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Trump's envoy clashes with Afghan government over proposed Taliban deal

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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Trump's envoy clashes with Afghan government over proposed Taliban deal

Afghan officials had "raging arguments" with U.S. envoy Zalmay Khalilzad over the proposed troop withdrawal deal with the Taliban.

en800-17.jpg

US Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation Zalmay Khalilzad.

9/5/19
WASHINGTON — The Afghan government has clashed with President Donald Trump's envoy over a proposed troop withdrawal deal with the Taliban, just as Washington is preparing to unveil the agreement, foreign diplomats, Afghan officials and former U.S. officials said. Afghan officials and U.S. special envoy Zalmay Khalilzad had tense exchanges in Kabul over the past few days after the American diplomat briefed President Ashraf Ghani and his advisers on the proposed deal with the Taliban, a foreign diplomat and two former U.S. officials said. Ghani's government responded to the briefing "badly" and the discussions were marked by "raging arguments," said one foreign diplomat familiar with the talks. The State Department declined to comment on the discussions in Kabul or on details of the proposed U.S.-Taliban deal.

The proposed agreement "in principle" with the Taliban would see the phased withdrawal of U.S. troops in return for the Taliban agreeing to enter into peace talks with the Afghan government and pledging not to allow areas under their control to be used as a launching pad for al Qaeda, Islamic State or other terrorist groups. Khalilzad said this week that if the agreement is approved by President Trump, the United States would initially pull out about 5,000 troops in 135 days. "The concerns are very high, not just for the government but also for the people of Afghanistan, because the people of Afghanistan have been bitten by this snake before," Waheed Omer, a senior adviser to the Afghan president, told a press briefing in Kabul on Thursday. "We are still not assured of what the agreement's consequences could have for Afghanistan's future," Omer said. "Our position is that we need more debate on this agreement."
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Basically, Trump intends to withdraw regardless of the strategic/tactical situation because he wants an Afghan withdrawal in time for his 2020 re-election campaign.

The Afghan government has not been included in the US/Taliban talks in Geneva.

To ratchet up the negotiating pressure on the US in Geneva, the Taliban have been busy launching suicide bomb attacks in large Afghan cities. A Taliban bombing at a wedding last month killed 63.

After nearly 18 years we do need to get out of that unholy mess. Unfortunately, a lot of good Afghans are going to suffer horrendously under Taliban rule.

Related: US service member killed in Kabul suicide car bomb attack

Taliban Conduct Attacks in Afghanistan Amid Peace Negotiations
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump's envoy clashes with Afghan government over proposed Taliban deal

Afghan officials had "raging arguments" with U.S. envoy Zalmay Khalilzad over the proposed troop withdrawal deal with the Taliban.

en800-17.jpg

US Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation Zalmay Khalilzad.



Basically, Trump intends to withdraw regardless of the strategic/tactical situation because he wants an Afghan withdrawal in time for his 2020 re-election campaign.

The Afghan government has not been included in the US/Taliban talks in Geneva.

To ratchet up the negotiating pressure on the US in Geneva, the Taliban have been busy launching suicide bomb attacks in large Afghan cities. A Taliban bombing at a wedding last month killed 63.

After nearly 18 years we do need to get out of that unholy mess. Unfortunately, a lot of good Afghans are going to suffer horrendously under Taliban rule.

Related: US service member killed in Kabul suicide car bomb attack

Taliban Conduct Attacks in Afghanistan Amid Peace Negotiations
Click to expand...



When the US is 100% out of Afghanistan, it's a good chance their gov't will still not be included in any talks with the Taliban, unless to acquiesce.

There is no such thing as a solution to Afghanistan as a nation-state that the US has any control over whatsoever. That we must hold ourselves responsible for having "broken" the chinaware is to see we must unfry the egg and put Humpty-Dumpty back together again. It can't be done. Same thing with Iraq where we got rid of the existing stable government for no provable reason at all, by pre-emptive strike, a first.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump's envoy clashes with Afghan government over proposed Taliban deal

Afghan officials had "raging arguments" with U.S. envoy Zalmay Khalilzad over the proposed troop withdrawal deal with the Taliban.

en800-17.jpg

US Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation Zalmay Khalilzad.



Basically, Trump intends to withdraw regardless of the strategic/tactical situation because he wants an Afghan withdrawal in time for his 2020 re-election campaign.

The Afghan government has not been included in the US/Taliban talks in Geneva.

To ratchet up the negotiating pressure on the US in Geneva, the Taliban have been busy launching suicide bomb attacks in large Afghan cities. A Taliban bombing at a wedding last month killed 63.

After nearly 18 years we do need to get out of that unholy mess. Unfortunately, a lot of good Afghans are going to suffer horrendously under Taliban rule.

Related: US service member killed in Kabul suicide car bomb attack

Taliban Conduct Attacks in Afghanistan Amid Peace Negotiations
Click to expand...

It is terrible, but there is nothing for it. Trying to keep Afghanistan together is like trying to keep Yugoslavia together post-Tito, i.e. absolutely impossible unless we are willing to be just as brutal as Tito.
 
bluesmoke said:
When the US is 100% out of Afghanistan, it's a good chance their gov't will still not be included in any talks with the Taliban, unless to acquiesce.

There is no such thing as a solution to Afghanistan as a nation-state that the US has any control over whatsoever. That we must hold ourselves responsible for having "broken" the chinaware is to see we must unfry the egg and put Humpty-Dumpty back together again. It can't be done. Same thing with Iraq where we got rid of the existing stable government for no provable reason at all, by pre-emptive strike, a first.
Click to expand...

Ironically, or perhaps not, Zalmay Khalilzad also participated in Iraq negotiations.
 
Felis Leo said:
It is terrible, but there is nothing for it. Trying to keep Afghanistan together is like trying to keep Yugoslavia together post-Tito, i.e. absolutely impossible unless we are willing to be just as brutal as Tito.
Click to expand...

And even then one has to question whether that would be effective. For a people who have known war and brutality for decades, you'd have to really dial up the horrors and be prepared to expend a lot of resources to make that happen.
 
bluesmoke said:
When the US is 100% out of Afghanistan, it's a good chance their gov't will still not be included in any talks with the Taliban, unless to acquiesce.

There is no such thing as a solution to Afghanistan as a nation-state that the US has any control over whatsoever. That we must hold ourselves responsible for having "broken" the chinaware is to see we must unfry the egg and put Humpty-Dumpty back together again. It can't be done. Same thing with Iraq where we got rid of the existing stable government for no provable reason at all, by pre-emptive strike, a first.
Click to expand...

At least in the case of Iraq there was a semblance of a nation there in terms of infrastructure. Afghanistan is a very different place, so you're not going to control Kabul and assume the rest of the country will acquiesce. That we're now having to negotiate with the Taliban shows how much of a failed venture this has been, and an absolute travesty we've subjected US soldiers to years of combat with no real tenable goal.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Ironically, or perhaps not, Zalmay Khalilzad also participated in Iraq negotiations.
Click to expand...



Perfect. Iranians can speak Arabic. It's only one letter away from Persian, and a bit of accent. Zalmay can use his distinctive expertise in any re-renegotiation with Iran.
 
ElChupacabra said:
At least in the case of Iraq there was a semblance of a nation there in terms of infrastructure. Afghanistan is a very different place, so you're not going to control Kabul and assume the rest of the country will acquiesce. That we're now having to negotiate with the Taliban shows how much of a failed venture this has been, and an absolute travesty we've subjected US soldiers to years of combat with no real tenable goal.
Click to expand...



"At least in the case of Iraq there was a semblance of a nation there in terms of infrastructure."


Yeah. And we destroyed it and it has not come close to recovering.

"Afghanistan is a very different place, so you're not going to control Kabul and assume the rest of the country will acquiesce. That we're now having to negotiate with the Taliban shows how much of a failed venture this has been, and an absolute travesty we've subjected US soldiers to years of combat with no real tenable goal."

What ever made us think that regardless of the best laid plans of mice and men, we could do better than Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, the Mughal Empire of India, various Persian Empires, the British Empire and the Soviet Union, all of whom invaded Afghanistan like so many other nations did, but were harassed all the while there before leaving after having lost great blood and treasure without any gain?
 
bluesmoke said:
"At least in the case of Iraq there was a semblance of a nation there in terms of infrastructure."


Yeah. And we destroyed it and it has not come close to recovering.

"Afghanistan is a very different place, so you're not going to control Kabul and assume the rest of the country will acquiesce. That we're now having to negotiate with the Taliban shows how much of a failed venture this has been, and an absolute travesty we've subjected US soldiers to years of combat with no real tenable goal."

What ever made us think that regardless of the best laid plans of mice and men, we could do better than Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, the Mughal Empire of India, various Persian Empires, the British Empire and the Soviet Union, all of whom invaded Afghanistan like so many other nations did, but were harassed all the while there before leaving after having lost great blood and treasure without any gain?
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Yep. It was clear very early on that there was going to be no effective way to bring the entire country under the US heel given that so much of it is rural and dependent on the cooperation of a variety of tribal leaders. They're used to the terrain and subsisting in their arid environment, so it's not as if taking over ports and cities would cripple them. Now we're back to square one; dealing with the same people who we ousted and will continue the same dark ages practices.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Yep. It was clear very early on that there was going to be no effective way to bring the entire country under the US heel given that so much of it is rural and dependent on the cooperation of a variety of tribal leaders. They're used to the terrain and subsisting in their arid environment, so it's not as if taking over ports and cities would cripple them. Now we're back to square one; dealing with the same people who we ousted and will continue the same dark ages practices.
Click to expand...



The terrain itself makes for tribal rule. If the bear goes over the mountain to see what he can see, all that he can see is the other side of the mountain and get shot.
 
There is no good solution to this. That we still have service members dying for no reason is a travesty. We refuse to consider history when we throw our weight around.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump's envoy clashes with Afghan government over proposed Taliban deal

Afghan officials had "raging arguments" with U.S. envoy Zalmay Khalilzad over the proposed troop withdrawal deal with the Taliban.

en800-17.jpg

US Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation Zalmay Khalilzad.



Basically, Trump intends to withdraw regardless of the strategic/tactical situation because he wants an Afghan withdrawal in time for his 2020 re-election campaign.

The Afghan government has not been included in the US/Taliban talks in Geneva.

To ratchet up the negotiating pressure on the US in Geneva, the Taliban have been busy launching suicide bomb attacks in large Afghan cities. A Taliban bombing at a wedding last month killed 63.

After nearly 18 years we do need to get out of that unholy mess. Unfortunately, a lot of good Afghans are going to suffer horrendously under Taliban rule.

Related: US service member killed in Kabul suicide car bomb attack

Taliban Conduct Attacks in Afghanistan Amid Peace Negotiations
Click to expand...

Western Afghan Fighting Rages As Taliban Keeps Up Attacks Despite Peace Efforts

The Taliban have placed a gun to the head of US negotiators.
 
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