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Turkey: US to stop arming Syrian Kurdish fighters

Hawkeye10 said:
Sure there was...... all they needed to do was to play nice for awhile, build up some more credits, they increasingly have Putin Onboard with him helping with Turkey and Iran, they have us, Iraq was almost completely leaving them alone,..... their cards just get better and better.

Till now.

For instance oil flows from the Kurds is now half of what it was, and that will not get better I think:

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-...-Exports-Still-Below-Pre-Conflict-Levels.html
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Yeah...they should've never given up Kirkuk. That said, again, there was never a better time for the Kurds to finally get their own nation, and that time is slipping by, if not already passed. Would've been great to finally see a Kurdish homeland, but we in the US are going to back untrustworthy partners over the rock-solid Kurds. Our betrayal of the Kurds, on multiple occasions, is a tragedy and shameful. Screw Iraq. I don't care what they do.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
As long as things keep getting better a generation would be fine....... this is a very unstable area with a very bad recent history, the people are traumatized....... the last thing the Kurds should be doing is adding to the problems when things have been going well for them.

Tends to build up resentments you know.
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You mean wait until it stable enough for the opposition force to come after them more effectively? That makes zero sense. Them gaining their own nation is going to take fighting, full stop. It's not going to be a peaceful process.
 
FieldTheorist said:
It's unbelievable how intellectually outmoded Trump is by nearly anyone else in the room. Pretty soon China's going to figure out how to get him to start giving free aid to their factory's by taxing US workers. I still can't believe that people were deluded enough to vote for this boy President.
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That does not works so well in a thread on the ME, where America has inflicted a heavy self wound, and where almost none of our plans have worked, for the last 16 years.

Could Trump possibly do worse?

I tend to doubt it.

:2wave:
 
Fishking said:
You mean wait until it stable enough for the opposition force to come after them more effectively? That makes zero sense. Them gaining their own nation is going to take fighting, full stop. It's not going to be a peaceful process.
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With the way they are acting now...likely, but they could always be better.

This was a squandered opportunity for continued bridge building.

Not for taking advantage of Iraqs military weakness.

Mosul chewed up the Golden Division bad.

This is bad sportsmanship.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
With the way they are acting now...likely, but they could always be better.

This was a squandered opportunity for continued bridge building.

Not for taking advantage of Iraqs military weakness.

Mosul chewed up the Golden Division bad.

This is bad sportsmanship.
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No, it will never be better. It never has and never will. The only way it can be better is if they have their own nation. None of the current nations will ever give them anything but oppression. That part of the world doesn't care about human rights or fairness. I've been there, it doesn't exist. The only way for the Kurds to get a fair shake is for them to call their own shots. I'm just wondering what information you're going off of that makes you think that the Kurds will be treated fairly by any of the nations they are split up between.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
That does not works so well in a thread on the ME, where America has inflicted a heavy self wound, and where almost none of our plans have worked, for the last 16 years.

Could Trump possibly do worse?

I tend to doubt it.

:2wave:
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You're right on that account. Trump couldn't do worse than what we've been doing, especially the horrible failure that Obama was in ME policies.
 
Don't harbor any illusions about Erdogan. He was allowing ISIS volunteers to cross his borders into Syria and Iraq and was allowing ISIS tanker trucks of Syrian oil to cross his border going the other way. Erdogan closed the only escape/supply route for Kurds trapped in Kobani and surrounded on three sides by ISIS. No country has more journalists imprisoned than Turkey. Thousands of teachers, lawyers, and govt officials have lost their jobs due to Erdogan/AK purges. Thousands more languish in horrific prisons. Day by day, Erdogan and his AK party chip away at secularism. Little known to outsiders, the Turkish military employs collective punishment on Kurdish towns and villages. Entire Kurd villages are cleansed and burned to the ground ... which elicits another reprisal by the PKK. A circle of violence that Erdogan is purposefully accelerating.

Rather than a NATO partner, Erdogan belongs in a cell in the Hague.
 
Fishking said:
Bull****. The Kurds are doing what is right. They need their own country, that they should've had this entire time, instead of being **** on by all the other countries they got split up between.
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That will never fly with Turkey or Iran.
 
Shame, since everything I've heard indicates that the Kurds were the only "Iraqi" fighters worth a damn.
 
Fishking said:
You're right on that account. Trump couldn't do worse than what we've been doing, especially the horrible failure that Obama was in ME policies.
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I think this actually comes pretty close. Bush armed the Kurds (good move), Obama continued doing so (good move) and now Trump wants to disarm the best defense against ISIS.
 
FieldTheorist said:
It's unbelievable how intellectually outmoded Trump is by nearly anyone else in the room. Pretty soon China's going to figure out how to get him to start giving free aid to their factory's by taxing US workers. I still can't believe that people were deluded enough to vote for this boy President.
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Yep. Now, even the Pentagon is going "WTF" over this guy.
Trump’s decision appeared to catch both the Pentagon and the U.S. State Department off guard. Officials at both agencies, who would normally be informed of changes in U.S. policy toward arming the Syrian Kurds, said they were unaware of any changes. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity.

It was unclear whether the Trump administration notified the Kurds of the move before telling the Turks. Nor was it how much significance the change would have on the ground, considering the fight against IS is almost over.
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Trump tells Turkey’s leader: US to stop arming Syrian Kurds
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Could Trump possibly do worse?

I tend to doubt it.

:2wave:
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Well, at least you're dialing your expectations to the appropriate levels, but to answer your question: Yes.
 
rocket88 said:
I think this actually comes pretty close. Bush armed the Kurds (good move), Obama continued doing so (good move) and now Trump wants to disarm the best defense against ISIS.
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Obama also armed ISIS so and helped destabilize Syria to give ISIS room to grow.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Don't harbor any illusions about Erdogan. He was allowing ISIS volunteers to cross his borders into Syria and Iraq and was allowing ISIS tanker trucks of Syrian oil to cross his border going the other way. Erdogan closed the only escape/supply route for Kurds trapped in Kobani and surrounded on three sides by ISIS. No country has more journalists imprisoned than Turkey. Thousands of teachers, lawyers, and govt officials have lost their jobs due to Erdogan/AK purges. Thousands more languish in horrific prisons. Day by day, Erdogan and his AK party chip away at secularism. Little known to outsiders, the Turkish military employs collective punishment on Kurdish towns and villages. Entire Kurd villages are cleansed and burned to the ground ... which elicits another reprisal by the PKK. A circle of violence that Erdogan is purposefully accelerating.

Rather than a NATO partner, Erdogan belongs in a cell in the Hague.
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Greetings, Rogue Valley. :2wave:

Well said! :thumbs:
 
Turkey ‘very happy’ as U.S. stops arming Kurds in Syria

AP/NBC News
NOV 25 2017

ypj-freedom-fighters.jpg

Syrian Kurd YPJ (female) combat brigade

The United States seems set to cut off its supply of arms to Kurdish fighters in Syria, in a move by President Donald Trump that is sure to please Turkey but further alienate Syrian Kurds who bore much of the fight against the Islamic State. The White House called the move "consistent with our previous policy" and noted the recent fall of Raqqa, once the Islamic State group's self-declared capital but recently liberated by a largely Kurdish force. Turkey considers the Kurdish Syrian fighters, known by the initials YPG, to be terrorists because of their affiliation to outlawed Kurdish rebels that have waged a decades-long insurgency in Turkey. Yet the U.S. chose to partner with the YPG in Syria anyway, arguing that the battle-hardened Kurds were the most effective fighting force available. Both Turkey and the U.S. consider the PKK a terrorist group. But the United States has tried to draw a distinction between the PKK and the Syrian Kurds across the border, while Turkey insists they're essentially the same. In both Syria and Iraq, the U.S. relied on Kurdish fighters to do much of the fighting against ISIS.
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Other groups that are fighting with US forces against terrorism (ISIS/AQ) will take note of how Trump has stabbed the Syrian Kurds in the back once the objective of defeating ISIS was accomplished (mostly by the YPG/YPJ Syrian forces). I have not seen any credible evidence (one must discount Ankara propaganda) that the Syrian Kurds have assisted the Turkish PKK. Hundreds of these fighters have died since 2014 defeating ISIS. Now hundreds more will perish fighting Turkish forces occupying/cleansing their homeland cantons of Rojava in northern Syria.

For Trump, "America First" apparently means using ME allies to the utmost before setting them up for slaughter. Once again, Trump embraces a brutal dictator in Erdogan.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Turkey ‘very happy’ as U.S. stops arming Kurds in Syria



Other groups that are fighting with US forces against terrorism (ISIS/AQ) will take note of how Trump has stabbed the Syrian Kurds in the back once the objective of defeating ISIS was accomplished (mostly by the YPG/YPJ Syrian forces). I have not seen any credible evidence (one must discount Ankara propaganda) that the Syrian Kurds have assisted the Turkish PKK. Hundreds of these fighters have died since 2014 defeating ISIS. Now hundreds more will perish fighting Turkish forces occupying/cleansing their homeland cantons of Rojava in northern Syria.

For Trump, "America First" apparently means using ME allies to the utmost before setting them up for slaughter. Once again, Trump embraces a brutal dictator in Erdogan.
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If the fight with ISIS is over, why do we need to keep supplying arms? Just trying to understand the purpose. The article says that we started supplying to help with the fight against ISIS. I just watched a NatGeo on Syria and know how much the Kurds have done, so I'm not against them, but if the purpose has been met, isn't 'the deal done' so to speak? Not sure how else to phrase it. How long are we supposed to supply them?
 
holbritter said:
If the fight with ISIS is over, why do we need to keep supplying arms? Just trying to understand the purpose. The article says that we started supplying to help with the fight against ISIS. I just watched a NatGeo on Syria and know how much the Kurds have done, so I'm not against them, but if the purpose has been met, isn't 'the deal done' so to speak? Not sure how else to phrase it. How long are we supposed to supply them?
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as long as they demonstrate their continued alliance with our nation
much as with our other allies
 
holbritter said:
what??

Do they purchase from us, or do we just give them away?
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wtf? They're not getting Abram's tanks, Apache's, or F-16s.

Without a doubt the bravest and most dependable fighting units in the entire ME.

These are the men and women that actually defeated ISIS in northern and central Syria.

Block by block urban warfare in ISIS held towns and capital city (Raqqa).
 
I think this is terrible to the Kurds who have been fighting ISIS since their inception. The fact that Trumps sides with Turkey on this matter especially since they attack and assaulted American citzens in Washington DC. These guys can't leave soon enough for me. To my Conservative friends....just make believe this was Clinton and you will be able to find your faux outrage.
 
Rogue Valley said:
wtf? They're not getting Abram's tanks, Apache's, or F-16s.

Without a doubt the bravest and most dependable fighting units in the entire ME.

These are the men and women that actually defeated ISIS in northern and central Syria.

Block by block urban warfare in ISIS held towns and capital city (Raqqa).
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Christ on a cracker, I'm just asking questions to try and learn something. Forget it, ok.
 
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