• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Turkey seeks to arrest US military personnel

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
94,343
Reaction score
82,724
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
[url="https://www.stripes.com/news/turkish-lawyers-seek-arrest-of-us-servicemembers-on-incirlik-air-base-1.541627#.W23K2r6S8gG.twitter[/url]Turkish lawyers seek arrest of US service members on Incirlik Air Base[/url]

8/8/18
A group of pro-government lawyers in Turkey have filed charges against several U.S. officers associated with Incirlik Air Base, seeking their arrest for alleged ties to terrorist groups. The accusations come amid increased tensions between the U.S. and Turkey, a NATO ally that has cracked down in recent years on political opposition, shut down media outlets and tightened control of the court system, according to international aid groups. The lawyers are seeking a temporarily halt to all flights leaving the base and access to execute a search warrant, according to court papers filed last week by the Association for Social Justice and Aid. The group is a well-known, non-governmental organization made up of backers of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The Stockholm Center for Freedom, a group of exiled journalists from Turkey, said that the warrants were likely filed in response to the U.S. levying economic sanctions on Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu and Justice Minister Abdulhamit Gul for their roles in the detention of American pastor Andrew Brunson. Brunson has been held in prison since October 2016 on charges of belonging to a terrorist organization, allegations that the U.S. government and international human rights organizations refute.

The U.S. imposed the sanctions after Turkey refused to free Brunson, who was last week moved from prison to house arrest in İzmir for pretrial detention. Erdogan has publicly linked the release of Brunson to a request for the U.S. to deport Muhammed Fethullah Gulen, a Muslim religious leader living in Pennsylvania that the Turkish government says is responsible for the July 15, 2016 coup attempt in Turkey. The court papers accuse the American officers and NCOs cited of having connections to the FETO group allegedly run by Gulen and trying to “destroy the constitutional order” of Turkey. The 60-page criminal complaint seeks the arrest of Col. John C. Walker, Col. Michael H. Manion, Col. David Eaglen, Col. David Trucksa, Lt. Col. Timothy J. Cook, Lt. Col. Mack R. Coker, and Sgts. Thomas S. Cooper and Vegas M. Clark. Gen. Joseph Votel, the commander of the U.S. Central Command, retired U.S. Army Gen. John F. Campbell and Air Force Brig. Gen. Rick Boutwell, director of regional affairs for the deputy under secretary of the Air Force, were also named in the complaint.
Click to expand...

This is a continuation of Turkish president Erdogan trying to squeeze the US into extraditing Turkish cleric Muhammed Fethullah Gulen, in exile in Pennsylvania.

A portion of the arrest warrant.....

DkQVu7yUYAAC7fc.jpg
 
Rogue Valley said:
[url="https://www.stripes.com/news/turkish-lawyers-seek-arrest-of-us-servicemembers-on-incirlik-air-base-1.541627#.W23K2r6S8gG.twitter[/url]Turkish lawyers seek arrest of US service members on Incirlik Air Base[/url]



This is a continuation of Turkish president Erdogan trying to squeeze the US into extraditing Turkish cleric Muhammed Fethullah Gulen, in exile in Pennsylvania.

A portion of the arrest warrant.....

DkQVu7yUYAAC7fc.jpg
Click to expand...

I imagine its just more bluster.....they have a "bargaining chip" in the form of a US citizen already.

IIRC, most, if not all of those named are no longer even at Incirlik, and, the Turks have yet to produce anything resembling evidence to the US State Department.

These are the same people pushing to for a warrant to conduct a "raid" on the Air Base to search for suspects/evidence.

Worst case scenario will probably roll out something like this:

A Turkish Government rep will be invited to Incirlik to speak with a US Government rep, and the state supporting media will proclaim to the Turkish public that Erdogan raided the base under warrant and interrogated relevant suspects related to the coup attempt, and will then place a lifetime ban on those named in the extradition order from ever returning to Turkey; which will have zero effect on Incirlik operations as those people are no longer assigned there, and the US will never assign them back there.

Erdogan gets to look tough to his nation, and the rest of the world moves on.
 
Ten years ago, when people were all "Turkey might join the EU", I laughed and laughed.
 
ecofarm said:
Ten years ago, when people were all "Turkey might join the EU", I laughed and laughed.
Click to expand...

Well more like 15 years ago it was a real possibility, but it was never likely with Erdogan at the helm anyways but changing the ascension process was the final nail in the coffin and turned Erdogan away for good. If the EU was more accepting of Turkey back then it could actually have put a stop to Erdogan becoming the all-powerful president he is today.
 
Carjosse said:
Well more like 15 years ago it was a real possibility, but it was never likely with Erdogan at the helm anyways but changing the ascension process was the final nail in the coffin and turned Erdogan away for good. If the EU was more accepting of Turkey back then it could actually have put a stop to Erdogan becoming the all-powerful president he is today.
Click to expand...

I never believed for one second that he had aspirations other than dictator. He's always been a nationalist first. The dude is a classic Euro-style fascist. Always has been. Overtly.

I'm not sure who he fooled when exactly, but it was funny.
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
I never believed for one second that he had aspirations other than dictator. He's always been a nationalist first. The dude is a classic Euro-style fascist. Always has been. Overtly.

I'm not sure who he fooled when exactly, but it was funny.
Click to expand...

First he fooled the army, then the liberals and secularists, then the Islamists.
 
Rogue Valley said:
[url="https://www.stripes.com/news/turkish-lawyers-seek-arrest-of-us-servicemembers-on-incirlik-air-base-1.541627#.W23K2r6S8gG.twitter[/url]Turkish lawyers seek arrest of US service members on Incirlik Air Base[/url]



This is a continuation of Turkish president Erdogan trying to squeeze the US into extraditing Turkish cleric Muhammed Fethullah Gulen, in exile in Pennsylvania.

A portion of the arrest warrant.....

DkQVu7yUYAAC7fc.jpg
Click to expand...

Just a bunch of useless bluster from asslickers of Eroded. They wouldn't really do it because, with Trump as President, it'd probably be the last thing they do.
 
Roadvirus said:
Just a bunch of useless bluster from asslickers of Eroded. They wouldn't really do it because, with Trump as President, it'd probably be the last thing they do.
Click to expand...

Heheh! Yeah, right. Trump'll tweetstorm the fez right off his head.
 
Roadvirus said:
Just a bunch of useless bluster from asslickers of Eroded. They wouldn't really do it because, with Trump as President, it'd probably be the last thing they do.
Click to expand...

Um...yeah...cuz they fear Trump. After Kim, Putin, and Rouhani/Khamenei embarrassed him for his behavior, Trump is the one President, since Carter, who has proven to be an intellectual and international joke.

It is unlikely that this means anything because they understand that they are ultimately dealing with U.S. economic influence and General Mattis as SECDEF. And Mattis has a history of dealing with Turks on the ground level in Afghanistan as an ally. This is bluster because it is bluster, not because they fear an orange idiot in the White House who doesn't know how to be a diplomat.
 
Carjosse said:
Well more like 15 years ago it was a real possibility, but it was never likely with Erdogan at the helm anyways but changing the ascension process was the final nail in the coffin and turned Erdogan away for good. If the EU was more accepting of Turkey back then it could actually have put a stop to Erdogan becoming the all-powerful president he is today.
Click to expand...

If the west wasn’t so interested in allowing Erdogan to turn Turkey Islamist and didn’t allow for the neutering of the Turkish military and its ability to preserve the secular turkish republic turkey would still be a normal country.

Ironically the Europeans’ willingness to support Edrogan’s consolidation of power in the name of making Turkey more free like Europe is what allowed Turkey less free and the Islamist hellhole it almost certainly is on the path to becoming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ecofarm said:
Ten years ago, when people were all "Turkey might join the EU", I laughed and laughed.
Click to expand...

If that had happened back then we wouldn't be where we are today. The EU basically pushed to Turks away, and into the arms of Islamic revivalists. Erdogan is mostly to blame, but Sarkozy and Merkel can take their share too.
 
Andalublue said:
If that had happened back then we wouldn't be where we are today. The EU basically pushed to Turks away, and into the arms of Islamic revivalists. Erdogan is mostly to blame, but Sarkozy and Merkel can take their share too.
Click to expand...

The Turkish hunger for being a part of Europe was strong once, not very long ago. Part of what happened I think was that as not only are you correct that the Turks kept getting put off so they felt like they were not very wanted, but also over that time it became increasingly clear that Europe has huge problems..... the Turks got to "Europe is not so special as we thought, joining is not the great privilege we had it as".

By joining I am talking about their headspace as well....feeling European.
 
Carjosse said:
First he fooled the army, then the liberals and secularists, then the Islamists.
Click to expand...

He didn't fool the army, he purged it. He didn't fool the liberals, he gaoled them. He didn't fool the secularists, he gaoled some of them and wooed the rest with nationalist crap. He didn't fool the Islamists, he put them in power. I don't think he's fooled anyone. The trouble is that Turkey has a huge constituency of dirt-poor, poorly-educated, highly religious voters who see him as 'their guy', no matter how much he messes up their government and foreign relations. (remind you of anyone?) To that constituency in central and eastern Anatolia he's given them all the bread and circuses they want. Why the faecal matter is hitting the ventilator now is because he's been killing off the bakers for so long, the bread's running out. He's now in full 'foreign interference' mode, pretending it's someone else's fault, rather than his incompetence and corruption that's wrecking the nation.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The Turkish hunger for being a part of Europe was strong once, not very long ago. Part of what happened I think was that as not only are you correct that the Turks kept getting put off so they felt like they were not very wanted, but also over that time it became increasingly clear that Europe has huge problems..... the Turks got to "Europe is not so special as we thought, joining is not the great privilege we had it as".

By joining I am talking about their headspace as well....feeling European.
Click to expand...

I spend a lot of time in Turkey. Back in the late-90s/early-00s most people I met were extremely keen on EU accession, not principally for economic reasons because the Turkish economy was doing much better: exports up, tourism booming, lots of EU-Turkish corporate cooperation. They were keen because they wanted the democratic protections that they thought EU membership might bring: another set of checks and balances that might make Turkey's notoriously weak grip on liberal democracy a bit stronger.

Now, of course, my contacts were/are amongst educated, liberal Turks in Istanbul, Ankara and the West Coast, but given the amazing levels of hysteria and xenophobia exhibited by the likes of Sarkozy and the German CDU/CSU, those same western-oriented Turks began to give up on the idea because they felt that Europe wanted nothing to do with a modern, liberal Turkey. The Islamists played that for all it was worth and the Ataturkist and liberal parties started to fall behind. "No one loves us, we don't care" was the AKP attitude and Erdogan's ramping up of ethnic nationalism, his wooing of the neo-Fascist MHP to come on board, and his scapegoating of imaginary traitors did the rest. Add to all this the Eurozone crisis of 2008, one that did not affect Turkey, quite the opposite, and you can see that by the early 2010s, even centre-left and centre-right Turkish friends had completely gone off EU membership.

That leaves a massive hole in Turks' vision of the future. "What now?" many were asking. Until this year's election, no one other than Erdogan had any vision whatsoever of where Turkey should turn. I'm hoping that now the opposition has a bit more clarity and purpose than it has shown for decades, they can be ready to offer an alternative vision for Turkey when Erdogan's edifice of corruption and demagoguery comes tumbling down, but it's not going to be pretty!
 
Andalublue said:
No, he's a classic Middle-eastern-style strongman, in the same mould as Assad, Bouteflika et al.
Click to expand...

He's a Euro-style South American-esque nationalist cult of personality.
 
Andalublue said:
If that had happened back then we wouldn't be where we are today. The EU basically pushed to Turks away, and into the arms of Islamic revivalists.
Click to expand...

And Russia.
 
Roadvirus said:
And Russia.
Click to expand...

No, that was Trump's achievement. Turkey and Russia are historical enemies and rivals; they've been at it for centuries. Their current and shaky rapprochement has everything to do with Gulen, corruption trials in the US and Israel, and now trade war.
 
Andalublue said:
No, that was Trump's achievement. Turkey and Russia are historical enemies and rivals; they've been at it for centuries. Their current and shaky rapprochement has everything to do with Gulen, corruption trials in the US and Israel, and now trade war.
Click to expand...

Historically, yes; but since 90s The story has started to change ''officially'', therefore, mildly Islamists have been created by evangelists and jews and following situations took place in.


It has nothing to do with Erdoğan or anything/body else. Turkey now officially wants to face the East, thanks to the Trump ad. for making things faster.
 
The Turk said:
Historically, yes; but since 90s The story has started to change ''officially'', therefore, mildly Islamists have been created by evangelists and jews and following situations took place in.


It has nothing to do with Erdoğan or anything/body else. Turkey now officially wants to face the East, thanks to the Trump ad. for making things faster.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't get your point. Are you saying that the Islamism of Erdoğan has played no part in Turkey looking towards Russia and regional Islamist régimes? You are blaming 'evangelists' (who are they btw?) and 'jews'. Why would they want Turkey to be friends with Russia or with Saudi Arabia? What do you mean "officially"?

This shift has taken place because Erdoğan and, preceding him Erbakan, created an anti-Ataturkist movement that has worked for 40 years+ to create an Islamist state in Turkey. His rapprochement with Russia is purely situational because of the threat Erdoğan views as existing to Turkey in Syria, and due to the rejection of Turkey by the EU and the antagonistic attitude taken by the US, especially in relation to Israel. Erdoğan thinks he can play Russia against the West. Putin will play along for as long as it suits him, like he is doing with Iran. In diplomacy, especially in the Middle East, there are only friends today. Everything can change tomorrow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom