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2 women allegedly killed by relatives for kiss seen in online video

Jredbaron96 said:
Depends on the Muslim.

Like seriously dude, you realize that Islam is not a unified religion right? There are literally *hundreds* of sects. I mean, you've heard of Shia and Sunni, right?
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he will never get it, he will continue his journey of Anti-Islam forever
 
Jredbaron96 said:
You know back in the day the Islamaphobes on this site at least tried to use quotes from the Koran instead of nonsensical arguments that don't even hold up to the thinnest scrutiny.

If you're trying to claim that only Muslims get their information from their religious leaders, I wonder what you think the purpose of Priests and Rabbis is.
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Quotes from the Qur'an,

LOLOLOL

Muhammed is not in the Qur'an, mentioned 4 times, but nothing about him.

Remember Muhammed, the main person in Islam, without him the religion evaporates.

You only have a few choices for information,
His Bios, the closest thing to the source,
Something written from the imagination of an Islamic scholar 1000 years later.
Or your religious leaders.

Where do you get your information.
 
Grand Mal said:
One of the most articulate poets in any language ever was a Sufi Muslim. Jalal al-din Rumi (spelled a couple of ways) was a Persian born in today's Afghanistan and the founder of the Mehvlevi order of dervishes, the 'whirling dervishes' who use spinning in groups as a sort of meditation.
Islam is a broad, rich subject that many in the west will never know the least of because of determined, blindered prejudice.
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Sufi have their own story.

Sufi Islam comes from Zoroastrianism, most likely merged into Islam to save their heads, though they are still persecuted to this day.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
Sufi have their own story.

Sufi Islam comes from Zoroastrianism, most likely merged into Islam to save their heads, though they are still persecuted to this day.
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No.
Sufi is an umbrella term that covers orders that come out of many places, Pakistan, Egypt, many places. Turkey. Zoroastrianism, if it has an offshoot, probably influenced Ba'hai most.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
Muhammed is not in the Qur'an, mentioned 4 times, but nothing about him.
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The Koran lays out the beliefs of Islam and what it means. To deny that is just to insist upon ignorance.
 
Debating about Islam would be so much more interesting and actually worthwhile if there weren't so many people who held the belief that Islam is some near Monolithic entity who's existence is wholly centered around hatred of infidels and foreigners.

The idea of something as badly shattered and disorganized as Dar Al-Islam combing to create some unified front is laughable at face value.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Debating about Islam would be so much more interesting and actually worthwhile if there weren't so many people who held the belief that Islam is some near Monolithic entity who's existence is wholly centered around hatred of infidels and foreigners.

The idea of something as badly shattered and disorganized as Dar Al-Islam combing to create some unified front is laughable at face value.
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The majority of Islamic writings deal with how the kaffir is to be treated.
And yes, The religion is centered around world dominance, though their world was quite a bit smaller 1200 years ago.
Muslims have written orders from God to convert, enslave, or kill everyone else.

Surah 8:39 – “Fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah;
 
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Grand Mal said:
No.
Sufi is an umbrella term that covers orders that come out of many places, Pakistan, Egypt, many places. Turkey. Zoroastrianism, if it has an offshoot, probably influenced Ba'hai most.
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You are probably correct here.
Sufi is influenced by many religions including Christianity.
One main difference with Sufi and mainstream Islam is that Sufi deals less with the hadieths, and more with the Qur'an.
This can create numerous problems with the inquisitive within the ranks, if they exist.
Sufi is also the Mystical Islamic belief, so I am a little curious where they get their info.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
No, they don't.
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Quran (8:39) -
"And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah"

Quran (8:67) -
"It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land...

"
Quran (9:29) -
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,
(even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Quran (25:52) -
"Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness with it.

Quran (2:191-193) -
"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
 
Jredbaron96 said:
More specific? Do you know what the Koran is?
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Probably moreso than you.

It is a collection of bastardized verses and stories taken from Judism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Greek medical.
People are told it came from God, through Gabrial, to Muhammed.
Claimed to come from the 7th century, when it really came from the 9th.

The reality is that is you do not know the correct way to read it, as most Muslims don't, much of what you read is wrong anyways,
 
Yasureoktoo said:
Quran (8:39) -
"And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah"
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Fitna does not mean disbelief, it means persecution.

Quran (8:67) -
"It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land...
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Which was a suggestion made by Umar to the Prophet on what to do with the prisoners they had captured at battle of Badr, not a command for all Muslims.

Quran (9:29) -
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,
(even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
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Was a command given after the slaying of an ambassador to the Byzantines during the expedition to Tabuk.

Quran (25:52) -
"Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness with it.
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Strive against is such a vague term that using this as proof of violence is almost foolhardy.

Quran (2:191-193) -
"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
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The preceding verse is

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith."

Which is very clearly saying fight in self defense, but do not be carried away in excess.
 
Why do you think there is so much trouble with Muslims in the world.

Where do you think these Muslims get their orders.
It does not matter the specific time these orders are given, they are open ended, for all time.

The Qur'an can be manipulated to mean whatever the person wants it to mean.
You cannot understand the Qur'an without the Sunnah.

Remember the flotilla ten years ago, The Palestinian battle cry was " Remember Khaybar".

I'll bet you think Ashia was 16 or 23 when she married Muhammed.

And cut the self defense BS.
Muhammed is documented in 78 raids on unarmed or lightly armed caravans and settlements.

Do you know anything about Muhammed.
 
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Jredbaron96 said:
F
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith."

Which is very clearly saying fight in self defense, but do not be carried away in excess.
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In the mosque.
.Turn them out, from where they have turned you out, Is the basis for all land that was once Muslim, is always Muslim... Like Spain for example.

Arabic is a primitive language compared to most today, and many words can mean different things.

An example, used by some Muslims is "virgins".
The same Arabic word can mean pearls, grapes, or raisins. and is promoted by some to mean as such in the Qur'an.
Of course, if you never read the Sunnah you can be convinced.

Using the Qur'an only, is also a means used by some Muslims to Manipulate Ashia's age.
 
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Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist

The Qur'an is jibberish, written on a 6th grade level, no context, no storyline,
And is not in chronological order.

I'll bet you don't even know the correct way to read it to understand what can be understood.
 
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Yasureoktoo said:
I brought up an incident before regarding Muslim parents being allowed to kill their children, to see how the courts react.
We, in the civilized world know murder is not a cool thing, and there is no honor attached to it, however in Islam, parents are allowed to kill their children.
This is happening in the free world also. Yes, here in America, though not as much.
The main reason is for being un-Islamic, a vague term, but at the discretion of the father, if it is valid for an excuse.
The killing is usually done by the father or brother, though sometimes the mother will do it.

Since this is allowed in Islamic law, many are just being fined, or serve short jail terms.




Peshawar, Pakistan — Pakistani authorities have arrested two men for allegedly murdering two female family members after a video which showed them being kissed by a man was posted online, police said Sunday.

The two women were killed on Thursday in a northwestern district near the Afghan border, where women often have few rights and are subjected to strict tribal codes that limit their movement outside of the home.

"Both men have confessed to killing them," said police official Mohammad Nawaz.
The two men — one of whom was the father of the first victim and the other was the brother of the second, were both being held in custody pending trial.
Police said the victims were in their 20s and had appeared in a short video that was posted online that showed them being kissed by a man.
The women were later gunned down in North Waziristan's remote Garyum village and buried by family members, according to Nawaz.
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There is no aspect or doctrine of Islamic law which permits honor killings. It is considered murder, and as you helpfully pointed out, the killers of these women have confessed and been arrested. Once again your anti Muslim argument falls flat on its face.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
In the mosque.
.Turn them out, from where they have turned you out, Is the basis for all land that was once Muslim, is always Muslim... Like Spain for example.

Arabic is a primitive language compared to most today, and many words can mean different things.

An example, used by some Muslims is "virgins".
The same Arabic word can mean pearls, grapes, or raisins. and is promoted by some to mean as such in the Qur'an.
Of course, if you never read the Sunnah you can be convinced.

Using the Qur'an only, is also a means used by some Muslims to Manipulate Ashia's age.
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Lot of words for a complete non answer. Why don't you go back to the religionofpeace.com and get some more arguments while we wait.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
The religion has defined the culture for over 1200 years.

And Sub Sahara Africa is a bad example to use.
Many so called "Christians" still rely on witch doctors.
You cannot turn on one religion, and off another like a light switch.
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I’d say they are still christian, i tend to not care much about true scotsman comparisons, just variations. Honor killings should be opposed by the full force of the law though.
 
Irredentist said:
There is no aspect or doctrine of Islamic law which permits honor killings. It is considered murder, and as you helpfully pointed out, the killers of these women have confessed and been arrested. Once again your anti Muslim argument falls flat on its face.
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Considering 91% of honor killings are Islamic, common sense would dictate there is a connection there.

Here is something you can try, and just pick out the one you chose to go with.

Type in the words "how is honor killing justified in Islam", and you will get lots of hits.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Lot of words for a complete non answer. Why don't you go back to the religionofpeace.com and get some more arguments while we wait.
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I don't believe anything in that post had anything to do with "religion of peace,"

Of course it makes a good excuse when you don't want to answer a question.


Oh, and if you want to blame websites, here is one to go to.

Faithfreedom.org.

This is Al Sina, he lives here in Bellevue but works out of Seattle.
The entire site is by x-Muslims.
Many have to remain anonymous, because there is always a death sentence for apostacy.
 
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bomberfox said:
I’d say they are still christian, i tend to not care much about true scotsman comparisons, just variations. Honor killings should be opposed by the full force of the law though.
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As an example Kony, and the Lords resistance army, say they are Christian, yet no Christian sect will acknowledge them.

I don't believe the " true scotsman " approach really applies because many of these are so far off the mark.

I can say I'm a Druid, but saying it means little if I do not practice it, or know anything about it.
 
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