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Chlorine likely used in attack on Syria town Douma, says OPCW

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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Chlorine likely used in attack on Syria town Douma, says OPCW

3dc8705a6a0f4dc3a39b5c0cfac3e7e1_18.jpg


3/2/19
The global chemical weapons watchdog has concluded that chlorine was likely used in an attack on the Syrian town of Douma last April. Inspectors at the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said on Friday that a "toxic chemical" containing chlorine was used in the attack on the town, at the time held by rebels but besieged by pro-government forces. The investigation did not assign blame, but the information gathered provided "reasonable grounds that the use of a toxic chemical as a weapon has taken place on 7 April 2018". "This toxic chemical contained reactive chlorine. The toxic chemical was likely molecular chlorine," the OPCW said in a statement.
Click to expand...

At the time of the Douma attack (4/18) the OPCW could investigate chemical weapon attacks and identify the chemical agent used, but could not identify the culprit. This OPCW rule was changed by majority vote in 6/18 despite a veto by Russia.

The red portion above is the deductive method by which the OPCW identifies the Bashar Assad regime as the culprit without actually naming the regime.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Chlorine likely used in attack on Syria town Douma, says OPCW

3dc8705a6a0f4dc3a39b5c0cfac3e7e1_18.jpg




At the time of the Douma attack (4/18) the OPCW could investigate chemical weapon attacks and identify the chemical agent used, but could not identify the culprit. This OPCW rule was changed by majority vote in 6/18 despite a veto by Russia.

The red portion above is the deductive method by which the OPCW identifies the Bashar Assad regime as the culprit without actually naming the regime.
Click to expand...


Rogue Valley:

From the quotation you yourself cited:

3/2/19
The global chemical weapons watchdog has concluded that chlorine was likely used in an attack on the Syrian town of Douma last April. Inspectors at the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said on Friday that a "toxic chemical" containing chlorine was used in the attack on the town, at the time held by rebels but besieged by pro-government forces. The investigation did not assign blame, but the information gathered provided "reasonable grounds that the use of a toxic chemical as a weapon has taken place on 7 April 2018". "This toxic chemical contained reactive chlorine. The toxic chemical was likely molecular chlorine," the OPCW said in a statement.
Click to expand...

The bolded and underlined section of your own quote contradicts your conclusion.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Chlorine likely used in attack on Syria town Douma, says OPCW

3dc8705a6a0f4dc3a39b5c0cfac3e7e1_18.jpg




At the time of the Douma attack (4/18) the OPCW could investigate chemical weapon attacks and identify the chemical agent used, but could not identify the culprit. This OPCW rule was changed by majority vote in 6/18 despite a veto by Russia.

The red portion above is the deductive method by which the OPCW identifies the Bashar Assad regime as the culprit without actually naming the regime.
Click to expand...

Investigative reporters have assigned blame to the White Helmets and a False Flag event.
\/
 
Robert Fisk Reaches Syria 'Chemical Attack' Site, Concludes "They Were Not Gassed"
“
It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”


“
It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”


“
It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”
 
DaveFagan said:
Investigative reporters have assigned blame to the White Helmets and a False Flag event.
\/
Click to expand...

That is funny.

An investigative reporter?

Who?

And when did he blame the White Helmets?

Actually we both know you are making **** up again.

Why do you lie about the White Helmets?
 
DaveFagan said:
Robert Fisk Reaches Syria 'Chemical Attack' Site, Concludes "They Were Not Gassed"
“
It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”


“
It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”


“
It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”
Click to expand...

Let's see... The words of a reporter... Or the findings of the OPCW.

Which has more merit?

Decisions, decisions...
 
I'll go with the reputable reporter, on the ground in Douma, shortly after the event. Live witnesses. Read the entire article, or get your mom to read it to you.

..-. ..-

\/
 
Fledermaus said:
Let's see... The words of a reporter... Or the findings of the OPCW.

Which has more merit?

Decisions, decisions...
Click to expand...

Fledermaus:

The OPCW did not assign blame. It only concluded an attack had occurred. So the findings of the OPCW do not contradict the findings of Robert Fisk, now do they?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Fledermaus said:
Let's see... The words of a reporter... Or the findings of the OPCW.

Which has more merit?

Decisions, decisions...
Click to expand...

Fledernaus ... as I posted in the OP the OPCW could not openly name the culprit previous to 6/18.

This gassing occurred in 4/18. Ergo, the OPCW circuitously named the culprit by specifying the attacking force (Bashar Assad forces).
 
Rogue Valley said:
Fledernaus ... as I posted in the OP the OPCW could not openly name the culprit previous to 6/18.

This gassing occurred in 4/18. Ergo, the OPCW circuitously named the culprit by specifying the attacking force (Bashar Assad forces).
Click to expand...

Actually, they did not. They found evidence of Chlorine in soil samples. Not necessarily associated with 4/18 or even 2018. Robert Fisk went on the ground in a timely manner and provided timely interviews of live witnesses. Old dirt or live witnesses? Gosh, how to decide which one to believe. A man risks his life to interview these witnesses. The dirt has been lying there and people, vehicles, bikes, carts, ambulances, soldiers, and who knows what else have dragged their dicks in it. The rebels had their gas stock there. Wowser! The only way to decide is to use the old CIA standby decision-making axiom. The narrative is whatever makes Assad look bad. No thinking required.
\/
 
Evilroddy said:
Fledermaus:

The OPCW did not assign blame. It only concluded an attack had occurred. So the findings of the OPCW do not contradict the findings of Robert Fisk, now do they?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Fisk said no gas. So, yes, the OPCW contradicts....

And it is noted that Russia fought the ability to name names by the OPCW.
 
DaveFagan said:
Actually, they did not. They found evidence of Chlorine in soil samples. Not necessarily associated with 4/18 or even 2018. Robert Fisk went on the ground in a timely manner and provided timely interviews of live witnesses. Old dirt or live witnesses? Gosh, how to decide which one to believe. A man risks his life to interview these witnesses. The dirt has been lying there and people, vehicles, bikes, carts, ambulances, soldiers, and who knows what else have dragged their dicks in it. The rebels had their gas stock there. Wowser! The only way to decide is to use the old CIA standby decision-making axiom. The narrative is whatever makes Assad look bad. No thinking required.
\/
Click to expand...

For every chemical attack, for every person injured or dead there should those many positions taken out, two seat jet, tank, antiaircraft bank so many positions.

Don't let the opposition use chemicals on themselves because they'll get something taken out for it.

Then if Assad wanted to use chemical weapons three hundred (300) times it would degrade him a little bit.

I don't care the **** how he looks.
 
DaveFagan said:
I'll go with the reputable reporter, on the ground in Douma, shortly after the event. Live witnesses. Read the entire article, or get your mom to read it to you.

..-. ..-

\/
Click to expand...

And the measuring equipments and expertise he brought the the event?

None of either.

Conspiracy-Theory thinking.

Scientific reports must be ignored since someone with zero expertise sez something counter.
 
DaveFagan said:
Actually, they did not. They found evidence of Chlorine in soil samples. Not necessarily associated with 4/18 or even 2018. Robert Fisk went on the ground in a timely manner and provided timely interviews of live witnesses. Old dirt or live witnesses? Gosh, how to decide which one to believe. A man risks his life to interview these witnesses. The dirt has been lying there and people, vehicles, bikes, carts, ambulances, soldiers, and who knows what else have dragged their dicks in it. The rebels had their gas stock there. Wowser! The only way to decide is to use the old CIA standby decision-making axiom. The narrative is whatever makes Assad look bad. No thinking required.
\/
Click to expand...

Intentional ignorance of scientific findings noted.
 
Also from the article:

From 2015 to 2017 a joint UN-OPCW team had been appointed to assign blame for chemical attacks in Syria. It found that Syrian government troops had used the nerve agent sarin and chlorine barrel bombs on several occasions, while the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS) fighters were found to have used sulphur mustard.
 
Fledermaus said:
Fisk said no gas. So, yes, the OPCW contradicts....

And it is noted that Russia fought the ability to name names by the OPCW.
Click to expand...

Fledermaus:

Both true statements and both immaterial to the question of who launched the attack.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Fledernaus ... as I posted in the OP the OPCW could not openly name the culprit previous to 6/18.

This gassing occurred in 4/18. Ergo, the OPCW circuitously named the culprit by specifying the attacking force (Bashar Assad forces).
Click to expand...

Rogue Valley:

As per your own citation:

3/2/19
The global chemical weapons watchdog has concluded that chlorine was likely used in an attack on the Syrian town of Douma last April. Inspectors at the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said on Friday that a "toxic chemical" containing chlorine was used in the attack on the town, at the time held by rebels but besieged by pro-government forces. The investigation did not assign blame, but the information gathered provided "reasonable grounds that the use of a toxic chemical as a weapon has taken place on 7 April 2018". "This toxic chemical contained reactive chlorine. The toxic chemical was likely molecular chlorine," the OPCW said in a statement.
Click to expand...

Bolding and underlining added by me.

Where does it say the attacking side launched the chemical attack or are you referring to another part of the report which you did not cite?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
From the Al Jazeera article cited in the OP:

This is a probability (albeit a reasonable probability), not a certainty. Nowhere in the article was guilt assigned either directly or indirectly.

The global chemical weapons watchdog has concluded that chlorine was likely used in an attack on the Syrian town of Douma last April.

Inspectors at the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said on Friday that a "toxic chemical" containing chlorine was used in the attack on the town, at the time held by rebels but besieged by pro-government forces.
Click to expand...

And:

The investigation did not assign blame, but the information gathered provided "reasonable grounds that the use of a toxic chemical as a weapon has taken place on 7 April 2018".

"This toxic chemical contained reactive chlorine. The toxic chemical was likely molecular chlorine," the OPCW said in a statement.
Click to expand...

Rogue Valley who is usually very careful in his commentary has unfortunately overstated the reporting in this article in this instance. This is not a mistake which he makes often (to be honest I can't recall another case off hand) but in this instance he has overreached.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Fledermaus said:
Since barrel bombs were Syrian choice of deployment for Chlorine and barrel remains were in the Douma site what can we conclude?
Click to expand...

Fledermaus:

We can conclude that the OPCW had that information too, if you are correct, and that they still only could conclude that it was likely that a chlorine weapons was used. The barrel fragments could have come from a previous and unrelated attack or a fake barrel bomb could have been surrepticiously detonated by the besieged militants in order to draw the attention of the international community in the last ditch hope that the seige would be lifted. This is of course speculation as was your barrel-bomb hypothesis.

The OPCW did chemical tests to detect chemical weapons or their chemical fingerprints but cannot and could not likely link the attack to a specific party. If they could then I am pretty sure that some intelligence agency or some OPCW employee would have leaked such damning evidence, despite the mandate limitations of the organisation to not assign blame.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Fledermaus:

We can conclude that the OPCW had that information too, if you are correct, and that they still only could conclude that it was likely that a chlorine weapons was used. The barrel fragments could have come from a previous and unrelated attack or a fake barrel bomb could have been surrepticiously detonated by the besieged militants in order to draw the attention of the international community in the last ditch hope that the seige would be lifted. This is of course speculation as was your barrel-bomb hypothesis.

The OPCW did chemical tests to detect chemical weapons or their chemical fingerprints but cannot and could not likely link the attack to a specific party. If they could then I am pretty sure that some intelligence agency or some OPCW employee would have leaked such damning evidence, despite the mandate limitations of the organisation to not assign blame.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Could have been radioactive mutant hamsters, thermo nuclear ferrets, or sub Atomic elephants....

What is the most likely scenario.
 
Fledermaus said:
Could have been radioactive mutant hamsters, thermo nuclear ferrets, or sub Atomic elephants....

What is the most likely scenario.
Click to expand...

Fledermaus.

Proof not Occam's razor and deductive reasoning to cull speculative options is needed to establish culpability.

Personally I suspect hateful halogen hoarding hippos from Homs. ;)

Cheers.
Evilroddy
 
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