlophobia, but does not affect how I live my life.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Tens of thousands have deployed, and did nothing like that.

And people who spent 1 year in the military and never left Kentucky do it also.

I fail to see the difference.

Simple fact is, if you screw up so that you are no longer fit to serve, out you go. And hundreds of thousands of us live with PTSD every day, it normally has little impact in our lives.

I myself now suffer from Enochlophobia, but does not affect how I live my life.
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Can't find that one in the dictionary. What, are you fearful of the Book of Enoch? ;)
 
Oozlefinch said:
Tens of thousands have deployed, and did nothing like that.

And people who spent 1 year in the military and never left Kentucky do it also.

I fail to see the difference.

Simple fact is, if you screw up so that you are no longer fit to serve, out you go. And hundreds of thousands of us live with PTSD every day, it normally has little impact in our lives.

I myself now suffer from Enochlophobia, but does not affect how I live my life.
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PTSD like most diseases has differing levels of severity.
 
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