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The Disaster which is Illinois

Hard to say that since Dems made all the laws.

Evening Jack
If we went back we would see both being responsible in an irresponsible way.
From what i recall the State must change their Constitution regarding the pensions they cannot meet payments for.
Is the last correct?
 
Evening Jack
If we went back we would see both being responsible in an irresponsible way.
From what i recall the State must change their Constitution regarding the pensions they cannot meet payments for.
Is the last correct?

Please see the link in my #4. I haven't lived in Illinois since 1976 and there hasn't been a governor I trust there since Richard Ogilvie.
 
These people around here selling the story the Chicago is AOK best wake up:

Chicago Area Employment — August 2017
Local Rate of Employment Growth Below National Average

Total nonfarm employment for the Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, Ill.-Ind.-Wis. Metropolitan Statistical Area stood at 4,709,800 in August 2017, up 24,700, or 0.5 percent, over the year, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. During the same period, the national job count increased 1.5 percent.
https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/news-release/areaemployment_chicago.htm

I say that Chicago is in grave danger, in no small part because the state it is in is deeply broken, and deeply broke.
 
Illinois Governor Out to Smash Bankrupt 'Blue Model'
George Will, Boston Herald

[FONT="]. . . In 2018, Rauner will try to enlist voters in the constructive demolition of the “blue model.” It is based on Madigan’s docile herd of incumbent legislators, who are entrenched by campaign funds from government unions. Through them government, sitting on both sides of the table, negotiates with itself to expand itself. Term limits for legislators, which a large majority of Illinoisans favor, would dismantle the wall.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]A 60 percent supermajority of the legislature is required for such a constitutional reform. So, next year voters will be urged to oppose any legislature candidate who will not pledge to vote to put term limits on the ballot. And all candidates will be asked how often they have voted for Madigan for speaker — he has a 26 percent approval rating — and to pledge not to sin again.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“I love a fight,” says an ebullient Rauner, whose rhetoric cannot get much more pugnacious. He calls Madigan “the worst elected official in the country” and Madigan’s machine “evil.” The nation has a huge stake in this brawl because the “blue model” is bankrupting cities and states from Connecticut to California, so its demolition here, where it has done the most damage, would be a wondrous story enhancing the nation’s glory.[/FONT]

Excellent citation.

Both parties are at fault.

One party is dramatically more at fault than the other, in this case.
 
There are 2 Illinois. Chicagoland, and the rest of the state.

The current Gubernatorial field is pathetic on both sides. If I do vote, it'll be Green Party. Just to send a message.
 
The same is happening in other midwestern states. People are leaving, mostly to the southeast to North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Florida. For some perspective, from 2010 to 2017, America's population as a whole increased by 5.5%. In that same time period, Illinois's population shrunk by 0.22% and was one of three states to have a smaller population in 2017 than in 2010 (the other two being Vermont and West Virginia). Other rust belt states such as Pennsylvania (0.8%), Ohio (1.06%), Michigan (0.8%), Indiana (2.82%) and Wisconsin (1.9%) also grew slower than the national average. Granted, Illinois seems to be sufffering a little more from emmigration than the rest and Indiana (predominantly republican) seems to be suffering the least but this trend seems to be mostly caused by the decline in America's manufacturing sector.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population_growth_rate
 
There are 2 Illinois. Chicagoland, and the rest of the state.

The current Gubernatorial field is pathetic on both sides. If I do vote, it'll be Green Party. Just to send a message.

More aptly said there is Cook County (which is the same thing, but you got to spread the blame by name to Preckwinkle & Co.) and the rest of the state.

I've voted 3rd party minus judges since 2010. (I always vote incumbent judges out regardless of affiliation)

See no reason at this point to stop.
 
More aptly said there is Cook County (which is the same thing, but you got to spread the blame by name to Preckwinkle & Co.) and the rest of the state.

I've voted 3rd party minus judges since 2010. (I always vote incumbent judges out regardless of affiliation)

See no reason at this point to stop.
Cook, Will, DuPage and Lake would be the counties making up most of Chicagoland. But, in my opinion, only Cook is a complete basket case.
 
Cook, Will, DuPage and Lake would be the counties making up most of Chicagoland. But, in my opinion, only Cook is a complete basket case.

40+ years of living here, and I never knew...:roll:

:lol:

Will Co. w/ Joliet as its seat, ain't all that great either...
 
Pretty good article here dissecting the current situation. I guess, you could say this is what happens when Democrats run amok.

Umm...The Governor of Illinois has been a Republican for the last six years I believe.
 
Dems have owned the legislature in perpetuity.

That's true In Minnesota as well, but because they have also had Democratic Governors in Minnesota they've been able to make sure their revenues match their expenditures without issue. It is the Republican governor in Illinois who refuses to work with that Democratic Legislature that is causing all the problems.

Thankfully Illinois elected themselves a Democratic Governor during the Midterms so I expect Illinois to do much better over the next few years just like California did after getting rid of Schwarzenegger.
 
Thankfully Illinois elected themselves a Democratic Governor during the Midterms so I expect Illinois to do much better over the next few years just like California did after getting rid of Schwarzenegger.

:lamo

Our new governor is a Madigan butt buddy, which means we can expect more taxes, more spending money we don't have and God knows what other disasterous ideas.
 
That's true In Minnesota as well, but because they have also had Democratic Governors in Minnesota they've been able to make sure their revenues match their expenditures without issue. It is the Republican governor in Illinois who refuses to work with that Democratic Legislature that is causing all the problems.

Thankfully Illinois elected themselves a Democratic Governor during the Midterms so I expect Illinois to do much better over the next few years just like California did after getting rid of Schwarzenegger.

I doubt it. The root of the problem has been collusion between the Democrats in the legislature and Democrat-supporting public sector unions. They have created pension and health care obligations far beyond the state's ability to pay.
 
I doubt it. The root of the problem has been collusion between the Democrats in the legislature and Democrat-supporting public sector unions. They have created pension and health care obligations far beyond the state's ability to pay.

A lot of governments do that, that does not make Illinois special, it also does not account for why the state is so broken. Illinois has long been bankrupt, but there is a lot more wrong than that.
 
A lot of governments do that, that does not make Illinois special, it also does not account for why the state is so broken. Illinois has long been bankrupt, but there is a lot more wrong than that.

Illinois is the leader in this malpractice, by a full order of magnitude.
 

[h=3]Illinois Is Better Off Bankrupt | RealClearPolicy[/h]
[url]https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/.../illinois_is_better_off_bankrupt_110660.ht
...
[/URL]



Jun 7, 2018 - Currently, federal bankruptcy law applies to local jurisdictions but not to states, and instates such as Illinois, municipal bankruptcy laws have been seriously weakened. ... It has takenIllinois' state and local governments half a century to accumulate unsustainable levels of debt and unfunded liabilities.

[h=3]Could Illinois be the first state to file for bankruptcy? - CBS News[/h]
[url]https://www.cbsnews.com
› MoneyWatch › Trending
[/URL]



Jun 16, 2017 - Illinois residents may feel some solidarity with the likes of Puerto Rico and Detroit. A financial crunch is spiraling into a serious problem for ...
 

It depends how you measure it. The site that says it's fourth-worst looks only at per-capita unfunded pension liabilities. If you were to look at it based on total unfunded pension liabilities as a percentage of annual state government revenue, Illinois isn't only worst, it's worse than any state, ever.

Alaska, while ranking worse in per capita unfunded pension liabilities, also has a Permanent Fund that is many multiples the size of its unfunded pension liabilities. So Alaska hardly counts because of that anomalous factor. If it came down to it, I'm sure a federal court would require Alaska consume its permanent fund to pay its pension liabilities if and when necessary. You can't declare bankruptcy while protecting an enormous asset for yourself.
 
Illinois Is Better Off Bankrupt | RealClearPolicy


https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/.../illinois_is_better_off_bankrupt_110660.ht...



Jun 7, 2018 - Currently, federal bankruptcy law applies to local jurisdictions but not to states, and instates such as Illinois, municipal bankruptcy laws have been seriously weakened. ... It has takenIllinois' state and local governments half a century to accumulate unsustainable levels of debt and unfunded liabilities.

Could Illinois be the first state to file for bankruptcy? - CBS News


https://www.cbsnews.com › MoneyWatch › Trending

Jun 16, 2017 - Illinois residents may feel some solidarity with the likes of Puerto Rico and Detroit. A financial crunch is spiraling into a serious problem for ...

Under current law, there is absolutely zero legal option to reduce Illinois pension benefits by even a penny, so Illinois must attempt to beat the pension liabilities out of its tax base. As this necessary action causes the comparative advantages to living and doing business in a neighboring state vs. Illinois to become more and more apparent, exodus from the state accelerates, which renders further attempts to increase taxes more and more harmful to the end objective of having enough revenue to pay the debt service. At some point, they can't pay the pension debt by leaving tax rates where they are, and they can't pay the pension debt by raising taxes. This becomes a death spiral for any non-monetary sovereign government or other entity.

And once it's come to that, then at that point, no matter what, there has to be a change to federal law in order to deal with a state that is insolvent. There is literally no legal way to deal with this other than to pass a new law that flies in the face of previous practice. You want the feds to bail out the state's self-sabotaged pension with fiat money? That requires a brand new law. You want the state to be able to declare official bankruptcy? That requires a new law. Want to cut the state into fourths and merge it with its neighbors? That would require one hell of a new law allowing that. There's nothing that can possibly be done to deal with this other than a brand new law being passed.

And when those measures are being considered by Congress, all I can do is pray to the heavens that people in this country take notice and decide to start giving a ****. Because historically when it comes to pensions, most people fail to even remotely care, and most of those who have decided to care still don't bother to understand the full nature of the problem.
 
Under current law, there is absolutely zero legal option to reduce Illinois pension benefits by even a penny, so Illinois must attempt to beat the pension liabilities out of its tax base. As this necessary action causes the comparative advantages to living and doing business in a neighboring state vs. Illinois to become more and more apparent, exodus from the state accelerates, which renders further attempts to increase taxes more and more harmful to the end objective of having enough revenue to pay the debt service. At some point, they can't pay the pension debt by leaving tax rates where they are, and they can't pay the pension debt by raising taxes. This becomes a death spiral for any non-monetary sovereign government or other entity.

And once it's come to that, then at that point, no matter what, there has to be a change to federal law in order to deal with a state that is insolvent. There is literally no legal way to deal with this other than to pass a new law that flies in the face of previous practice. You want the feds to bail out the state's self-sabotaged pension with fiat money? That requires a brand new law. You want the state to be able to declare official bankruptcy? That requires a new law. Want to cut the state into fourths and merge it with its neighbors? That would require one hell of a new law allowing that. There's nothing that can possibly be done to deal with this other than a brand new law being passed.

And when those measures are being considered by Congress, all I can do is pray to the heavens that people in this country take notice and decide to start giving a ****. Because historically when it comes to pensions, most people fail to even remotely care, and most of those who have decided to care still don't bother to understand the full nature of the problem.

I have no solution to offer. After it struck the iceberg, the Titanic was going to sink no matter what anyone did.
 
I have no solution to offer. After it struck the iceberg, the Titanic was going to sink no matter what anyone did.

Some combination of the following has to happen.

1) Full direct federal bailout of all unfunded pension liabilities, creating probably the biggest moral hazard in history, or perhaps second biggest behind only TARP.

2) Do nothing and let Illinois either decide to change its constitution so that it can cut benefits, or let the state completely destroy itself economically for generations to come.

Either one of those could be taken to the extreme, or blended somewhat. But it ultimately comes down to federal bailout rewarding horrible governance, and/or letting the state fail and become an economic wasteland.
 
Some combination of the following has to happen.

1) Full direct federal bailout of all unfunded pension liabilities, creating probably the biggest moral hazard in history, or perhaps second biggest behind only TARP.

2) Do nothing and let Illinois either decide to change its constitution so that it can cut benefits, or let the state completely destroy itself economically for generations to come.

Either one of those could be taken to the extreme, or blended somewhat. But it ultimately comes down to federal bailout rewarding horrible governance, and/or letting the state fail and become an economic wasteland.

Not pretty either way.
 
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