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Why did the U.S. abstain in the U.N. Israeli vote?

Tigerace117 said:
So you want Israel to be just like the Arabs and violate international law? Why? Seems to me you don't really care about the Israelis---you just want them to go further and further to the right.
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Without a peace settlement Israel can administer the occupied territory any way it sees fit.

The Arabs broke the law first and are paying the price for it now
 
chuckiechan said:
This may help:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...un-vote-declaring-israeli-settlements-illegal

The motive may have been that the Israeli / Palestinian conflict never ends, and no president has made much progress.

The result will be to harden the positions of the USA Trump and Israel since it is considered a back stab by a US president, rather than a diplomatic move. (since a lame duck Obama did it as if it were personal).

Obama ignored the #1 issue: Palestine refuses to acknowledge Israels right to exist. Without that, you have have no starting point. Obama must have slept through that part of the briefing.

Obama threw out a turd just "because" as a "farewell gift". After all, he isn't the one that has to clean up the mess.
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Here is another pov
Charles Krauthammer - Barack Obama's Israeli Settlements Canard
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You're suggesting we don't hold the Israelis accountable at all for their actions, and that's nonsense. We can't even begin to discuss anything if they're snatching land extraditiously and nobody is willing to call them out on it. The resolution in and of itself does nothing, it's only a start. Until now the US has backed up Israel every time whether they're right or wrong, and for peace to happen that needs to stop.

They're violating international law and they're trying to bolster their claim to Palestine's land. Sure, it's a great "path to peace" if you're an Israeli, because peace to you can only come on your terms. Not every Israeli is a zionist and not every Palestinian is a jihadist. Learn to coexist with your fellow man.
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You're saying I don't know how to coexist with my fellow man based on what exactly? That I don't believe this move to be benefical to any party? That I see it as biased and one-sided?
You just compared being a Zionist, meaning believing that Israel should continue to exist, with being a Jihadist, meaning being a supporter of radical Islam and terrorism, this clearly demonstrates how ignorant you are on this conflict, so forgive me if I won't take any personal advices from you. :shrug:
Also, FYI, even the left-wing parties in Israel that oppose settlement policies consider themselves to be Zionist, so you better stop attributing whatever it is you're attributing to this term.

Anyway, you failed to address and show how is it helpful. Does it count as "holding Israel accountable"? No, and who are they to hold it accountable anyway, they're a biased organization and aside of promoting anti-Israeli decisions they don't do anything regarding the actual major violators of human rights because these are the type who control that tainted institution and aim it as a weapon against Israel. It's a bad decision taken by a biased body that will only harm peace efforts, as I just explained, and that's pretty much what you support when you support the decision and the general behavior of that buffoonish body.
 
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brothern said:
The UN has passed annual unbinding resolutions, with near unanimous worldwide support, condemning Israel's behavior in regards to the settlements for near a decade.
Here's a couple of the vote totals:

69th Session (2014) - Resolution 69/92 – Vote 167-6-9 (Yea-Nay-Abstain) ... yes that's 167 countries.
68th - 68/82 - Vote 167-6-9
67th - 67/120 - Vote 169-6-5
66th - 66/78 - Vote 162-7-4
65th - 65/104 - Vote 169-6-3
64th - 64/93 - Vote 167-7-3

The few nay-voters are Pacific Island nations close to the USA, the USA itself, and Canada.

Israel's behavior and treatment of the Palestinians is a problem. The entire world recognizes it. Israel has only escaped censure thus far because of the USA's commitment to veto any resolution having to do with Israel.

Obama's administration abstaining doesn't have anything to do with nose-thumbing. It just allowed for the first time for the rest of the world to have their say in conflict.
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Again as I told another poster here it is very naive to believe that becuase the international community vote against Israel in the UN it means they are right to do so. It is a logical fallacy to claim that someone is right because nearly everyone claim he is, especially when we speak of a subject where those who decide what is right and what isn't do so on the basis of pure interests. Israel cannot compete with the entire Muslim/Arab world on that but that doesn't mean that it's wrong or that the international community is right to gang on a single nation with such double standards. That's what makes the US so important, and that's why if the next US administration will follow through with its threats to cease funding that tainted organization it'd be a positive step.
 
brothern said:
The UN has passed annual unbinding resolutions, with near unanimous worldwide support, condemning Israel's behavior in regards to the settlements for near a decade.
Here's a couple of the vote totals:

69th Session (2014) - Resolution 69/92 – Vote 167-6-9 (Yea-Nay-Abstain) ... yes that's 167 countries.
68th - 68/82 - Vote 167-6-9
67th - 67/120 - Vote 169-6-5
66th - 66/78 - Vote 162-7-4
65th - 65/104 - Vote 169-6-3
64th - 64/93 - Vote 167-7-3

The few nay-voters are Pacific Island nations close to the USA, the USA itself, and Canada.

Israel's behavior and treatment of the Palestinians is a problem. The entire world recognizes it. Israel has only escaped censure thus far because of the USA's commitment to veto any resolution having to do with Israel.

Obama's administration abstaining doesn't have anything to do with nose-thumbing. It just allowed for the first time for the rest of the world to have their say in conflict.
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In my opinion the Israelis have been more than fair and magnanimous to the Palestinians.

Fact: The Israelis were prepared to co-exist peacefully with the so-called Palestinians--Jews are every bit as Palestinian as the Arabs who identify by that name--until the first Arab/Israeli war was imminent. Most of the Palestinians fled Israel in advance of those hostilities on the theory the Arabs would drive out or kill all the Jews and then they would move back. Well the Arabs didn't drive out or kill all the Jews and the Jews wisely refused to allow the Palestinians hostile to the Jews to return.

Those Palestinians who remained during that time were made full citizens of Israel except that they were not required to serve in the military--this was so they would not be in the position of firing on their own people in event of more war. But they have all the rights of the Israeli citizens including seats on the Knesset and they have prospered right along with the Israelis.

And because the suicide bombers and other terrorists were coming from the other Palestinians, and the Palestinian leadership is on record as committed to wiping Israel off the face of the Earth, the Israelis have taken necessary measures to protect the people from that kind of mayhem and hate. The Palestinians outside of Israel have refused to denounce their leadership who places their missile launchers and other weaponry among women and children in hope of generating return fire that will injure those women and children and thus gain sympathy from the world community who will denounce Israel.

I cannot understand how the world community can denounce Israel for defending itself and give the Palestinians a pass for all the murder, chaos, and mayhem that they create. The only answer is that there is indeed deep seated hatred, prejudice, and bigotry against the Israelis who happen to be mostly Jews.
 
Mac77 said:
Without a peace settlement Israel can administer the occupied territory any way it sees fit.

The Arabs broke the law first and are paying the price for it now
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Uh, actually judging from what I've read about the war of independence, both sides committed war crimes.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Uh, actually judging from what I've read about the war of independence, both sides committed war crimes.
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I am not talking about alleged war crimes

The arabs broke the law by invading Israel and that has led to all the wars since then
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Most likely the current administration feels as though the Israeli act of forcibly settling disputed territories to bolster Israeli claims to it is not conducive to a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

There are decent arguments both against and in favor of the situation. It's not a clear black and white one-side-is-right kind of situation.
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the question is: "How long should Israel have to wait until the Palestinians give up their primary goal of wiping Israel off the map and actually decide they want peace?" They have been committing terrorist acts against Israel on nearly a daily basis since the late 1960s. It's more about that then Israeli settlements in so-called disputed territories. The terrorists are the bad guys in this conflict, not Israel. The sooner everyone works that out, the sooner there will be a peaceful solution.
 
So Iran's proxies in Palestine shoot rockets into Israel. Israel says it's had enough and invades, kicks out out kills the military structure and administers the land as if it were its own.

This makes Israel the bad guy. They have the right to continue to exist, but not according to Palestine.
 
LowDown said:
Neither are the Palestinians interested in peace. There has never been any serious consideration of the two state plan by the Palestinians unless perhaps they seek a 2 state plan when they have no other way to get at Israel; it would certainly make Israel more vulnerable. They want one state, a Palestinian state. They are quite open about this with their own people.

Netanyahu knows this. He knows that Israel must move to make itself secure, and that means land as a buffer against its enemies.

Trump appears to be pressing the Palestinians. And he should, because they are the ones who are really intransigent in this. When he supports settlements and threatens to move the US embassy to Jerusalem he's telling them that they'd better come to a peace deal or they will end up losing it all. This is the negotiating leverage that the UN resolution threatens to the disadvantage of Israel. Trump thus steps in to shore up Israel's position.
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Very well said.:agree
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Just stop.
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he is absolutely right. For whatever reason, Obama does sympathize with muslims, probably because he was partially raised as one. he makes it quite obvious. Whenever anyone publicly criticizes radicalized muslims, Obama gets offended and has been known to hark back to naughty things Christians did 700 years ago.
 
ObamacareFail said:
he is absolutely right. For whatever reason, Obama does sympathize with muslims, probably because he was partially raised as one. he makes it quite obvious. Whenever anyone publicly criticizes radicalized muslims, Obama gets offended and has been known to hark back to naughty things Christians did 700 years ago.
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Could you be any more incorrect?
 
AlbqOwl said:
Fact: The Israelis were prepared to co-exist peacefully with the so-called Palestinians--Jews are every bit as Palestinian as the Arabs who identify by that name--until the first Arab/Israeli war was imminent.
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That is not entirely true. The Israelis started annexing Palestinian land and building illegal settlements almost immediately and there was no shortage of those who believed in the idea of a Greater Israel where only Jews should be permitted to live. A few of the Israeli terrorist organizations peddling that ideology were ultimately integrated into the IDF too instead of jailing them as they should have done.

Israel still practices a territorial expansion that has always been disturbingly similar to the German "Lebensraum" policy - which is why their overtures of co-existence are viewed with skepticism as they gradually eliminate the "co" from the term through illegal settlement and eviction. The Israeli government prefers to use these settlements as bargaining chips in negotiations - which is why Bibi's knickers are in a twist - but it's a point of contention that wouldn't exist if they would stop annexing Palestinian land.
 
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DaveFagan said:
Whereas it's true that some missiles have been lobbed at Israel from the West Bank. Retaliation always follows. Israel is an apartheid state and not all recognize that fact. The Palestinians have created a lot of their own problems, but they are targetted mercilessly by the Isreelis. Lots of Palestinians and Palestinean children have been shot. Usually for throwing stones, not missiles. Israel has ignored huge numbers of UN resolutions against its' policies and continues to do so. Israel is always given good biased press in the USA because it has disproportionate influence here. Jews and Palestinians seem to be OK, but Zionists and Jihadists create the tempest in the teapot.
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You have mixed in baloney with truth. Israel is not an apartheid state. There are Arab members in the Israeli Knesset. And with rare exception Palestinian youth are not shot for throwing stones. as for UN resolutions, they are primarily politically motivates. For instance in 2015, there were 20 UN resolutions against Israel and 3 for the rest of the world combined. That is despite what is going on in Syria, Iran, Libya, etc. the problem is jihadists and the utter fools around the world that toss the blame at Israel. And the rank and file Palestinians are not targeted by Israel at all. Israel only targets the terrorist groups firing rockets, digging tunnels, or otherwise terrorizing Israel.
 
Napoleon said:
That is not entirely true. The Israelis started annexing Palestinian land and building illegal settlements almost immediately and there was no shortage of those who believed in the idea of a Greater Israel where only Jews should be permitted to live. A few of the Israeli terrorist organizations peddling that ideology were ultimately integrated into the IDF too instead of jailing them as they should have done.

Israel still practices a territorial expansion that has always been disturbingly similar to the German "Lebensraum" policy - which is why their overtures of co-existence are viewed with skepticism as they gradually eliminate the "co" from the term through illegal settlement and eviction. The Israeli government prefers to use these settlements as bargaining chips in negotiations - which is why Bibi's knickers are in a twist - but it's a point of contention that wouldn't exist if they would stop annexing Palestinian land.
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The only land Israelis are so-called 'annexing' is land they conquered in 1967 in the Six-Day War when Israel successfully defeated Syria, Egpty and Jordan all supplied and funded by the other Arab nations. The intent of the Arabs was to annihilate the Jews and take all the Israeli land for themselves. In time Jordan and Egypt made peace with Israel but the Palestinian leadership would not. Israel has time and time again entered into peace talks with the Palestinians offering to return all that land except for the Golan Heights critical to its security, but each time the peace talks broke down because the PALESTINIANS would give up nothing--most especially their intended right to obliterate Israel and take all the land. And after awhile, the Israelis also gave up trying and just started using the land for themselves and took whatever measures were necessary to protect and defend their own people.

The Arabs don't care a diddly squat about the Palestinians or they would denounce placing weaponry among old men, women, and children and they would have long ago carved out a tiny parcel of land that any one of those countries could easily spare as a homeland for the Palestinians. But they keep the Palestinians in stress as leverage to generate world opinion against the Israelis.

It's just nuts.

Israel is about the size of a western U.S. county at roughly 200 miles long and 70 miles wide at its widest point. They don't bother anybody who leaves them alone. How could such a teensy place be ANY problem for the Arab world other than they just hate Jews and want them gone?

arabwld3.gif
 
AlbqOwl said:
The only land Israelis are so-called 'annexing' is land they conquered in 1967 in the Six-Day War when Israel successfully defeated Syria, Egpty and Jordan all supplied and funded by the other Arab nations. The intent of the Arabs was to annihilate the Jews and take all the Israeli land for themselves. In time Jordan and Egypt made peace with Israel but the Palestinian leadership would not. Israel has time and time again entered into peace talks with the Palestinians offering to return all that land except for the Golan Heights critical to its security, but each time the peace talks broke down because the PALESTINIANS would give up nothing--most especially their intended right to obliterate Israel and take all the land. And after awhile, the Israelis also gave up trying and just started using the land for themselves and took whatever measures were necessary to protect and defend their own people.

The Arabs don't care a diddly squat about the Palestinians or they would denounce placing weaponry among old men, women, and children and they would have long ago carved out a tiny parcel of land that any one of those countries could easily spare as a homeland for the Palestinians. But they keep the Palestinians in stress as leverage to generate world opinion against the Israelis.

It's just nuts.

Israel is about the size of a western U.S. county at roughly 200 miles long and 70 miles wide at its widest point. They don't bother anybody who leaves them alone. How could such a teensy place be ANY problem for the Arab world other than they just hate Jews and want them gone?

arabwld3.gif
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Greetings, AlbqOwl. :2wave:

:agree: Well said! :thumbs:

I have to agree with Jack Hays who suggested recently that he won't be surprised to see other ME countries like Saudi Arabia align with Israel against Iran, who appears to be a far greater threat to them than Israel ever was! Time will tell...
 
polgara said:
Greetings, AlbqOwl. :2wave:

:agree: Well said! :thumbs:

I have to agree with Jack Hays who suggested recently that he won't be surprised to see other ME countries like Saudi Arabia align with Israel against Iran, who appears to be a far greater threat to them than Israel ever was! Time will tell...
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That would be a very good thing. Note that the map doesn't even show Iran as the Iranians are not Arab, nor does it show Turkey as the Turks are not Arab. If the map showed all the nations who are Arab PLUS other nations who oppose Israel, the map would be much larger.

Desert Storm of course was triggered by Iraq's illegal takeover of Kuwait coupled with Saddam amassing a large force on the Iraqi/Saudi border with the intent of invading. The Saudis and Kuwaitis asked for help and got it. Nuclear weapons in the region would complicate a situation like that a great deal. And who knows what aggression an ambitious fanatical mullah might stir up?
 
AlbqOwl said:
The only land Israelis are so-called 'annexing' is land they conquered in 1967 in the Six-Day War when Israel successfully defeated Syria, Egpty and Jordan all supplied and funded by the other Arab nations. The intent of the Arabs was to annihilate the Jews and take all the Israeli land for themselves. In time Jordan and Egypt made peace with Israel but the Palestinian leadership would not. Israel has time and time again entered into peace talks with the Palestinians offering to return all that land except for the Golan Heights critical to its security, but each time the peace talks broke down because the PALESTINIANS would give up nothing--most especially their intended right to obliterate Israel and take all the land. And after awhile, the Israelis also gave up trying and just started using the land for themselves and took whatever measures were necessary to protect and defend their own people.

The Arabs don't care a diddly squat about the Palestinians or they would denounce placing weaponry among old men, women, and children and they would have long ago carved out a tiny parcel of land that any one of those countries could easily spare as a homeland for the Palestinians. But they keep the Palestinians in stress as leverage to generate world opinion against the Israelis.

It's just nuts.

Israel is about the size of a western U.S. county at roughly 200 miles long and 70 miles wide at its widest point. They don't bother anybody who leaves them alone. How could such a teensy place be ANY problem for the Arab world other than they just hate Jews and want them gone?

arabwld3.gif
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It's against international law to "annex" (steal) other peoples' land, however you come by it. That's all the UN has been saying since 1967.
 
Manc Skipper said:
It's against international law to "annex" (steal) other peoples' land, however you come by it. That's all the UN has been saying since 1967.
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Greetings, Manc Skipper. :2wave:

If the UN thinks it's a good idea to force countries to return land they conquered, there's going to be years of lawsuits filed against them by nearly every country on earth! As far back in history as we can go, the winners considered those lands as "spoils of war," and they're going to change history by writing a new law in the 1960s? Good luck with that!

It makes me wonder what land the American Indians might want our government to return to them, since it was theirs for a thousand years before we ever landed on this continent!
 
Manc Skipper said:
It's against international law to "annex" (steal) other peoples' land, however you come by it. That's all the UN has been saying since 1967.
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The Israelis didn't 'steal' it. They conquered it fair and square from people who intended to annihilate them. And the much larger and much more unprincipled aggressors, though soundly defeated and embarrassed, refuse to negotiate peace with Israel so that Israel could return the land. That land is the only bargaining chip Israel has against much larger, much more populated hostile neighbors. And if you go by ancient heritage and custom, the Jews have been on that land for at least 4000+ years and probably longer.

The Germans and Japanese didn't get their land back after WWII until they unconditionally surrendered, reformed themselves, and had in place structures and treaties pledging non aggression toward their neighbors and/or other continents involved in the war. Nobody thought it wrong to require such action from those aggressors. Why should Israel meekly submit to theirs with no concessions of any kind?
 
Conquering is theft by another name, and against international law. (which for Polgara's benefit is not retrospective) One of the reasons given for invading Iraq was that SH had conquered Kuwait.
 
Mac77 said:
I am not talking about alleged war crimes

The arabs broke the law by invading Israel and that has led to all the wars since then
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Except for the ones where the Israelis invaded.

And as for war crimes, well, it's hard to say "alleged" when they admitted it.
 
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