The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Precedent

Rogue Valley · Oct 12, 2016

The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Precedent

After blaming Russia for trying to tamper with the presidential election, the White House will want to choose its next move carefully....

DaveFagan · Oct 12, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Another loaf squeezed off the Pentagon Mainstream Media Propaganda stream by the resident mouthpiece.

Fledermaus · Oct 12, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

DaveFagan said:
Another loaf squeezed off the Pentagon Mainstream Media Propaganda stream by the resident mouthpiece.

So, Russia is not hacking?

Praxas · Oct 12, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

DaveFagan said:
Another loaf squeezed off the Pentagon Mainstream Media Propaganda stream by the resident mouthpiece.

There is an interesting part of the article and that is the U.S. is supposed to substantiate the claim. While we know some of the hacks are from Russia it will be difficult to prove that it was the Russian government behind it without tipping our hand of how we are getting the intelligence to prove such a claim. Personally I don't doubt the possibility the hacks came from the Russian government and that they are trying to influence our elections, but to prove such a claim outright is difficult.

Rogue Valley · Oct 12, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

DaveFagan said:
Another loaf squeezed off the Pentagon Mainstream Media Propaganda stream by the resident mouthpiece.

Another drive-by post with no evidence or links offered.

In my 3+ years here at Debate Politics, I've never seen you drop a link Fagan. Not even once :no:

reinoe · Oct 12, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

DaveFagan said:
Another loaf squeezed off the Pentagon Mainstream Media Propaganda stream by the resident mouthpiece.

Yes, Russia wants to get into a hacking war with the U.S. and Syria wants to get into a three front war in the middle east. There are some people who will believe bull**** no matter what as long as it comes from the government: a source that has never lied.

ocean515 · Oct 12, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Simpleχity;1066413868 said:
The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Precedent

After blaming Russia for trying to tamper with the presidential election, the White House will want to choose its next move carefully....

I agree.

Most people know "hacking" is a legitimate issue. But they likely don't understand the nuance of it beyond reading general explanations, or perhaps whatever is presented in movies or TV shows.

As connected as we all are, the ramifications of asymmetric warfare are daunting indeed. But there is also the haunting possibility such a potential is inflated for political gain.

Some suggest the US accusation has more to do with damage control over WikiLeaks and an effort to cast doubt on the veracity of the "hacked" content.

Some see the US as singularly exposed to potential catastrophic impact from a cyber attack, while forgetting the "enemy" is likely more exposed than the US to counter attack.

There are times it's difficult to separate fact and reality from a movie script.

braindrain · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

DaveFagan said:
Another loaf squeezed off the Pentagon Mainstream Media Propaganda stream by the resident mouthpiece.

Wow how surprising that Dave is defending Russia no matter what. I never would have guessed that coming from him. It's so unusual.

Dragonfly · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

The USofA certainly doesn't like it when other countries try to do to the USofA, what the USofA has been doing to other countries for decades.

Does anyone here believe the USofA doesn't actively "hack", or try to "hack" Russia, as well as China, and just about every other country outside our borders?

Abbazorkzog · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Praxas said:
There is an interesting part of the article and that is the U.S. is supposed to substantiate the claim. While we know some of the hacks are from Russia it will be difficult to prove that it was the Russian government behind it without tipping our hand of how we are getting the intelligence to prove such a claim. Personally I don't doubt the possibility the hacks came from the Russian government and that they are trying to influence our elections, but to prove such a claim outright is difficult.

Which is why I find those claims that the Kremlin was 100% behind the hacks, and vow retaliation against it, disturbing...

DaveFagan · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Dragonfly said:
The USofA certainly doesn't like it when other countries try to do to the USofA, what the USofA has been doing to other countries for decades.

Does anyone here believe the USofA doesn't actively "hack", or try to "hack" Russia, as well as China, and just about every other country outside our borders?

The USA has been caught hacking Merkel, Sarkozy, you, me, grandma and the dog. That big box in Urah soaks up most every phone call in the World. Snowden revealed that we are all being spied upon 24/7. Do we have the pot calling the kettle black? Can you just imagine that Trump is being belittled in the press because he wants a peaceful relationship with Russia? I would thnk any well meaning Nation would have to be on an acid trip to make such a conclusion, or its' leadership is insane.

Rogue Valley · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Abbazorkzog said:
Which is why I find those claims that the Kremlin was 100% behind the hacks, and vow retaliation against it, disturbing...

The Kremlin has never accused the US of tampering with the Russian 'electoral process'.

Unless you know something that I don't ?

Then again, all Russian vote ballots are paper ballots ... much easier to stuff the ballot box...

[video=youtube;aou7RCpKh8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?aou7RCpKh8M[/video]

Abbazorkzog · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Simpleχity;1066418127 said:
The Kremlin has never accused the US of tampering with the Russian 'electoral process'.

Unless you know something that I don't ?

Then again, all Russian vote ballots are paper ballots ... much easier to stuff the ballot box...

[video=youtube;aou7RCpKh8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?aou7RCpKh8M[/video]

No, I meant threatening the world with nuclear annihilation is disturbing.

joG · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Abbazorkzog said:
No, I meant threatening the world with nuclear annihilation is disturbing.

Yep. It is not at all nice of Trump to want to do that.

Abbazorkzog · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

joG said:
Yep. It is not at all nice of Trump to want to do that.

Either of them. But at least Trump's not advocating nuclear war with Russia.

legalimmigrant · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Fledermaus said:
So, Russia is not hacking?

I hope they do if this is the only way for the Americans to find out what their corrupt government is hiding from them.

joG · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Abbazorkzog said:
Which is why I find those claims that the Kremlin was 100% behind the hacks, and vow retaliation against it, disturbing...

It does seem rather probable that the Russians have been hacking and publishing for some time, from the reading I have been doing. It would also chime right considering the Gerasimov Doctrin and the non linear war that Putin has opened up on the EU and US. Of course, retaliation is always something that must be considered, but only applied in a manner that makes sense. For that you need a goal and a strategy, which I have difficulties making out in the case of Obama, Clinton or Trump.

legalimmigrant · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

DaveFagan said:
The USA has been caught hacking Merkel, Sarkozy, you, me, grandma and the dog. That big box in Urah soaks up most every phone call in the World. Snowden revealed that we are all being spied upon 24/7. Do we have the pot calling the kettle black? Can you just imagine that Trump is being belittled in the press because he wants a peaceful relationship with Russia? I would thnk any well meaning Nation would have to be on an acid trip to make such a conclusion, or its' leadership is insane.

Great post.

Spying is good. No nasty surprises.

joG · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

Abbazorkzog said:
Either of them. But at least Trump's not advocating nuclear war with Russia.

I seem to have missed who it is that is propagating nuclear war on Russia.

joG · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

DaveFagan said:
The USA has been caught hacking Merkel, Sarkozy, you, me, grandma and the dog. That big box in Urah soaks up most every phone call in the World. Snowden revealed that we are all being spied upon 24/7. Do we have the pot calling the kettle black? Can you just imagine that Trump is being belittled in the press because he wants a peaceful relationship with Russia? I would thnk any well meaning Nation would have to be on an acid trip to make such a conclusion, or its' leadership is insane.

It isn't so much the spying that is the problem. It is the use it is put to.

legalimmigrant · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

joG said:
It does seem rather probable that the Russians have been hacking and publishing for some time, from the reading I have been doing. It would also chime right considering the Gerasimov Doctrin and the non linear war that Putin has opened up on the EU and US. Of course, retaliation is always something that must be considered, but only applied in a manner that makes sense. For that you need a goal and a strategy, which I have difficulties making out in the case of Obama, Clinton or Trump.

Who is supposed to retaliate? It's not clear to me.

Is it Russia for NATO moving East to the Russia's doorstep or is the US for Russia moving their nukes to Canada and Mexico?

iguanaman · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

reinoe said:
Yes, Russia wants to get into a hacking war with the U.S. and Syria wants to get into a three front war in the middle east. There are some people who will believe bull**** no matter what as long as it comes from the government: a source that has never lied.

The evidence that the DNC hacking comes from Russia is not only from Govt. sources. In fact the private security firms came first.

Here’s a brief timeline of the attack, based on what cybersecurity researchers have found: In June, cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike reported that two hacking groups, who CrowdStrike and many others believe are competing Russian intelligence agencies, had breached the DNC system.

What we know about Russia's role in the DNC email leak | PolitiFact

DaveFagan · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

joG said:
It isn't so much the spying that is the problem. It is the use it is put to.

I see or you do not. Assange is reputed to be releasing Hillary's 33,000 emails that the DoJ could not find. Wonderful and the USA should send him a check for recovering this evidence, since they could not. Yes! It is the use it is put to. I'm sure you support Assange in this freedom of the press move in the interests of justice, eh?

joG · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

legalimmigrant said:
Who is supposed to retaliate? It's not clear to me.

Is it Russia for NATO moving East to the Russia's doorstep or is the US for Russia moving their nukes to Canada and Mexico?

Actually, it was a bad mistake not to move to the Russian boarder, as it has turned out. And it should be remembered that an allegiance was proposed with Russia. And it should be furthermore remembered that the counties are sovereign and should be allowed to make their own decisions; best of all their populations should be allowed to rule by democratic process including being allowed to depose the government. Russia really has no reason to complain in this respect.

But that is beside the point. There is a definite difference between Amnesty International and the systematic Russian non linear attack. I don't know, if you know the Gerasimov Doctrine or not, but you should read up on it. We are at war by Russian acclaim.

But

legalimmigrant · Oct 13, 2016

Re: The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Preceden

joG said:
Actually, it was a bad mistake not to move to the Russian boarder, as it has turned out. And it should be remembered that an allegiance was proposed with Russia. And it should be furthermore remembered that the counties are sovereign and should be allowed to make their own decisions; best of all their populations should be allowed to rule by democratic process including being allowed to depose the government. Russia really has no reason to complain in this respect.

But that is beside the point. There is a definite difference between Amnesty International and the systematic Russian non linear attack. I don't know, if you know the Gerasimov Doctrine or not, but you should read up on it. We are at war by Russian acclaim.

Does that rule apply here?

The US Accused Russia of Hacking. What Happens Next Will Set a Cyber War Precedent

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way

DaveFagan

Iconoclast

Fledermaus

Praxas

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way

reinoe

ocean515

braindrain

Dragonfly

Abbazorkzog

Zapatista Libertarian

DaveFagan

Iconoclast

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way

Abbazorkzog

Zapatista Libertarian

joG

Abbazorkzog

Zapatista Libertarian

legalimmigrant

joG

legalimmigrant

joG

joG

legalimmigrant

iguanaman

DaveFagan

Iconoclast

joG

legalimmigrant