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Why did the U.S. abstain in the U.N. Israeli vote?

This may help:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...un-vote-declaring-israeli-settlements-illegal

The motive may have been that the Israeli / Palestinian conflict never ends, and no president has made much progress.

The result will be to harden the positions of the USA Trump and Israel since it is considered a back stab by a US president, rather than a diplomatic move. (since a lame duck Obama did it as if it were personal).

Obama ignored the #1 issue: Palestine refuses to acknowledge Israels right to exist. Without that, you have have no starting point. Obama must have slept through that part of the briefing.

Obama threw out a turd just "because" as a "farewell gift". After all, he isn't the one that has to clean up the mess.
 
MaggieD said:
Trying to learn something...
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Obama and other world leaders see Israeli occupation of the West Bank as an illegal act. Israel sees occupation of that territory as a matter of national security. By abstaining from the UNSC vote Obama pretty much told Netanyahu that the US would not support Israel as long as they held control in the area. Please keep in mind that the territory in question has been used repeatedly as a launching pad for Iranian backed Hamas to lob missiles into Israel and it comes close enough to Tel Aviv to be a serious and legitimate concern for Israel.
 
chuckiechan said:
This may help:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...un-vote-declaring-israeli-settlements-illegal

The motive may have been that the Israeli / Palestinian conflict never ends, and no president has made much progress.

The result will be to harden the positions of the USA Trump and Israel since it is considered a back stab by a US president, rather than a diplomatic move. (since a lame duck Obama did it as if it were personal).

Obama ignored the #1 issue: Palestine refuses to acknowledge Israels right to exist. Without that, you have have no starting point. Obama must have slept through that part of the briefing.

Obama threw out a turd just "because" as a "farewell gift". After all, he isn't the one that has to clean up the mess.
Click to expand...

Great info at this link. Thank you. What struck me was that Israel immediately pulled its farm aid to Senegal, as it should be. We should take a lesson.

TheGoverness said:
Here, Maggie. :)

https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/12/26/us-abstention-at-the-un-security-council-an-overview/
Click to expand...

More good information. Thank you!

Lutherf said:
Obama and other world leaders see Israeli occupation of the West Bank as an illegal act. Israel sees occupation of that territory as a matter of national security. By abstaining from the UNSC vote Obama pretty much told Netanyahu that the US would not support Israel as long as they held control in the area. Please keep in mind that the territory in question has been used repeatedly as a launching pad for Iranian backed Hamas to lob missiles into Israel and it comes close enough to Tel Aviv to be a serious and legitimate concern for Israel.
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Thank you, Luther. Funny, the links didn't mention that that territory has been used as a launching pad. God. How can we blame them? Answer -- we can't.


im not convinced at all that Obama abstained as a nose-thumbing gesture, but I do think it was a mistake. Senegal gets a vote. Be still my heart.
 
MaggieD said:
Trying to learn something...
Click to expand...

In short because Israel doesn't have the legal or moral right to keep gobbling up Palestinian land and pretend it's not happening. They're intentionally settling Israelis in disputed territory in order to bolster their claim to it. The Palestinians are certainly not faultless, but every once in a while even America needs to recognize when Israel isn't moving towards a peaceful resolution.
 
Obama is a muslim sympathizer who hates the Jews.

He has been getting ignored recently while trump gets all the attention and for him this is a two-fer

Its a boost for his first love - the arab radicals, and a slap in the face for Israel and trump
 
RabidAlpaca said:
In short because Israel doesn't have the legal or moral right to keep gobbling up Palestinian land and pretend it's not happening. They're intentionally settling Israelis in disputed territory in order to bolster their claim to it. The Palestinians are certainly not faultless, but every once in a while even America needs to recognize when Israel isn't moving towards a peaceful resolution.
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I think trump will make the UN regret this vote
 
Mac77 said:
I think trump will make the UN regret this vote
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I agree. There are going to be consequences, not only for the UN, but many of the nations who supported that resolution. trump will likely withhold money going to the UN and aid to many countries that supported the resolution.
 
MaggieD said:
Trying to learn something...
Click to expand...

Most likely the current administration feels as though the Israeli act of forcibly settling disputed territories to bolster Israeli claims to it is not conducive to a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

There are decent arguments both against and in favor of the situation. It's not a clear black and white one-side-is-right kind of situation.
 
MaggieD said:
Trying to learn something...
Click to expand...

The US can't scorn Israelis "illegal" occupation there because of our own history. What do you think we would do if, say....Russia set up missles in Cuba?

Israel can't have a hostile force camped that close to them and be militaristic ally secure.

At the same time...we get it...Israel is doing something we already condemned Russia for.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Most likely the current administration feels as though the Israeli act of forcibly settling disputed territories to bolster Israeli claims to it is not conducive to a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

There are decent arguments both against and in favor of the situation. It's not a clear black and white one-side-is-right kind of situation.
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Obama is pro muslim and anti Jew

But this is his last act of petulance toward Israel on his way out the door.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
In short because Israel doesn't have the legal or moral right to keep gobbling up Palestinian land and pretend it's not happening. They're intentionally settling Israelis in disputed territory in order to bolster their claim to it. The Palestinians are certainly not faultless, but every once in a while even America needs to recognize when Israel isn't moving towards a peaceful resolution.
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Neither are the Palestinians interested in peace. There has never been any serious consideration of the two state plan by the Palestinians unless perhaps they seek a 2 state plan when they have no other way to get at Israel; it would certainly make Israel more vulnerable. They want one state, a Palestinian state. They are quite open about this with their own people.

Netanyahu knows this. He knows that Israel must move to make itself secure, and that means land as a buffer against its enemies.

Trump appears to be pressing the Palestinians. And he should, because they are the ones who are really intransigent in this. When he supports settlements and threatens to move the US embassy to Jerusalem he's telling them that they'd better come to a peace deal or they will end up losing it all. This is the negotiating leverage that the UN resolution threatens to the disadvantage of Israel. Trump thus steps in to shore up Israel's position.
 
Mac77 said:
Obama is a muslim sympathizer who hates the Jews.

He has been getting ignored recently while trump gets all the attention and for him this is a two-fer

Its a boost for his first love - the arab radicals, and a slap in the face for Israel and trump
Click to expand...

Mac77 said:
Obama is pro muslim and anti Jew

But this is his last act of petulance toward Israel on his way out the door.
Click to expand...

Just stop.
 
MaggieD said:
Trying to learn something...
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Whereas it's true that some missiles have been lobbed at Israel from the West Bank. Retaliation always follows. Israel is an apartheid state and not all recognize that fact. The Palestinians have created a lot of their own problems, but they are targetted mercilessly by the Isreelis. Lots of Palestinians and Palestinean children have been shot. Usually for throwing stones, not missiles. Israel has ignored huge numbers of UN resolutions against its' policies and continues to do so. Israel is always given good biased press in the USA because it has disproportionate influence here. Jews and Palestinians seem to be OK, but Zionists and Jihadists create the tempest in the teapot.
 
MaggieD said:
Trying to learn something...
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Because after agreeing to slow down the growth of Israeli settlements on non-Israeli land, the Israeli govt has encouraged the growth of such settlements. It is unreasonable for the Israeli govt to assume that the US would do nothing in response to Israels flouting of its promises.
 
sangha said:
Because after agreeing to slow down the growth of Israeli settlements on non-Israeli land, the Israeli govt has encouraged the growth of such settlements. It is unreasonable for the Israeli govt to assume that the US would do nothing in response to Israels flouting of its promises.
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What promise?
There was one time Israel has agreed to freeze all construction within the settlements for 9 months so the Palestinians will agree to negotiate for peace, and there is the known policy not to build new settlements and only build within the boundaries of existing ones, but aside of that I can't recall any promise to 'slow down' their growth. The building is done on the basis of natural growth, if new families are created and more houses are needed and schools and such then these are to be built.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
In short because Israel doesn't have the legal or moral right to keep gobbling up Palestinian land and pretend it's not happening. They're intentionally settling Israelis in disputed territory in order to bolster their claim to it. The Palestinians are certainly not faultless, but every once in a while even America needs to recognize when Israel isn't moving towards a peaceful resolution.
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Even if you truly believe that and you clearly do how is this resolution going to change anything for the positive? It's going to do several things including pushing the Israeli public to the right, pushing the already hard-right politicians to make populistic decisions meaning building much more in the WB settlements, and making the UN and the international community even less credible on the conflict for pushing a one-sided view and adopting the position of the Palestinians.
No matter how you look at it this decision was a very miserable one and it really isn't going to advance peace, on the contrary.
 
Apocalypse said:
Even if you truly believe that and you clearly do how is this resolution going to change anything for the positive? It's going to do several things including pushing the Israeli public to the right, pushing the already hard-right politicians to make populistic decisions meaning building much more in the WB settlements, and making the UN and the international community even less credible on the conflict for pushing a one-sided view and adopting the position of the Palestinians.
No matter how you look at it this decision was a very miserable one and it really isn't going to advance peace, on the contrary.
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You're suggesting we don't hold the Israelis accountable at all for their actions, and that's nonsense. We can't even begin to discuss anything if they're snatching land extraditiously and nobody is willing to call them out on it. The resolution in and of itself does nothing, it's only a start. Until now the US has backed up Israel every time whether they're right or wrong, and for peace to happen that needs to stop.

They're violating international law and they're trying to bolster their claim to Palestine's land. Sure, it's a great "path to peace" if you're an Israeli, because peace to you can only come on your terms. Not every Israeli is a zionist and not every Palestinian is a jihadist. Learn to coexist with your fellow man.
 
MaggieD said:
im not convinced at all that Obama abstained as a nose-thumbing gesture, but I do think it was a mistake. Senegal gets a vote. Be still my heart.
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Apocalypse said:
Even if you truly believe that and you clearly do how is this resolution going to change anything for the positive?
Click to expand...
RabidAlpaca said:
The Palestinians are certainly not faultless, but every once in a while even America needs to recognize when Israel isn't moving towards a peaceful resolution.
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The UN has passed annual unbinding resolutions, with near unanimous worldwide support, condemning Israel's behavior in regards to the settlements for near a decade.
Here's a couple of the vote totals:

69th Session (2014) - Resolution 69/92 – Vote 167-6-9 (Yea-Nay-Abstain) ... yes that's 167 countries.
68th - 68/82 - Vote 167-6-9
67th - 67/120 - Vote 169-6-5
66th - 66/78 - Vote 162-7-4
65th - 65/104 - Vote 169-6-3
64th - 64/93 - Vote 167-7-3

The few nay-voters are Pacific Island nations close to the USA, the USA itself, and Canada.

Israel's behavior and treatment of the Palestinians is a problem. The entire world recognizes it. Israel has only escaped censure thus far because of the USA's commitment to veto any resolution having to do with Israel.

Obama's administration abstaining doesn't have anything to do with nose-thumbing. It just allowed for the first time for the rest of the world to have their say in conflict.
 
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Mac77 said:
J

So were the arabs every time they attacked Israel
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So you want Israel to be just like the Arabs and violate international law? Why? Seems to me you don't really care about the Israelis---you just want them to go further and further to the right.
 
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