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Britain accuses Putin of 'war crimes' in Syria at bitter UN meeting

Simpleχity;1066370398 said:
:roll:

Perhaps you should try being consistent and address the OP topic.

Putin and Assad Are Outdoing ISIS at Mass Murder


Putin Is Playing by Grozny Rules in Aleppo


Watchdog Says Russian Air Strikes Killed Almost 3,800 Civilians In Past Year


EC86CEA3-7B15-4F1B-97C5-3A3C53902F06_w987_r1_s.jpg
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My position is easily defended and consistent................... I think all state leaders/military , peoples , groups are capable of committing war crimes. Russians and Syrians possibly have here by the looks of it. The same will probably be true of the opposition forces to Assad in Syria. But that won't feature in any of your posts because you , like the last poster I replied to in this thread , seem to think it can only apply to the ascribed enemies of your own country. :roll:

That you haven't sussed this out already is obvious from the US/Western cheer leadering/warmongering posts that you put up here all of the time.

Just look at the headline from your first link

Outdoing ISIS at Mass Murder

Why the U.S. can’t save Syria by talking to Russia

It takes as a given that the US actions are concerned with " saving Syria "............ they're not , they're concerned only with the ouster of Assad. They didn't and don't care about Afghans , it was about the Talibans ouster. They don't care about Iraqis , it was about Saddam Husseins ouster. Libya , Gaddafis ouster and there's a whole host before them too.

I don't intend to try to reason you out of your bigotry , it was reasoned in so it won't be reasoned out but at least try to smell the coffee............. you ain't half in for a rough ride cheerleading for people who are as dark in their outlooks and actions as those you have been conditioned to fear and hate

Just for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4zYlOU7Fpk
 
I don't think either side in this proxy war (US/Russia) can claim they've abided by international war with a straight face.
 
Baltim said:
I don't think either side in this proxy war (US/Russia) can claim they've abided by international war with a straight face.
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I agree 100%.

But if I didn't post about Russian war crimes in Ukraine and Syria, no one else on this board would do so.

Especially not the Trumpsters. It's beyond me how so-called American GOP 'conservatives' can ignore/excuse/support Russian aggression anywhere in the world.

Ronnie "Mr. Gorbachev, Tear Down This Wall" Reagan must be turning over in his grave.
 
Simpleχity;1066376714 said:
I agree 100%.

But if I didn't post about Russian war crimes in Ukraine and Syria, no one else on this board would do so.
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:roll:

So you are here on a self proclaimed mission to add some balance to all of those threads describing US/Western war crimes ? Wherever they are lol

If you " agree 100% " where are your posts describing Western/US war crimes ?

There are no posts here and most of your comment/dialogue as far as I can see either defend them or attack people for mentioning them
 
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oneworld2 said:
So you are here on a self proclaimed mission to add some balance to all of those threads describing US/Western war crimes ? Wherever they are lol
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DP has virtually everything of that nature. You're simply too lazy to locate things.
 
Simpleχity;1066386939 said:
DP has virtually everything of that nature. You're simply too lazy to locate things.
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I haven't seen many here. I've seen a few posters express opinions stating disagreement with certain actions and many more talk about " mistakes " " blunders " etc but as for thread titles that state the term or refer to Western " war crimes " nope. Nothing even remotely close enough to justify your output. Be honest you just like peddling US propaganda and wilfully ignore the crimes of your own people. So your claim remains a bogus one imo
 
oneworld2 said:
I haven't seen many here. I've seen a few posters express opinions stating disagreement with certain actions and many more talk about " mistakes " " blunders " etc but as for thread titles that state the term or refer to Western " war crimes " nope. Nothing even remotely close enough to justify your output. Be honest you just like peddling US propaganda and wilfully ignore the crimes of your own people. So your claim remains a bogus one imo
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For one side the striking of civilians is a regrettable error.

For the other side the striking of civilians is standard operating procedures.

Assad and his BBFs the Russians fall into the second category.
 
oneworld2 said:
I don't think that US government officials are in a position to lecture people on war crimes do you ?
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Actually yes I do.


oneworld2 said:
It's not like they haven't committed a good few of their own since the American empire began to take over the planet.
It's a bit like Saddam Hussein berating people for using gas attacks
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Aside from torturing suspected terrorists, the US government has not committed any war crimes for more than 100 years.

And if anyone wants to complain about torture, they should start by getting justice for all the American POWs tortured in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.
 
Baltim said:
I don't think either side in this proxy war (US/Russia) can claim they've abided by international war with a straight face.
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I don't think this is a proxy war between the US and Russia. But as it happens, the US can indeed claim with a straight face to have abided with the laws of war.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And that is all the West has remaining of its Syrian policy, a disaster from the jump, which has run for years.
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How has US policy been a disaster? By keeping the US out of the fight, Obama has saved countless Americans from needless death.


Hawkeye10 said:
It is all net for Putin though, he took a risk, he executed, and now reaps the rewards.
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Aside from getting to keep a military base on the Mediterranean, what does Putin gain from perpetrating genocide against the Syrian people?


Hawkeye10 said:
The West has the angry words of a loser who just took a beating that they never saw coming. That's it.
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I do not think that Obama has received any beating here. When someone is perpetrating genocide, angry words against them might be appropriate.


Hawkeye10 said:
ASIDE: I saw the other day where CJCS Dunford had to explain to Congress that the proposed NATO air cap over Syria would mean war with Russia. What a pack of jokers.
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If Hillary is elected, we might see a large volley of cruise missiles crater all the runways in Syria. If there are any Russians at those airfields, they might want to get out of the way.


Hawkeye10 said:
Winners are very often not the nice guys, but Putin takes brutality pretty far. We knew that from Chechnya, but Chechnya worked for him, which is why you see him now taking out operating hospitals in Aleppo, which I predict will help the China/Russia/Iran cooperative a great deal in the region.
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As I recall, when Russia committed genocide in Chechnya, they provoked the survivors into some pretty vicious retaliation.

I expect that Russia's genocide in Syria will result in similarly vicious retaliation.


Hawkeye10 said:
A Putin win is a USA/Europe loss, make no mistake about that, and the last 18 years of American Presidents have lost big to Putin.
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I don't perceive any loss for the US. I suppose Europe has the headache of dealing with the refugees.

We do need to move troops into the Baltics in order to protect them from Russian aggression though.
 
Toggle Almendro said:
How has US policy been a disaster? By keeping the US out of the fight, Obama has saved countless Americans from needless death.
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Lives spent is a part of the input, but sometimes investments are a good idea. All you are saying is that we have decided to not invest lives, which may ore may not be a good idea.

Aside from getting to keep a military base on the Mediterranean, what does Putin gain from perpetrating genocide against the Syrian people?
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He builds the Russian Brand, he uses the win to build his team (partnerships with nations) and he proves to the Chinese that he is useful which given thee many problems of Russia today is very important, because China is the future.


-----------------------------------

Snip the rest, I am bored.
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Baltim said:
I don't think either side in this proxy war (US/Russia) can claim they've abided by international war with a straight face.
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Spot on.

This situation was mostly created by western powers and Assad and Russia is trying to deal with it, albeit in a manner that doesn't have a lot of finesse but the end result may be better in the long run.

How long was the U.S. in Iraq and still in Afghanistan and what was the end result? Pretty much a big zero in putting down the insurgencies.

Oh, and we're just talking about Syria here. Do we get to bring up our support of war crimes in Yemen by continually selling arms to Saudi Arabia, which includes white phosphorus munitions supplied by the U.S.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...upplied-white-phosphorus-in-its-war-in-yemen/

Syria has never been about human rights or the welfare of the Syrian people.
 
Simpleχity;1066376714 said:
I agree 100%.

But if I didn't post about Russian war crimes in Ukraine and Syria, no one else on this board would do so.

Especially not the Trumpsters. It's beyond me how so-called American GOP 'conservatives' can ignore/excuse/support Russian aggression anywhere in the world.

Ronnie "Mr. Gorbachev, Tear Down This Wall" Reagan must be turning over in his grave.
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You mean the west-backed Kiev government committing war crimes in Ukraine, right? I think you got confused.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-civilians
 
oneworld2 said:
:roll:

So you are here on a self proclaimed mission to add some balance to all of those threads describing US/Western war crimes ? Wherever they are lol

If you " agree 100% " where are your posts describing Western/US war crimes ?

There are no posts here and most of your comment/dialogue as far as I can see either defend them or attack people for mentioning them
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Dude...didn't you know?! There is no news coverage on the humanitarian crisis in Syria. We have to get the word out! Oh wait...that would be Yemen and eastern Ukraine.
 
oneworld2 said:
I haven't seen many here. I've seen a few posters express opinions stating disagreement with certain actions and many more talk about " mistakes " " blunders " etc but as for thread titles that state the term or refer to Western " war crimes " nope. Nothing even remotely close enough to justify your output. Be honest you just like peddling US propaganda and wilfully ignore the crimes of your own people. So your claim remains a bogus one imo
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Some of us try.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/inter...-isnt-human-rights-foreign-policies-lies.html
 
Fledermaus said:
For one side the striking of civilians is a regrettable error.

For the other side the striking of civilians is standard operating procedures.

Assad and his BBFs the Russians fall into the second category.
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Things that make you hmmm...

 
Toggle Almendro said:
Actually yes I do.

Aside from torturing suspected terrorists, the US government has not committed any war crimes for more than 100 years.

And if anyone wants to complain about torture, they should start by getting justice for all the American POWs tortured in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.
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"Aside from war crimes, we haven't committed any war crimes." <--- Huh?
 
Fledermaus said:
For one side the striking of civilians is a regrettable error.

For the other side the striking of civilians is standard operating procedures.

Assad and his BBFs the Russians fall into the second category.
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I don't think that that's the full story

To me its the difference between the authoritarian regimes approach and fake democratic regimes approach ( you fall into the second category )

It does the authoritarians image no harm to display open acts of violence that show a disregard for human life, for reasons that shouldn't really need an explanation

The fake democratic regimes are a little more complicated to explain especially to their die hard support and again for obvious reasons but here goes..........

They have an image at home for being fair , good , decent etc etc that they and their friends in the public relations ( media ) dept have worked extremely hard to construct , so open any obvious acts of violence are usually referred to as " mistakes " , " blunders " etc as in keeping with the perception management that I outlined earlier.

The truth imo is that neither care much about collateral damage/civilian casualties with regards to the people on the receiving end , they just have different images to keep up.

Both are quite prepared to see untold misery and human sufferings as a result of their actions so long as it is deemed to have advanced the interests of the ruling elites that are the real beneficiaries
 
Toggle Almendro said:
Actually yes I do.



Aside from torturing suspected terrorists, the US government has not committed any war crimes for more than 100 years.

And if anyone wants to complain about torture, they should start by getting justice for all the American POWs tortured in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.
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I think it's fair to say that if the same principles applied at the Nuremburg Trials were applied to US actions throughout history they would be able to charge nearly all the US presidents as war criminals

I'll just give you one example where the laws governing international conflicts were applied to US actions and they were found guilty of war crimes

See the ICJs verdict with regards to the Nicaragua V USA case from the 1980.s

Obvious charges of genocide would surely be upheld with regards to the native American Indians

It's a long and vicious history and I don't think your comments above would withstand the challenge TBH
 
Fishking said:
Things that make you hmmm...

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The response will be that it was all Saddams fault that those kids died ,such is the conditioning needed to hang on to the myth that we are , by some strange quirk of genetics or divine intervention , the good people of the world

BTW I wished I could have thanked you multiple times for this post , hey ho
 
sorry duplicate post
 
Fledermaus said:
Hmmmmm

An embargo Saddam could have ended by merely complying with inspections. Right?
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The two diplomats that ran the programme resigned claiming that the sanctions were tantamount to genocide.

And inspections were being carried out whilst the sanctions were going on

Read what Hans Blix has stated or Scott Ritter about the policies against the Iraqi people
 
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