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Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure[W:139]

Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Middleground said:
Before I tackle this one, I'd like to read "Anatomy of Bush's Iraq Failure," first. Not sure I'd be able to get through it in my lifetime, though.
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Ah, the old "but but.....your guy did it too!" defense. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Jack Hays said:
We still have troops in Europe over 70 years after victory there.
We still have troops in Korea over 60 years after victory there.
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It doesn't bother you that that wasn't the conflict we were sold?

You don't see it as a command failure that Bush knew that the public wasn't interested in a long-term commitment and proceeded anyway?

If they had been upfront about an open-ended, multi-decade campaign in the beginning, they would have had a much harder time garnering support for the invasion.

It's difficult to imagine that would have turned out worse, in hindsight.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

TheDemSocialist said:
Yes replacing a sectarian authoritarian leader with another sectarian authoritarian leader thus opening it up to a civil war that never ended. "Victory!" :doh
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The Iraq GWB left was better than the one he found.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Jack Hays said:
The Iraq GWB left was better than the one he found.
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That's as utterly delusional, dishonest and laughably historically illiterate a statement as I've ever seen here. The desperation is almost palpable.

Congratulations!
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Tanngrisnir said:
That's as utterly delusional, dishonest and laughably historically illiterate a statement as I've ever seen here. The desperation is almost palpable.

Congratulations!
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Please see #58.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Jack Hays said:
A nascent democracy in which the majority Shia were no longer oppressed.
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Where the Sunni minority was persecuted instead and Iraq is taking orders from Iran. 6 of one and half dozen of the other.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

iguanaman said:
Where the Sunni minority was persecuted instead and Iraq is taking orders from Iran. 6 of one and half dozen of the other.
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No. There are now democratic norms and forms. Had BHO retained a US troop presence there would have been fewer excesses.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but substance will be required to participate. Your customary content-free insults are uninteresting.
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You have offered nothing up substance to address; your unsupported bare assertions aren't the arguments you try to pass them off to be.

Iraq and Iraqis were by many metrics far better off under Saddam. That you cannot begin to fathom that simply is more evidence of your utter lack of historical literacy and intellectual honesty.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Tanngrisnir said:
You have offered nothing up substance to address; your unsupported bare assertions aren't the arguments you try to pass them off to be.

Iraq and Iraqis were by many metrics far better off under Saddam. That you cannot begin to fathom that simply is more evidence of your utter lack of historical literacy and intellectual honesty.
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Anyone see a source? I don't.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Jack Hays said:
Had US forces remained in Iraq, the Syrian nightmare and ISIS would likely have been precluded.
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Why would keep troops there? They would be sitting ducks just like they were 2003-2005.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

coldjoint said:
Anyone see a source? I don't.
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Although it frightens you, Google wants to be your friend:

Iraqis say 'Tony Blair and George Bush destroyed our country' in Chilcot report | Daily Mail Online
Forbes Welcome
Here's What Life In Iraq Was Like Under Saddam Hussein - Business Insider
Abadi's Reforms and the Death of U.S.-Imposed Democracy in Iraq | US News
It was better to live in Iraq under Saddam

Understanding the context of those links above requires some sort of historical literacy and intellectual honesty, so they won't be of much interest to you.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Tanngrisnir said:
You have offered nothing up substance to address; your unsupported bare assertions aren't the arguments you try to pass them off to be.

Iraq and Iraqis were by many metrics far better off under Saddam. That you cannot begin to fathom that simply is more evidence of your utter lack of historical literacy and intellectual honesty.
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:coffeepap:roll:
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Tanngrisnir said:
You have offered nothing up substance to address; your unsupported bare assertions aren't the arguments you try to pass them off to be.

Iraq and Iraqis were by many metrics far better off under Saddam. That you cannot begin to fathom that simply is more evidence of your utter lack of historical literacy and intellectual honesty.
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Well, as long as they weren't Kurds. Or Shiites. Or Jewish.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

yankintx said:
Why would keep troops there? They would be sitting ducks just like they were 2003-2005.
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By 2009 they were not sitting ducks. Why keep them there? To support a Middle East Pax Americana that might enable an Israeli-Palestinian settlement.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Tigerace117 said:
Well, as long as they weren't Kurds. Or Shiites. Or Jewish.
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And I didn't argue otherwise. That considered, however, for the majority of Iraqis, live was demonstrably better under Saddam.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Tanngrisnir said:
And I didn't argue otherwise. That considered, however, for the majority of Iraqis, live was demonstrably better under Saddam.
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Since Shia are about 80% of the population you seem to have refuted your own assertion.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Tigerace117 said:
Well, as long as they weren't Kurds. Or Shiites. Or Jewish.
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Being mostly secular, Saddam suppressed strife between the sects. Baghdad had many integrated areas before the invasion that became bloodbaths after Saddam was gone.
 
Re: Anatomy of Obama's Iraq Failure

Jack Hays said:
Since Shia are about 80% of the population you seem to have refuted your own assertion.
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Yawn. My statement stands. it's a question of degree; a subtlety that's clearly and unfortunately something you're unable to comprehend.
 
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