It's War!!

nitroexpress said:

They have made it clear that they don't want to talk. Saudi has the weapons to retaliate. Turn them loose. The US doesn't have to bear the burden of retaliating.

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Don't be disingenuous. Any Saudi war with Iran will also snare the US via Persian Gulf tanker lanes and the Strait of Hormuz.

Rogue Valley said:

Don't be disingenuous. Any Saudi war with Iran will also snare the US via Persian Gulf tanker lanes and the Strait of Hormuz.

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This is not a hug it out situation. If it's war, then better now than later. Iran will only be emboldened by a lack of action against themselves.

nitroexpress said:

This is not a hug it out situation. If it's war, then better now than later. Iran will only be emboldened by a lack of action against themselves.

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You seem in a hurry for war. Perhaps you should saddle up and take point.

Rogue Valley said:

You seem in a hurry for war. Perhaps you should saddle up and take point.

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Been there, done that. And you?

nitroexpress said:

This is not a hug it out situation. If it's war, then better now than later. Iran will only be emboldened by a lack of action against themselves.

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Has it occurred to you that Iran may be trying to bait the US into an attack, to draw us into yet another war that we could never hope to win.

Apocalypse said:

I'm quite familiar with all the propaganda nonsense which is why I called it so - and that's what it is.
Israel assisted Syrian rebels by granting them and Syrian civilians in general medical aid for years. That's not "assisting al-Qaeda". You're just repeating the same old nonsense that was debunked here a thousand times by now.

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And they pulled assistance in regions when rebels lost control.

Also it is not propoganda, the israelie govt has been caught supporting terrorism, even on wikileaks, they do the same as iran does, if it is supporting our cause they are freedom fighters but if they oppose it they are terrorists. America also did the same with the contra rebels who made isis look like pansies, and the cia even helped instruct them on things like using children and schools and hospitals for their goal in terror.

Apocalypse said:

I don't find it relevant what you see or do not see.
If you choose to embrace evil that's entirely up to you.

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He would be quite correct, shia islam is not the evil since almost all terrorism in the world is committed by sunni islam in which israel is backing, and israel kept supporting iran after the revolution for quite a while with iran thumping their chest in a speach and being polite in private rooms.

The biggest issue with israel was the current prime minister who seemed like he had to start a conflict everywhere he went and wished to use war before diplomacy for everything.

beerftw said:

And they pulled assistance in regions when rebels lost control.

Also it is not propoganda, the israelie govt has been caught supporting terrorism, even on wikileaks, they do the same as iran does, if it is supporting our cause they are freedom fighters but if they oppose it they are terrorists. America also did the same with the contra rebels who made isis look like pansies, and the cia even helped instruct them on things like using children and schools and hospitals for their goal in terror.

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Iran directs terrorists to murder innocent people.
Israel and the US do no such thing. You made a claim about Israel supporting al-Qaeda, where is the proof of that?
Simply repeating propaganda nonsense without basing anything is absurd. Show us when Israel supported an organization targeting innocent people.

beerftw said:

He would be quite correct, shia islam is not the evil since almost all terrorism in the world is committed by sunni islam in which israel is backing, and israel kept supporting iran after the revolution for quite a while with iran thumping their chest in a speach and being polite in private rooms.

The biggest issue with israel was the current prime minister who seemed like he had to start a conflict everywhere he went and wished to use war before diplomacy for everything.

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Seemed so to who?
Shia Islam is not "evil". The Iranian regime is, and it is spreading evil.
You embrace that evil since that is what you believe in, while on the other hand the values of Western democracies of freedom and liberty are things you do not approve of. That's all there is to it.
The only reason the far-left embraces the Iranian agenda is because it targets Western people and opposes Western interests.
This is the reason why they hate Saudi Arabia while they adore and worship the Iranian theocracy - because while both are human right violators the first helps Western interests and the latter is against it. That's everything the radical and extremist far-left bases its views on.

Irredentist said:

Has it occurred to you that Iran may be trying to bait the US into an attack, to draw us into yet another war that we could never hope to win.

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The warmongers will never have that level of cognitive ability for such introspection. They have one track mind and one track only: KILL DA EVUL BROWN MOOSLIMS! IGNORE RUSSIA AND THE WHITE PEOPLE!

nitroexpress said:

Been there, done that. And you?

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USMC. I did my duty.

Any veteran that is in a hurry to get the US involved in yet another ME war as you are makes my "spidey sense" tingle.

Why do some people appear to be itching for an attack on Iran ? Aren't they tired of chearleading/endorsing reasons for the ongoing slaughter of middle easterners already ? Have not enough people been killed and enough countries destroyed to satisify any crazed bloodlust ?

Rogue Valley said:

USMC. I did my duty.

Any veteran that is in a hurry to get the US involved in yet another ME war as you are makes my "spidey sense" tingle.

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You are misinterpreting my stance (intentionally?). I'm a realist and clearly you are not.

nitroexpress said:

You are misinterpreting my stance (intentionally?). I'm a realist and clearly you are not.

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You want to talk reality? Saudi Arabia has a larger defense budget than Russia. They can fight their own damn wars.

Apocalypse said:

Seemed so to who?
Shia Islam is not "evil". The Iranian regime is, and it is spreading evil.
You embrace that evil since that is what you believe in, while on the other hand the values of Western democracies of freedom and liberty are things you do not approve of. That's all there is to it.
The only reason the far-left embraces the Iranian agenda is because it targets Western people and opposes Western interests.
This is the reason why they hate Saudi Arabia while they adore and worship the Iranian theocracy - because while both are human right violators the first helps Western interests and the latter is against it. That's everything the radical and extremist far-left bases its views on.

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But how is the shia iran more evil when whey embrace western values more than any other middle eastern country other than turkey, while sunni saudi is considered good for beating women for not keeping the correct number of paces behind their husband or for executing women for being raped as they deem all rape the womens ault not the perp who raped them.

You literally are claiming iran is evil yet backing the nation with one of the worst human rights on planet earth, north korea is the only one I can think of with worse human rights but iran must be the evil one.

Apocalypse said:

Iran directs terrorists to murder innocent people.
Israel and the US do no such thing. You made a claim about Israel supporting al-Qaeda, where is the proof of that?
Simply repeating propaganda nonsense without basing anything is absurd. Show us when Israel supported an organization targeting innocent people.

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The us literally did do such a thing with the contra rebels, and israel backed bloodthirsty sunni terrorists as well, both have been exposed, and niether israel nor the united states have actually denied it. Infact if state sponsored terror was followed by definition not the united states wierd ass rules for the label, the us would be the largest state sponsor of terror not iran.

nitroexpress said:

You are misinterpreting my stance (intentionally?). I'm a realist and clearly you are not.

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Nitroexpress:

Okay Mr. Realism. Please explain what the US should do and how it should do it in order to solve the Iran issue. Keep in mind that your military and State Department have effectively failed to win wars or the peace in both Afghanistan and Iraq, so offer up the magic recipe in your realistic scenario that will win in Iran. Please explain how attacking Iran will convince it that it has no need for nuclear weapons, long range missiles and armed regional proxies. Please explain how an attack on Iran will further the interests of peace and stability in the greater Middle East and Persia. Are you realistically planning regime change in Iran and if so, how do you propose to achieve that change given America's dismal history in that facet of statecraft? Given that you have failed to subdue 38 million Afghans and 39 million Iraqis, how do you think you'll fare with 83 million Iranians?

Or worse still how will you manage to subdue 160 million Afghans + Iraqis + Iranians when you've failed to break even a quarter of that number? What will you do when your global enemies and rivals take advantage of your country's military over-commitment in this region by causing a military cascade to overwhelm your military resources globally when China, North Korea and Russia take advantage of your over-commitment of military resources in the ME/Persia in order to overrun Hong Kong, invade Taiwan, invade South Korea, invade Ukraine and Moldova and cyber attack the USA into chaos? Such cascades are how world wars start and I am willing to wager that WWIII will not end well for anyone.

As long as Americans (or Russians, or Koreans, or Saudis, or Iranians) think that war is the only solution to the world's problems this stupidity will continue. Get a bigger tool box and put some new tools into the damned box, other than war, you pugilistic dolts. War doesn't solve problems. It only determines who gets to clean up the mess afterwards.

So let's hear your magic recipe for successfully defeating Iran quickly, without a huge American body count, and your plan for ending Iran's capability to build proxy forces, missiles, launchers, and in short order nuclear weapons.

Or is this all about you wanting to blow up $h!t and kill all sorts of people in far off places?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Evilroddy said:

So let's hear your magic recipe for successfully defeating Iran quickly, without a huge American body count, and your plan for ending Iran's capability to build proxy forces, missiles, launchers, and in short order nuclear weapons.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

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Do I get paid for educating you? I never said I had a end game solution, do you? But it is clear that Iran is in an ever tightening box and is lashing out. Will hugs stop them? Nah, they don’t want to change their ways. If things continue, do you really think that Iran won’t feel emboldened and more attacks will happen? In fact, is there any reason for them to march towards ICBM’s with nuclear tips? Surly they don’t need such things to attack Saudi or Israel.
No magic recipe, never claimed that there was one. Bully 101. If a bully smacks you, do you ignore it and cry for mamma or what? You don't my post, then give an alternative. Surly Mr. Evil can think of something. Get nasty, get real.
You need to sharpen your strawman building skills.

nitroexpress said:

Do I get paid for educating you? I never said I had a end game solution, do you? But it is clear that Iran is in an ever tightening box and is lashing out. Will hugs stop them? Nah, they don’t want to change their ways. If things continue, do you really think that Iran won’t feel emboldened and more attacks will happen? In fact, is there any reason for them to march towards ICBM’s with nuclear tips? Surly they don’t need such things to attack Saudi or Israel.
No magic recipe, never claimed that there was one. Bully 101. If a bully smacks you, do you ignore it and cry for mamma or what? You don't my post, then give an alternative. Surly Mr. Evil can think of something. Get nasty, get real.
You need to sharpen your strawman building skills.

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Any commander who starts hostilities without clear goals and an end game/exit strategy is a dangerous idiot.

My solution is to stop squeezing Iran, reennter the JCPOA agreement, encourage both Saudi Arabia and Iran to secularise by both greater engagement and by threatening to switch sides in the Middle Eastern Cold War and thus discipline both countries by soft power means until they can coexist in peace. Separate the missile and proxy issues from the nuclear agreement and negotiate those in separate treaties/agreements. Work with other states to repair the Middle East which your militarism has broken and give the region a measure of stability so it can have the space to sort out its own problems. Stop supporting tyrants like el-Sisi in Egypt or the Saudi Royal family. It was stupid US policy and militarism which destroyed the Iraqi state after overthrowing Hussein and this destruction created the vacuum into which Iran both entered willingly and also found itself sucked into. More war is not the solution and will only drive Iran into the arms of both Russia and China in a massive Eurasian military and economic bloc. America can't fix the world, learn some humility and stop the arrogant hubris that, you know better than the locals. You don't.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

beerftw said:

The us literally did do such a thing with the contra rebels, and israel backed bloodthirsty sunni terrorists as well, both have been exposed, and niether israel nor the united states have actually denied it. Infact if state sponsored terror was followed by definition not the united states wierd ass rules for the label, the us would be the largest state sponsor of terror not iran.

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I asked when is it doing this now, not what happened with the Contra rebels decades ago.
What "Sunni terrorists" is Israel backing?

Do you realize it's the third or fourth time you post propaganda nonsense without basing it?

beerftw said:

But how is the shia iran more evil when whey embrace western values more than any other middle eastern country other than turkey, while sunni saudi is considered good for beating women for not keeping the correct number of paces behind their husband or for executing women for being raped as they deem all rape the womens ault not the perp who raped them.

You literally are claiming iran is evil yet backing the nation with one of the worst human rights on planet earth, north korea is the only one I can think of with worse human rights but iran must be the evil one.

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Because Iran targets Western people and Saudi Arabia doesn't.
Iran commits terrorist attacks through proxy groups against Sunni and Western people all the time. It is by far the no.1 sponsor of terrorism on this planet, responsible for the murder of an endless amount of innocnet people targeted mainly for what ethnicity or religion they belong to. As we speak Iran is trying to murder more people through such attacks, whether in Europe, the US, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Palestinian territories, Yemen, Afghanistan or wherever else. They are responsible for attempted/successful terror attacks in Bulgaria, Thailand, Argentina and elsewhere as well. The regime ruling there is one that seeks to commit attacks and as many as possible on everything Western or Sunni.

It's fairly simple. I don't back Saudi Arabia, but Iran is certainly evil and you shouldn't promote this kind of evil.

Apocalypse said:

Because Iran targets Western people and Saudi Arabia doesn't.

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Sheikh Mohammad bin Salman of Saudi Arabia has journalists that disagree with him dismembered.

Perhaps you consider this acceptable behavior, but I certainly don't.

Rogue Valley said:

Sheikh Mohammad bin Salman of Saudi Arabia has journalists that disagree with him dismembered.

Perhaps you consider this acceptable behavior, but I certainly don't.

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How is that relevant to what I said or how does it show that I find it acceptable to kill journalists?

Apocalypse said:

How is that relevant to what I said or how does it show that I find it acceptable to kill journalists?

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It shows Iran isn't the only bad actor duh.

Rogue Valley said:

It shows Iran isn't the only bad actor duh.

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I referred to bad as in harming the interests and citizens of Western countries, not in general.
Of course a theocratic regime is bad whether it's a Sunni or Shi'ite one. The Iranian regime however is targeting Western nations through an endless amount of proxy terror attacks.