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Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors[W:19]

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[h=1]Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors[/h]
The proposal: The US gives Israel an increase in military aid:

The United States is offering Israel $3.5 billion to $3.7 billion a year in military assistance over a decade, a major increase from current levels but less than the $4 billion a year initially proposed by Netanyahu’s government.

but Israel has to spend it on US made arms instead of giving it directly to their own industry, which is in direct competition with the US in the arms market:

But, since then, Israel’s security firms have flourished and in some cases now compete with U.S. defense contractors in global markets, selling $5.7 billion worth of weaponry in 2015, with sophisticated radars, electronic systems, drones, and missiles topping the list of high-end exports. That was almost double the $3 billion worth of equipment it exported in 2003.

and Israel could count on a ten year agreement instead of depending on our Congress for a renewal of aid each year.

The US defense industry likes the proposal:


For U.S. defense firms selling high-end, sophisticated weapons, any expansion of the Israeli market represents a lucrative opportunity, as the American companies can no longer count on major increases in the Pentagon’s budget, which has leveled off in recent years.

and the outcome? Who knows?
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

If Israel is that good at making weapons to the point of competing with American defense contractors, why should the U.S continue to provide the country with nearly 4 billion dollars in military aid?
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

If Israel is that good at making weapons to the point of competing with American defense contractors, why should the U.S continue to provide the country with nearly 4 billion dollars in military aid?


They should get a red cent in aid. Neither should Egypt. We should bill Israel for the USS Liberty though.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

They should get a red cent in aid. Neither should Egypt. We should bill Israel for the USS Liberty though.

In the case of Egypt, the aid directly serves American interest in the region, as Egypt is an influential and strategic ally of the U.S, and it's in the country's best interest to continue to cajole it and to keep it stable. Furthermore, Egypt gets a fraction of the military aid Israel gets, despite being a much bigger and influential country.

Nevertheless, I'd still support the resolution to eliminate military aid regardless of the recipient.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

If Israel is that good at making weapons to the point of competing with American defense contractors, why should the U.S continue to provide the country with nearly 4 billion dollars in military aid?

Because failing to support aid for Israel is seen politically as tantamount to support of terrorism and is therefore political suicide.

Anyway, Israel is a tiny nation surrounded by enemies and probably wouldn't survive without the help of the US regardless of their arms industry.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Because failing to support aid for Israel is seen politically as tantamount to support of terrorism and is therefore political suicide.

Anyway, Israel is a tiny nation surrounded by enemies and probably wouldn't survive without the help of the US regardless of their arms industry.

Israel is surrounded by four states: Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. Both Jordan and Egypt have longstanding peace resolutions and full diplomatic relations with Israel. Lebanon has long adopted a separation approach with Israel, and Syria is hardly a country anymore, not to mention how it failed to respond to multiple instances of Israeli aggression/incursion in the past. So no, Israel isn't surrounded by enemies. In fact, regional powers such as KSA, UAE, and Turkey have been pushing for increased military and intelligence cooperation with Israel in recent years.

More importantly, no amount of military aid would actually spare Israel in a case of full-blown conventional war. That is to say, the military aid with which the U.S provides Israel is of tactical nature. At the end of the day, nothing short of the mobilization of the U.S army would preserve Israel.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Israel is surrounded by four states: Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. Both Jordan and Egypt have longstanding peace resolutions and full diplomatic relations with Israel. Lebanon has long adopted a separation approach with Israel, and Syria is hardly a country anymore, not to mention how it failed to respond to multiple instances of Israeli aggression/incursion in the past. So no, Israel isn't surrounded by enemies. In fact, regional powers such as KSA, UAE, and Turkey have been pushing for increased military and intelligence cooperation with Israel in recent years.

More importantly, no amount of military aid would actually spare Israel in a case of full-blown conventional war. That is to say, the military aid with which the U.S provides Israel is of tactical nature. At the end of the day, nothing short of the mobilization of the U.S army would preserve Israel.

while i believe the biggest threat to israel's security is its present government, israel's nuclear capacity would assure itself of victory. there would be no need to refuse to use such weapons in a heretofore conventional war where israel's military was on the short end of the stick
so, israel could go it alone, without us. but its odds of avoiding that nuclear dilemma are much better with the USA in its pocket
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Israel is surrounded by four states: Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. Both Jordan and Egypt have longstanding peace resolutions and full diplomatic relations with Israel. Lebanon has long adopted a separation approach with Israel, and Syria is hardly a country anymore, not to mention how it failed to respond to multiple instances of Israeli aggression/incursion in the past. So no, Israel isn't surrounded by enemies. In fact, regional powers such as KSA, UAE, and Turkey have been pushing for increased military and intelligence cooperation with Israel in recent years.

More importantly, no amount of military aid would actually spare Israel in a case of full-blown conventional war. That is to say, the military aid with which the U.S provides Israel is of tactical nature. At the end of the day, nothing short of the mobilization of the U.S army would preserve Israel.

and the other nations of the Mid East don't despise Israel and wish it gone?
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

and the other nations of the Mid East don't despise Israel and wish it gone?

Assuming this is objectively true, it has no bearing to policy and decision making, as the world is full of countries and groups that despise each other. What matters to the state is whether a perceived adversary has the will and the means to harm it. In the case of Israel, no Middle Eastern nation satisfies either criteria.

As for the veracity of your belief, I already provided ample evidence to the contrary. In fact, some 15 years ago, the Arab League made a peace proposal to Israel that would fully normalize relations with it in exchange for a Palestinian state according to the internationally recognized 1967 borders. Considering the bloody history they share with Israel, and more importantly, considering what Israel continues to do to Palestinians, Middle Eastern nations have a legitimate reason to denounce Israel, even if the west doesn't share them the sentiment.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

while i believe the biggest threat to israel's security is its present government, israel's nuclear capacity would assure itself of victory. there would be no need to refuse to use such weapons in a heretofore conventional war where israel's military was on the short end of the stick
so, israel could go it alone, without us. but its odds of avoiding that nuclear dilemma are much better with the USA in its pocket

This holds on paper, but if Israel ever found itself in such a desperate situation, it'd already have lost its battle of survival. Being a young and tiny state, Israel lacks the geopolitical and demographic depth to be revived after such a scenario.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Assuming this is objectively true, it has no bearing to policy and decision making, as the world is full of countries and groups that despise each other. What matters to the state is whether a perceived adversary has the will and the means to harm it. In the case of Israel, no Middle Eastern nation satisfies either criteria.

As for the veracity of your belief, I already provided ample evidence to the contrary. In fact, some 15 years ago, the Arab League made a peace proposal to Israel that would fully normalize relations with it in exchange for a Palestinian state according to the internationally recognized 1967 borders. Considering the bloody history they share with Israel, and more importantly, considering what Israel continues to do to Palestinians, Middle Eastern nations have a legitimate reason to denounce Israel, even if the west doesn't share them the sentiment.

Not sure what the point of that may be. If they have a legitimate reason to denounce Israel, does that mean we should just leave Israel to sink or swim on its own?
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Not sure what the point of that may be. If they have a legitimate reason to denounce Israel, does that mean we should just leave Israel to sink or swim on its own?

I didn't say that. There's a difference between a state having an issue with another and a state wishing for its absolute demise. This is the point I'm making. The mantra of all Middle Eastern states wish for the annihilation of Israel was coined and popularized by the Israeli right to justify its hawkish and racist platform and legitimize its views on the conflict.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

I didn't say that. There's a difference between a state having an issue with another and a state wishing for its absolute demise. This is the point I'm making. The mantra of all Middle Eastern states wish for the annihilation of Israel was coined and popularized by the Israeli right to justify its hawkish and racist platform and legitimize its views on the conflict.

Seems the Israeli right might have something to back them up, though:

Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei described Israel as a “fake” regime, and said there won’t be any Israel in 25 years from now.

“Some of the Zionists have said that given the results of the nuclear negotiations (between Tehran and the world powers), they have been relieved of concerns about Iran for 25 years, but we tell them that basically, you will not see the next 25 years and with God’s grace, nothing under the name of the Zionist regime will exist in the region by then,” Ayatollah Khamenei said, addressing a large number of Iranians in Tehran on Wednesday.



Read more: Iran's Supreme Leader Vows To Destroy Israel | The Daily Caller
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

This holds on paper, but if Israel ever found itself in such a desperate situation, it'd already have lost its battle of survival. Being a young and tiny state, Israel lacks the geopolitical and demographic depth to be revived after such a scenario.

As it should be. It was the worst possible place to found a Jewish state. Should have carved out a piece of Alaska or North Dakota for them if we must have. Maybe some place in Australia..........
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Seems the Israeli right might have something to back them up, though:

Iran isn't a part of the Arab-Israeli conflict; it injects itself into the conflict for geopolitical reasons. Israel doesn't wish for the rise of a regional power that could contest its hegemony in the region and compete for its monopolizing alliance with world's powers, which prompts Iran to wield the conflict as a bargaining chip, whether through supporting Hamas and Hezbollah or making such maniacal proclamations. There's also the utility of riling up the Iranian wing nuts and garnering their support through such proclamations, just like a republican rouses his constituents through promises of second comings and greater Israel.
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Iran isn't a part of the Arab-Israeli conflict; it injects itself into the conflict for geopolitical reasons. Israel doesn't wish for the rise of a regional power that could contest its hegemony in the region and compete for its monopolizing alliance with world's powers, which prompts Iran to wield the conflict as a bargaining chip, whether through supporting Hamas and Hezbollah or making such maniacal proclamations. There's also the utility of riling up the Iranian wing nuts and garnering their support through such proclamations, just like a republican rouses his constituents through promises of second comings and greater Israel.

Is Palestinians' habit of shooting rockets at Israel a part of the Arab Israeli conflict?
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Is Palestinians' habit of shooting rockets at Israel a part of the Arab Israeli conflict?

hell yes, how could it not be

just as is the residence on Palestinian lands by israeli settlers
 
Re: Obama to Israel: Our Tax Dollars Won’t Go to Your Defense Contractors

Moderator's Warning:
The topic of the thread does not directly address the I/P conflict. Discussing the I/P conflict outside the I/P forum is not permitted, either.

Please return to the topic in the OP.
 
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