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Saudi Arabia’s Arab Spring, at Last

Saw an argument the other day that this is about trying to modernize the kingdom so that they can attract capital and be something now that they oil money is running out, and they too long delayed dealing with this so now they are under the gun a bit. Under this theory there is no real desire for a wave of freedom, it is an means to an end. I bet this ends up on the China model...a patina of freedom is to be introduced, but the real power will be kept behind closed doors as always......if the Royals are strong enough to hold on to the power.....which some people have long doubted.

The lofty talk of social revolution is largely a smoke screen. The real story could be more prosaically about following the money: bin-Salman is creating the mirage of a future open society to lure international investors. The Crown Prince is trying to raise money for a $500 billion project involving Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. The big-ticket item is a giant bridge across the Red Sea, between Saudi Arabia and Egypt, as well as a huge urban development area inspired by Dubai.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/saudi-arabia-mirage-of-reform-in-wahhabisms-absolute-monarchy/5616635


About the Author
Gilbert Mercier is a French journalist, photojournalist, on-air analyst, and filmmaker, who previously worked in Hollywood as a screenwriter, concept writer, director, producer and art director. He is the editor-in-chief of News Junkie Post and one of its founders. Mercier’s coverage of New Orleans in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina received international praise. Over the years, he has been a guest analyst on television and radio programs for RT (Russia Today), BBC World News, Progressive Radio Network, Sputnik, Al Hurra TV, and Radio Islam. Mercier’s articles have been republished by Alternet, Truthout, CounterPunch, Z Communications, Signs of the Times, Popular Resistance, and Global Research Canada, and quoted by news outlets including The Atlantic and MSNBC. In the early 1980s, Mercier hosted and produced “Performance,” a radio show in France. He has lived in the United States since 1983.
https://www.amazon.com/Orwellian-Empire-Gilbert-Mercier/dp/099665352X
 
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The linked page doesn't come up. Does it say Saudi Arabia is becoming more liberal?

Individual freedoms has nothing to do with conservative or liberal labels.

Yes.......he's calling the middle east out for what it really is.....especially Iran.
 
While I'm almost always opposed to overthrowing governments, this is one exception. The Saudi government has been the #1 exporter of extremist Muslim philosophy and they openly support terrorism. Instead of overthrowing democracies, I hope the US government dips its toe into this and nudges people into overthrowing The Sauds.
 
Saw an argument the other day that this is about trying to modernize the kingdom so that they can attract capital and be something now that they oil money is running out, and they too long delayed dealing with this so now they are under the gun a bit. Under this theory there is no real desire for a wave of freedom, it is an means to an end. I bet this ends up on the China model...a patina of freedom is to be introduced, but the real power will be kept behind closed doors as always......if the Royals are strong enough to hold on to the power.....which some people have long doubted.


https://www.globalresearch.ca/saudi-arabia-mirage-of-reform-in-wahhabisms-absolute-monarchy/5616635

Calling out Iran is huge.
 
While I'm almost always opposed to overthrowing governments, this is one exception. The Saudi government has been the #1 exporter of extremist Muslim philosophy and they openly support terrorism. Instead of overthrowing democracies, I hope the US government dips its toe into this and nudges people into overthrowing The Sauds.

Call the Saud's what ever you like, but they were instrumental in any US success in the middle east.
 
Individual freedoms has nothing to do with conservative or liberal labels.

Yes.......he's calling the middle east out for what it really is.....especially Iran.

Yeah it has, actually. When people say they hope the Iranians can get out from under the theocratic despotism, they say they hope Iran becomes more liberal. When they say Cuba will open up when the last revolutionary in government dies, they say the society will be more liberal. Russia became more liberal when communism collapsed, but Putin has steered it on a more conservative path.
It's what the words mean. Sorry about that.
 
While I'm almost always opposed to overthrowing governments, this is one exception. The Saudi government has been the #1 exporter of extremist Muslim philosophy and they openly support terrorism. Instead of overthrowing democracies, I hope the US government dips its toe into this and nudges people into overthrowing The Sauds.

But there is a gigantic problem with democraticisation. If a free election was held in Saudi Arabia it would be a one off; Islamic fundamentalists would win and they would be as bad or worse as the al Saud royal family.
 
Call the Saud's what ever you like, but they were instrumental in any US success in the middle east.

The Saudis were and are supporting ISIS in the Middle East. Ergo, they are certainly instrumental in the debacle in Libya, along with the USA, their goombah. We are definitely their ally. There seem to be a few scumbags in the Alliance, don't ya' know. Lots of USA bombs and guns killing in Yemen. Lots of innocents dying in Yemen because of the USA supported Saudi blockade of Yemen aid.
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Call the Saud's what ever you like, but they were instrumental in any US success in the middle east.

The Saudis were and are supporting ISIS in the Middle East. Ergo, they are certainly instrumental in the debacle in Libya and Syria, along with the USA, their goombah. We are definitely their ally. There seem to be a few scumbags in the Alliance, don't ya' know. Lots of USA bombs and guns killing in Yemen. Lots of innocents dying in Yemen because of the USA supported Saudi blockade of Yemen aid.
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The Saudis were and are supporting ISIS in the Middle East. Ergo, they are certainly instrumental in the debacle in Libya and Syria, along with the USA, their goombah. We are definitely their ally. There seem to be a few scumbags in the Alliance, don't ya' know. Lots of USA bombs and guns killing in Yemen. Lots of innocents dying in Yemen because of the USA supported Saudi blockade of Yemen aid.
/

Still dishonestly conflating dissimilar entities?

Yes you are.
 
Still dishonestly conflating dissimilar entities?

Yes you are.

Au contraire! In your alternate universe, the USA is always the good guy and USA goombahs are also good guys. How do you account for the millions dead by USA "police actions" that have created chaos, death and destruction? We fixed Libya! We tried to fix Syria! We're fixing Ukraine! We're fixing Haiti! We fixed Iraq! We are fixing Afghanistan! We fixed Panama! We have supported and still support the World's leading scumbags because it's easier to deal with a dictator than an electorate. The MidEast is about OIL and OIL policy and is why we are at war and allied with the Saudis. We allied with Noriega/Panama when we needed crooked banks and cocaine for Nicaraguan weapons deals (Congressional testimony, North). We ally with Saudi Arabia to suppress oil production by their competitors and you think we are spreading liberty and justice for all. Try the other red/blue pill. You've ODed on the current one.
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Au contraire! In your alternate universe, the USA is always the good guy and USA goombahs are also good guys. How do you account for the millions dead by USA "police actions" that have created chaos, death and destruction? We fixed Libya! We tried to fix Syria! We're fixing Ukraine! We're fixing Haiti! We fixed Iraq! We are fixing Afghanistan! We fixed Panama! We have supported and still support the World's leading scumbags because it's easier to deal with a dictator than an electorate. The MidEast is about OIL and OIL policy and is why we are at war and allied with the Saudis. We allied with Noriega/Panama when we needed crooked banks and cocaine for Nicaraguan weapons deals (Congressional testimony, North). We ally with Saudi Arabia to suppress oil production by their competitors and you think we are spreading liberty and justice for all. Try the other red/blue pill. You've ODed on the current one.
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A long rambling post in which you avoid my question.

Not unusual for the garden variety CTer.

If the actions of the US were truly so heinous you wouldn't have to make **** up.

Like your ignorant "precursor" claim or the "US funded Al Qaeda" and the ever popular "US is fundin ISIS" nonsense.... You do occasionally get things right but then you taint your own message with ignorance and out and out lies.

Try being accurate rather than Hyperbolic. That and quit channeling the RT party line. It makes you look like Putin's Poodle.
 
Hawkeye10:

I would be very careful citing the folks at Global Research. Their objectivity is inconsistent and their desire to prove an ideological point sometimes overwhelms their ability to unbiasedly analyse data and circumstances. Some of their work is quite good but some is very misleading and highly skewed. You have entered an ideological minefield and are in peril.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Call the Saud's what ever you like, but they were instrumental in any US success in the middle east.

They support terrorism an I'm not surprised you're thrilled with that.
 
But there is a gigantic problem with democraticisation. If a free election was held in Saudi Arabia it would be a one off; Islamic fundamentalists would win and they would be as bad or worse as the al Saud royal family.

I disagree. The Saud's are organized and can maintain political maneuvering. If fundies take over they will be disorganized and nobody would support them the way the Sauds receive support. However, on this I think you're wrong. I think a true democratic government would be able to win and take over.
 
I disagree. The Saud's are organized and can maintain political maneuvering. If fundies take over they will be disorganized and nobody would support them the way the Sauds receive support. However, on this I think you're wrong. I think a true democratic government would be able to win and take over.

The Saudi's are fundamentalists. Wahhabists, some of the most puritan, ultraconservative fundamentalists in all Islam.
 
But there is a gigantic problem with democraticisation. If a free election was held in Saudi Arabia it would be a one off; Islamic fundamentalists would win and they would be as bad or worse as the al Saud royal family.

That's the pattern, that's the phony 'Arab Spring'- depose a secular tyrant and one election later you have a theocratic tyranny.
 
They support terrorism an I'm not surprised you're thrilled with that.

Geeze... it sure would be nice if some of you actually read the OP article.. for once.

The heir apparent and his ailing Father are new to power in Saudi Arabia and they have made their first order of business pushing the Wahabists out of power, and culling the herd of the many corrupt princes dealing is criminal acts such as laundering money for Islamic radicals. They expect to recover $100 billion from these illicit schemes while, within the culture, promoting the rights of women, eliminating the moral police and freeing women to dress as they like, be seen with who they like and drive a car. The effect that such a softening of Saudi Law will have on Islamic culture worldwide would be huge given that they still hold the seat of the Islamic faith, and are the destination for millions of Muslims every year during the Hajj.

The only trick is the Prince, soon to be King will need to hold power for about 50 years in order to wash out the Wahabist power. Will that happen? Who knows. Iran's most recent moderate reform only lasted a few years.

Now stuff that isn't in the article:

Granted, Saudi Arabian Mullahs and Iran Mullahs have had an interesting campaign going on religiously for a while concerning which nation will be chosen by the Mahdi when he returns. Saudi Arabian Mullahs claim home field advantage since they hold Mecca, but Iran claims the hidden Imam (aka. The 12th Imam) was a Shiite Muslim, so they have built a highway leading to Tehran from the direction of Mecca. While they still believe that the Mahdi will appear in Mecca.... they expect he will drive to Tehran to claim it as the new center of the Muslim world. So toppling the Sunni side of the feud in Saudi Arabia may just further fuel the beliefs of Iranian Twelvers in their mission to bring about the conditions required for the emergence of the 12th Imam... and one of those conditions is all out war between infidels and Muslims all across the Middle East.

Interestingly, in Twelver lore, they are meant to LOSE that war before the Mahdi will come to their rescue. So starting an unwinnable war is rational to Twelvers. Hell, one of the reason why Mecca is the holy center of Islam is because places like the wailing wall are soaked in the cultural pride of the time where -- stop me if you heard this somewhere else -- Islam was nearly wiped out, but on the brink of destruction Mecca held and Allah's armies lead a retribution against the infidels that reclaimed the whole region. They see that happening again, soon, only their destruction will be even closer to complete and their subsequent victory will be absolute.

Anyway, a moderate Saudi Arabia may spark more direct hostilities by Iran against them in an effort to pull the west into the final showdown.

No doubt they plan to have nukes by then.
 
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