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Been reading The Islam in Islamic Terrorism by Ibn Warraq

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wndrer41

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I've been reading this book for the past week. Very interesting at the very least. But from what I've gathered so far, the author seems to have a bias against Islam. I'm not sure if he is an Arab-<insert nationality here> or not. Anyone else read this book?
 
wndrer41 said:
I've been reading this book for the past week. Very interesting at the very least. But from what I've gathered so far, the author seems to have a bias against Islam. I'm not sure if he is an Arab-<insert nationality here> or not. Anyone else read this book?
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No, never heard of it.

But since this is your "opening salvo" post as a new member of the Forum (btw, welcome to the Forum :) ) why don't you go ahead and point out:

1. Why you think this is an important book for anyone to read, and

2. Some examples of the authors "bias against Islam."

IMO bias is a relative term, especially when it comes to religion. Some people inherently favor their own religious beliefs over those of other religions, while also trying to keep an open mind. Meanwhile others are clearly religious fanatics.

Then there is the fact that most major religions have sponsored some pretty horrendous things throughout history in the pursuit of religious dominance. IMO it is not necessarily an example of bias to point such examples out.
 
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wndrer41 said:
I've been reading this book for the past week. Very interesting at the very least. But from what I've gathered so far, the author seems to have a bias against Islam. I'm not sure if he is an Arab-<insert nationality here> or not. Anyone else read this book?
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard.

You may wish to elaborate a bit, as Captain Adverse has pointed out.
 
I have no interest in reading any book that he or anyone else with such an obvious agenda writes. Irrespective of the topic.
 
1. Well, I'm about 100 pages into the book, and the most obvious thing is that it explains a lot about The Koran and it's 'way to live' laws. I haven't read The Koran, yet. It also points out how the West gets the Islamic Terrorist's thinking wrong.

2. People interpret things differently in their own minds. That's a given. But the author blatantly points out, with quotes from the Koran, that the Koran and those who believe in it are 'Anti-Semites and haters of Christians'. He follows the idea that all Muslims follow the Koran word for word. I don't have any experience with Muslims, but I'd like to think that, like the Bible, as I said, it's up to personal interpretation. And the author gives his 'West is the Best' speech.

3. Yes, you are correct.

4. I agree on this as well.

The only reason I am continuing reading the book is because I am learning about the Koran and the thought processes of the Muslims who follow the Koran implicitly. Sharia law.
 
wndrer41 said:
1. Well, I'm about 100 pages into the book, and the most obvious thing is that it explains a lot about The Koran and it's 'way to live' laws. I haven't read The Koran, yet. It also points out how the West gets the Islamic Terrorist's thinking wrong.

2. People interpret things differently in their own minds. That's a given. But the author blatantly points out, with quotes from the Koran, that the Koran and those who believe in it are 'Anti-Semites and haters of Christians'. He follows the idea that all Muslims follow the Koran word for word. I don't have any experience with Muslims, but I'd like to think that, like the Bible, as I said, it's up to personal interpretation. And the author gives his 'West is the Best' speech.

3. Yes, you are correct.

4. I agree on this as well.

The only reason I am continuing reading the book is because I am learning about the Koran and the thought processes of the Muslims who follow the Koran implicitly. Sharia law.
Click to expand...

The Quran is oftentimes at odds with itself and can state two very oppositional things of the same nature.

Much depends on the period in the Prophet's life a passage was uttered ... pre or post Mecca. Pre is a pacifist/humanistic worldview while post is a militant/oppressive worldview.
 
Serenity said:
I have no interest in reading any book that he or anyone else with such an obvious agenda writes. Irrespective of the topic.
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What about books with an 'obvious agenda' of anti Communism or anti-Naziism? Or do you only read things which are entirely bland and devoid of all opinions? IF SO STOP READING NOW.

I detest Islam and think this oppressive and totalitarian philosophy is incompatible with civilised values of tolerance and freedom.
 
wndrer41 said:
1. Well, I'm about 100 pages into the book, and the most obvious thing is that it explains a lot about The Koran and it's 'way to live' laws. I haven't read The Koran, yet. It also points out how the West gets the Islamic Terrorist's thinking wrong.

2. People interpret things differently in their own minds. That's a given. But the author blatantly points out, with quotes from the Koran, that the Koran and those who believe in it are 'Anti-Semites and haters of Christians'. He follows the idea that all Muslims follow the Koran word for word. I don't have any experience with Muslims, but I'd like to think that, like the Bible, as I said, it's up to personal interpretation. And the author gives his 'West is the Best' speech.

3. Yes, you are correct.

4. I agree on this as well.

The only reason I am continuing reading the book is because I am learning about the Koran and the thought processes of the Muslims who follow the Koran implicitly. Sharia law.
Click to expand...

He suggests that the acts of ISIS or the Taliban or any other jihadist group are not random acts of violence by a mob of psychopathic animals and that they are simply following the Quran.

He is supporting the extremism of ISIS by falsely stating propaganda that their perception and interpretation of Islam is the embodiment of Islam which is complete nonsense. He does not get to decide how every Muslim interprets their religion.

If ISIS or any other pathetic terrorist group is the embodiment of Islam, explain why the vast majority of Muslims do not support or behave like them.
 
Sweden said:
What about books with an 'obvious agenda' of anti Communism or anti-Naziism? Or do you only read things which are entirely bland and devoid of all opinions? IF SO STOP READING NOW.

I detest Islam and think this oppressive and totalitarian philosophy is incompatible with civilised values of tolerance and freedom.
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I detest any form of extremism.

I have no beef with the vast majority of Muslims.
 
Serenity said:
I detest any form of extremism.

I have no beef with the vast majority of Muslims.
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Yeah, even though my exposure to Islam and Muslims have been minimal, the Muslims I knew were pretty laid back. In fact, I had a couple Muslim friends from Morocco. They were really cool guys. One of them tried to convert me to Islam by putting on these VHS tapes (yes, that long ago!) of various videos of Islam. One I remember is the journey of the Hajj.
 
wndrer41 said:
1. Well, I'm about 100 pages into the book, and the most obvious thing is that it explains a lot about The Koran and it's 'way to live' laws. I haven't read The Koran, yet. It also points out how the West gets the Islamic Terrorist's thinking wrong.

2. People interpret things differently in their own minds. That's a given. But the author blatantly points out, with quotes from the Koran, that the Koran and those who believe in it are 'Anti-Semites and haters of Christians'. He follows the idea that all Muslims follow the Koran word for word. I don't have any experience with Muslims, but I'd like to think that, like the Bible, as I said, it's up to personal interpretation. And the author gives his 'West is the Best' speech.

3. Yes, you are correct.

4. I agree on this as well.

The only reason I am continuing reading the book is because I am learning about the Koran and the thought processes of the Muslims who follow the Koran implicitly. Sharia law.
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard the DP Forum wdnrer41:

Not Sharia Law but Koranic Law. Koranic Law comes from the Quran but Sharia Law has regional and tribal social customs laminated upon the religious superstructure of Koranic Law.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The Quran is oftentimes at odds with itself and can state two very oppositional things of the same nature.

Much depends on the period in the Prophet's life a passage was uttered ... pre or post Mecca. Pre is a pacifist/humanistic worldview while post is a militant/oppressive worldview.
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Rogue Valley:

Your second paragraph is spot on. Well said! Your first paragraph was right too but the second caught my attention as being a succinct and cogent analysis in a nut-shell.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Welcome aboard the DP Forum wdnrer41:

Not Sharia Law but Koranic Law. Koranic Law comes from the Quran but Sharia Law has regional and tribal social customs laminated upon the religious superstructure of Koranic Law.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Actually the book I was reading says it's Sharia. Maybe it's wrong?
 
wndrer41 said:
I've been reading this book for the past week. Very interesting at the very least. But from what I've gathered so far, the author seems to have a bias against Islam. I'm not sure if he is an Arab-<insert nationality here> or not. Anyone else read this book?
Click to expand...

Ibn Warraq is a pseudonymn for an Indian writer fron Gujarat who is vehemently anti-Muslim and anti-Islam. In choosing that name he is following in a centuries-old tradition of anonymous criticism of Islam under that name. It means, "son of the paperwright/paper maker". He is the founder of The Institute for the Secularisation of Islamic Society which would like to see Islam neutered into a ritual system rather than a way of life. Not surprisingly such views do not sit well with the more enthusiastic Muslims of the Islamic faith and thus the need for anonymity in his cause.

If you want to learn more about Muslims, then I recommend a visit or two to a local mosque in or near wherever you live. Most Muslims are fine and generous people with fascinating cultures and really great food! MMM, kebeh! Soon you'll be able to spot the fundamentalist minority and either steer clear or engage them respectfully from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance.

About reading the Quran, to do it properly you must learn to read Arabic, but there are good English translations out there. Just get two or three different translations to get different nuances of the translations you use. And don't argue with real or self-anointed Muslim scholars, as they will insist that the Arabic interpretation is different from your understanding, and they might be right!

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The Quran is oftentimes at odds with itself and can state two very oppositional things of the same nature.

Much depends on the period in the Prophet's life a passage was uttered ... pre or post Mecca. Pre is a pacifist/humanistic worldview while post is a militant/oppressive worldview.
Click to expand...

You forgot to add that anything in the post Mecca (Medina) Koran, abrogates what is in the pre Medina (Mecca) Koran.
 
Evilroddy said:
Ibn Warraq is a pseudonymn for an Indian writer fron Gujarat who is vehemently anti-Muslim and anti-Islam. In choosing that name he is following in a centuries-old tradition of anonymous criticism of Islam under that name. It means, "son of the paperwright/paper maker". He is the founder of The Institute for the Secularisation of Islamic Society which would like to see Islam neutered into a ritual system rather than a way of life. Not surprisingly such views do not sit well with the more enthusiastic Muslims of the Islamic faith and thus the need for anonymity in his cause.

If you want to learn more about Muslims, then I recommend a visit or two to a local mosque in or near wherever you live. Most Muslims are fine and generous people with fascinating cultures and really great food! MMM, kebeh! Soon you'll be able to spot the fundamentalist minority and either steer clear or engage them respectfully from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance.

About reading the Quran, to do it properly you must learn to read Arabic, but there are good English translations out there. Just get two or three different translations to get different nuances of the translations you use. And don't argue with real or self-anointed Muslim scholars, as they will insist that the Arabic interpretation is different from your understanding, and they might be right!

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Hi Evilroddy,

Thank you for the information! I was going to put the book down due to its Anti-Muslim rhetoric but wanted to continue to see what else the author wrote. Looks like you outed him and I'm actually grateful to know that. I do want to read the Koran, but my Arabic is non-existent, so I will have to read an English translation. I'd love to pick your brain on the Middle East, as I am just learning to become a scholar in Middle East studies.
 
Evilroddy said:
Ibn Warraq is a pseudonymn for an Indian writer fron Gujarat who is vehemently anti-Muslim and anti-Islam. In choosing that name he is following in a centuries-old tradition of anonymous criticism of Islam under that name. It means, "son of the paperwright/paper maker". He is the founder of The Institute for the Secularisation of Islamic Society which would like to see Islam neutered into a ritual system rather than a way of life. Not surprisingly such views do not sit well with the more enthusiastic Muslims of the Islamic faith and thus the need for anonymity in his cause.

If you want to learn more about Muslims, then I recommend a visit or two to a local mosque in or near wherever you live. Most Muslims are fine and generous people with fascinating cultures and really great food! MMM, kebeh! Soon you'll be able to spot the fundamentalist minority and either steer clear or engage them respectfully from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance.

About reading the Quran, to do it properly you must learn to read Arabic, but there are good English translations out there. Just get two or three different translations to get different nuances of the translations you use. And don't argue with real or self-anointed Muslim scholars, as they will insist that the Arabic interpretation is different from your understanding, and they might be right!

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

I've had kebabs when I lived in London. Delicious!
 
wndrer41 said:
I've had kebabs when I lived in London. Delicious!
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Wndrer41:

Not kebab but kebeh/kibbeh. Delicious meat pasties with fine ground meat (lamb and/or beef) seasoned with onions and garlic.
To die for.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Wndrer41:

Not kebab but kebeh/kibbeh. Delicious meat pasties with fine ground meat (lamb and/or beef) seasoned with onions and garlic.
To die for.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Oh that sounds good!
 
wndrer41 said:
Actually the book I was reading says it's Sharia. Maybe it's wrong?
Click to expand...

Wndrer41:

Not wrong so much as incomplete. Sharia law is derived from four or five sources. One the Qur'an (Qur'anic Law) the Sunnahs (Hadith Authenticated Tradition concerning the prophet's life), Qiyas (Religions scholarly reasoning based on analogies and interpretation), Ijma (judicial consensus) and sometimes fiqh (religious/legal jurisprudence). The fiqhs were expressed through religious commands/opinions called Fatwas which are made and unmade through a process of religious/legal consensus building. The role of fiqh is often included in in ijma. The cultural, regional and tribal components come in in the Sunbah, Qiyas and Ijma stages of the process.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Evilroddy said:
About reading the Quran, to do it properly you must learn to read Arabic...
Click to expand...

Classical Quranic Arabic (the Fusha dialect) is the equivalent of Shakespearean English.

Probably the best modern bet is the MISR [Egyptian dialect] Arabic Quran.

Al-Azhar University in Cairo is Egypt's oldest and is considered Sunni Islam’s most prestigious university.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Classical Quranic Arabic (the Fusha dialect) is the equivalent of Shakespearean English.

Probably the best modern bet is the MISR [Egyptian dialect] Arabic Quran.

Al-Azhar University in Cairo is Egypt's oldest and is considered Sunni Islam’s most prestigious university.
Click to expand...

Do you know anything about the MISR [Egyptian dialect] Arabic Quran ?
 
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