Why are Some People so UNFAIR to Israel??

truthatallcost · Mar 13, 2019

Oh, here's why. Take it George-

The further away we stray from the wisdom of our Founders, the more lost, fractured, and divided we will become. The USA was never intended to be a satellite nation for Israel. Our House, Senate, and White House are controlled by people who do Israel's bidding. Homelessness blights our American cities, while our President gifts $38 billion to Make Israel Great. We have been successfully infiltrated, and pacified like no other nation in history.

Washington DC-D.C. has the highest homeless rate of 32 U.S. cities, a new survey finds

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2a56b1dcc21f

Israel

Don with his one true love.

5484078-6324057-Trump_receives_a_kiss_on_the_cheek_from_Rabbi_Benjamin_Sendrow_a-a-45_1540674307957.jpg

Nemiroff · Mar 13, 2019

truthatallcost said:
Oh, here's why. Take it George-

The further away we stray from the wisdom of our Founders, the more lost, fractured, and divided we will become. The USA was never intended to be a satellite nation for Israel. Our House, Senate, and White House are controlled by people who do Israel's bidding. Homelessness blights our American cities, while our President gifts $38 billion to Make Israel Great. We have been successfully infiltrated, and pacified like no other nation in history.

Washington DC-D.C. has the highest homeless rate of 32 U.S. cities, a new survey finds

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2a56b1dcc21f

Israel

Don with his one true love.

I cant speak for this administration but the only aid we give Israel is military as it is surrounded by enemy nations and terrorists. Kinda like how we help South Korea. We dont subsidize their domestic programs. I agree that our congress should focus on american interests, I disagree with this foreign takeover conspiracy.

Obscurity · Mar 13, 2019

Trump ought to run for office over there then.

truthatallcost · Mar 13, 2019

Nemiroff said:
I cant speak for this administration but the only aid we give Israel is military as it is surrounded by enemy nations and terrorists. Kinda like how we help South Korea. We dont subsidize their domestic programs.

One prior head of AIPAC was recorded bragging about getting the President to give 'extra goodies' to Israel that were part of the usual $3.3 billion annual aid budget. These were not part of the public record, so I have no way of knowing what they consisted of. I can't think of any other nation which was allowed to use our facilities in Florida to launch their own space craft though. I believe you subsidized that.

I agree that our congress should focus on american interests, I disagree with this foreign takeover conspiracy.

There are no American interests, outside of the interest of the rich though. The top 100 donors to American politics are about 90% Jewish, 100% pro Israel, and tied to big business interests.

Nemiroff · Mar 14, 2019

truthatallcost said:
One prior head of AIPAC was recorded bragging about getting the President to give 'extra goodies' to Israel that were part of the usual $3.3 billion annual aid budget. These were not part of the public record, so I have no way of knowing what they consisted of. I can't think of any other nation which was allowed to use our facilities in Florida to launch their own space craft though. I believe you subsidized that.

There are no American interests, outside of the interest of the rich though. The top 100 donors to American politics are about 90% Jewish, 100% pro Israel, and tied to big business interests.

Not sure how to respond to the first part. When was this? Which president? Isnt appropriating funds congress only?

As for the second part, I disagree we are a plutocracy like Russia yet, although I do see that agenda materializing from one side of our political spectrum, there are certainly still politicians serving the people at large. There are 2 types of serving the wealthy. 1 on an individual basis, such as quid pro quo (bipartisan and universal). The other more systemic where our rights and our voices are taken away. And that is coming entirely from the right with policies like the party line citizens united ruling.

On to the Jews. I doubt its 90% but arent we a meritocracy where we shouldnt shame people for success? We should make it so that large scale money isnt funnelled into our politics regardless of the nationality or culture of the donor. Jews are hardly a monolith and make up large portions of donors on both sides; here and in israel. They are very divided in opinion, many support Israel's existence, but not its policies towards Palestine. Others support Israel, especially its policies towards Palestine. I dont think most sensible people are against the existence of Israel in general.

truthatallcost · Mar 14, 2019

Nemiroff said:
Not sure how to respond to the first part. When was this? Which president? Isnt appropriating funds congress only?

AIPAC President Steiner claimed that he had:

-met with (then Bush U.S. Secretary of State) Jim Baker and I cut a deal with him. I got, besides the $3 billion, you know they're looking for the Jewish votes, and I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear ... Besides the $10 billion in loan guarantees which was a fabulous thing, $3 billion in foreign, in military aid, and I got almost a billion dollars in other goodies that people don't even know about.

Steiner also claimed to be "negotiating" with the incoming Clinton administration over who Clinton would appoint as Secretary of State and Secretary of the National Security Agency. Steiner stated that AIPAC had "a dozen people in [the Clinton] campaign, in the headquarters... in Little Rock, and they're all going to get big jobs".

American Israel Public Affairs Committee - Wikipedia

I don't believe the gravity of the situation has sunken in for most Americans, despite AIPAC's leadership claiming dominance of the American political system 27 years ago now. Reality is still a 'conspiracy theory' to most Americans, unfortunately.

As for the second part, I disagree we are a plutocracy like Russia yet, although I do see that agenda materializing from one side of our political spectrum, there are certainly still politicians serving the people at large.

There are 2 types of serving the wealthy. 1 on an individual basis, such as quid pro quo (bipartisan and universal). The other more systemic where our rights and our voices are taken away. And that is coming entirely from the right with policies like the party line citizens united ruling.

"Among the best-known critical works about AIPAC is The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, by University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer and Harvard University Kennedy School of Government professor Stephen Walt. In the working paper and resulting book, they accuse AIPAC of being "the most powerful and best known" component of a larger pro-Israel lobby that distorts American foreign policy. They write:

AIPAC's success is due to its ability to reward legislators and congressional candidates who support its agenda, and to punish those who challenge it. ... AIPAC makes sure that its friends get strong financial support from the myriad pro-Israel PACs. Those seen as hostile to Israel, on the other hand, can be sure that AIPAC will direct campaign contributions to their political opponents. ... The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign government, has a stranglehold on the U.S. Congress. Open debate about U.S. policy towards Israel does not occur there, even though that policy has important consequences for the entire world."

American Israel Public Affairs Committee - Wikipedia

It's been stated that we Americans are so busy playing party politics, and being at our political rivals throats, that we've ignored the bigger threat at our door, which is foreign infiltration and subjugation by a state we've guarded and protected for 50 years now. I believe this to be an accurate representation of the current state of America.

truthatallcost · Mar 14, 2019

Nemiroff said:
On to the Jews. I doubt its 90% but arent we a meritocracy where we shouldnt shame people for success?

Are you serious? The dominant message of liberals for the past 50 years has been the 'institutionalized' racism, which has made white people rich, at the expense of others. Now you want to ignore all that in order to pat Jewish people on the back? Which race do Jewish folks belong to? When whites built silicon valley, went to space, and created the most egalitarian societies in the history of the world, we were shamed by the 'racist' way we achieved all that. Now that Jews are the elite, somehow it's OK to posit the 'master race' theory again. Very strange.

We should make it so that large scale money isnt funnelled into our politics regardless of the nationality or culture of the donor. Jews are hardly a monolith and make up large portions of donors on both sides; here and in israel. They are very divided in opinion, many support Israel's existence, but not its policies towards Palestine. Others support Israel, especially its policies towards Palestine. I dont think most sensible people are against the existence of Israel in general.

Well where's the 2 state solution lobbying group buying up our House and Senate votes? It doesn't exist, as far as I'm aware. The world has moved towards paying lip service to the plight of Palestinians since 9/11, and Muslim terrorism were hurled upon the American landscape many years ago. Netanyahu famously praised the results of 9/11, as benefitting Israel.

Nemiroff · Mar 15, 2019

truthatallcost said:
AIPAC President Steiner claimed that he had:

-met with (then Bush U.S. Secretary of State) Jim Baker and I cut a deal with him. I got, besides the $3 billion, you know they're looking for the Jewish votes, and I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear ... Besides the $10 billion in loan guarantees which was a fabulous thing, $3 billion in foreign, in military aid, and I got almost a billion dollars in other goodies that people don't even know about.

Steiner also claimed to be "negotiating" with the incoming Clinton administration over who Clinton would appoint as Secretary of State and Secretary of the National Security Agency. Steiner stated that AIPAC had "a dozen people in [the Clinton] campaign, in the headquarters... in Little Rock, and they're all going to get big jobs".

American Israel Public Affairs Committee - Wikipedia

I don't believe the gravity of the situation has sunken in for most Americans, despite AIPAC's leadership claiming dominance of the American political system 27 years ago now. Reality is still a 'conspiracy theory' to most Americans, unfortunately.

"Among the best-known critical works about AIPAC is The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, by University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer and Harvard University Kennedy School of Government professor Stephen Walt. In the working paper and resulting book, they accuse AIPAC of being "the most powerful and best known" component of a larger pro-Israel lobby that distorts American foreign policy. They write:

AIPAC's success is due to its ability to reward legislators and congressional candidates who support its agenda, and to punish those who challenge it. ... AIPAC makes sure that its friends get strong financial support from the myriad pro-Israel PACs. Those seen as hostile to Israel, on the other hand, can be sure that AIPAC will direct campaign contributions to their political opponents. ... The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign government, has a stranglehold on the U.S. Congress. Open debate about U.S. policy towards Israel does not occur there, even though that policy has important consequences for the entire world."

American Israel Public Affairs Committee - Wikipedia

It's been stated that we Americans are so busy playing party politics, and being at our political rivals throats, that we've ignored the bigger threat at our door, which is foreign infiltration and subjugation by a state we've guarded and protected for 50 years now. I believe this to be an accurate representation of the current state of America.

Once again, I am against all forms of lobbying. I'm not sure how much influence that is compared to other lobbies like the NRA, big oil, pharma, agriculture etc. It is more threatening that they are foreign, but that doesnt mean they have total control or anywhere near. I'm willing to bet each of those domestic lobbies have more influence then Israel.

Also are they really foreign? Or are they Americans who want to aid a spiritually sacred place. Would you consider american Catholics who vote to aid an under threat Vatican, traitors? The will of our nation is the will of the people, is it not?

Both parts of your post seem to be respond to the first part of my post you quoted. Nothing you said responded to the second quote from my post which talks about how we are not a plutocracy, and how despite agreeing with you that this degree party fighting is distracting and divide and conquer, it is the right that is pushing the plutocracy scenario with platforms that promote ideas like the party line citizens United ruling bringing more money into politics.

Nemiroff · Mar 15, 2019

truthatallcost said:
Are you serious? The dominant message of liberals for the past 50 years has been the 'institutionalized' racism, which has made white people rich, at the expense of others. Now you want to ignore all that in order to pat Jewish people on the back? Which race do Jewish folks belong to? When whites built silicon valley, went to space, and created the most egalitarian societies in the history of the world, we were shamed by the 'racist' way we achieved all that. Now that Jews are the elite, somehow it's OK to posit the 'master race' theory again. Very strange.

1. Institutionalized racism is the opposite of individual merit. If you start 20 paces ahead, your victory doesnt mean anything.

Also Jewish people often succeeded despite prejudice, not because of it.

2. I dont speak for "liberals". I speak for myself. This hive mind assumption is the most idiotic conspiracy theory on both sides.

Whites also had the most oppressive societies.

truthatallcost said:
Well where's the 2 state solution lobbying group buying up our House and Senate votes? It doesn't exist, as far as I'm aware. The world has moved towards paying lip service to the plight of Palestinians since 9/11, and Muslim terrorism were hurled upon the American landscape many years ago. Netanyahu famously praised the results of 9/11, as benefitting Israel.

Lobbying takes money, that's the whole problem. And if a Palestinian lobby would arise, it would come from the left, the one with already many Palestinian voices. Israel also wants a 2 state solution. Just on it's own terms.