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D&D 1E vs. 5E - WARNING GEEK ALERT

What do you enjoy about that version?

In my opinion, it does the best job making the game feel real... the rules make sense to me, there is a aspect of realism. You can quite easily not play a hero character, or not be a holy trinity group to be viable. It feels less like a video game import to the bored and more like a simulation.

It certainly has it's weaknesses...Like magic users can become game breakingly powerful, but there are simple well known balancing strategies you can implement in the game. Or that the combat system takes an extremely long time(I haven't found this version to be any different than others in that regard... what really slows things down is people not understanding their characters, or players that are hyper maximizers about everything)
 
Heh, did you play any 4th?

Ironically enough, despite the "video gamey" feel that 4e's class design could give off, it would be a nightmare to try and make it into a MMORPG because of all the immediate interrupt effects. Having the mechanical ability to say "no, THIS is what happened" would be a bitch of an effect to have to program into anything with more than one player.
 
I tried, honestly I tried.

Have you heard of Roll20 before? If your in-person game is a bit bland for your taste, you can join an online group there, using a massive variety of systems. Online play might not be as engaging as in-person pkay for many peopl, but it's kept my college group together after the transfers and graduations started to roll in.
 
Those of you as old as me may have played D&D when it first started (1st edition, or 1E)

I recently started playing again after all these years using 5th edition with a group of friends.
They’re not the same game at all so not really comparable – different era, different company, different development process, different aims and significantly, different target audience. Starting a little with 3E and completely with 4E, the direction shifted entirely. They weren’t trying to attract war gamers with more depth and story, they’re trying to attract video gamers with a similar all-action experience. Once you realise that, many of the differences make sense (whether you like them or not – I’m not a great fan either).

The reality is that there are thousands of different systems out there, especially if you include all of the free and out-of-print ones, and they can often offer vastly different experiences. I don’t see the point of complaining about one version of one system, just use one of the many that do work the way you like (with adjustments if necessary). That’s one of the main advantages of P&P games in the first place; you can literally make up your own game rules.
 
Ive never tried 5E D&D, but played pretty much every tabletop RPG when I was a kid. 1st Ed D&D was surprisingly not that popular among my gaming group because it needed so much prep time and a lot of players (who werent evil- Otherwise we'd end up killing each other). We preferred Gamma World, Top Secret (secret agent RPG) and Marvel Superheroes. I also played Boot Hill, TMNT, Star Frontiers, Call of Cthulhu, Ringworld, and the last group I was with played Battletech as an RPG- I actually got my start in writing because I loved doing BT fanfiction.

Way back then all us grandkids (we were a big clan) would stay at my grandmother's huge house in VA during the holidays (there was a gaming room on the ground floor which was our domain) and stay up all night playing RPGs. Granny was rich so we always ordered enough pizza and soda to last us for days.
 
Those of you as old as me may have played D&D when it first started (1st edition, or 1E)

I recently started playing again after all these years using 5th edition with a group of friends.

One thing that people seem to like about 5E is that it's streamlined and balanced relative to earlier editions.

However in my opinion, the 5E rules have streamlined much of the fun out of it, and made it rather bland.

Some changes are just ridiculous such as being able to heal all damage with an 8 hour rest. Further, you get three "death saves" before you are considered permanently dead. Plus you can buy healing kits for cheap that can stabilize you. Heck, in 5E,(unlike 1E) poison can't kill you, it just reduce your hp a little. It's actually hard to die in 5E. Whereas in 1E, you had to be careful about what you did because death was around every corner.

Spells can now be cast in a single round, which is good, as it increases a magic users survivability, but many spells have been watered down. For example, in 1E, a 30th level wizard could cast a fireball of 30d6. In 5E, it maxes out around 12d6 regardless of your level.

There was no level cap in 1E. Levels in 5E are capped at 20.

In 5E, there is way too much focus and time spent on character background. It may seem relevant, but typically after the 3rd or 4th session, a characters background rarely comes into play unless the DM wants to use it to drive the adventure.

In 5E grappling can only prevent an opponent from moving from point A to point B. They can still attack or cast a spell...so grappling is pretty useless.

Almost all classes in 5E can cast spells, or have spell like abilities, which kind of makes being a magic user less relevant.

What are your thoughts?

Interesting reading this thread and your post here. A few things of note. I played 1E only once when I was about 9 or so. My folks never let me play it again so it wasn't until i was 17 that I was able to play it again (without their knowledge). So I essentially came in and got really hooked on 2E which is what my friends had. When 3E came out I was totally disillusioned from it though and refused to play it. Too many ridiculous rules started coming into play then. I liked 2E because, as even the DMG said...you can make up the rules. The book was just a guideline, not the end all be all. That REALLY allowed you to use your imagination.

Anyways, one thing I noted while reading the thread...levels were not capped in 2E. The books only went up to lvl 20 when showing how much xp you needed to gain the next level. But the DMG (think it was the DMG? Can't remember exactly) also showed you how to figure out a reasonable amount of XP for levels beyond 20. As such there was no "lvl cap". Well...unless you wanted there to be one. Totally up to you. ;)

From the way you describe 5E I seriously would not like it. Not enough room for imagination to play.
 
Those of you as old as me may have played D&D when it first started (1st edition, or 1E)

I recently started playing again after all these years using 5th edition with a group of friends.

One thing that people seem to like about 5E is that it's streamlined and balanced relative to earlier editions.

However in my opinion, the 5E rules have streamlined much of the fun out of it, and made it rather bland.

Some changes are just ridiculous such as being able to heal all damage with an 8 hour rest. Further, you get three "death saves" before you are considered permanently dead. Plus you can buy healing kits for cheap that can stabilize you. Heck, in 5E,(unlike 1E) poison can't kill you, it just reduce your hp a little. It's actually hard to die in 5E. Whereas in 1E, you had to be careful about what you did because death was around every corner.

Spells can now be cast in a single round, which is good, as it increases a magic users survivability, but many spells have been watered down. For example, in 1E, a 30th level wizard could cast a fireball of 30d6. In 5E, it maxes out around 12d6 regardless of your level.

There was no level cap in 1E. Levels in 5E are capped at 20.

In 5E, there is way too much focus and time spent on character background. It may seem relevant, but typically after the 3rd or 4th session, a characters background rarely comes into play unless the DM wants to use it to drive the adventure.

In 5E grappling can only prevent an opponent from moving from point A to point B. They can still attack or cast a spell...so grappling is pretty useless.

Almost all classes in 5E can cast spells, or have spell like abilities, which kind of makes being a magic user less relevant.

What are your thoughts?

In my opinion D&D hit it's peak fun level with 3.5e. I didn't play a ton of the earlier editions, but I played enough to know that the rules were a confusing mishmash. 3.5 simplified the rules a good bit, but still left a ton of room for customization. I feel like later editions dumbed things down too much (with 4e being the absolute worst). 3.5e certainly isn't without its flaws, but it's by far the most fun of the 4 editions I've played. If you want something that's still a current, in-print system, Pathfinder is very similar to 3.5e.
 
. Starting a little with 3E and completely with 4E, the direction shifted entirely. They weren’t trying to attract war gamers with more depth and story, they’re trying to attract video gamers with a similar all-action experience.

Yes, I think you're right. The blandness I mentioned comes from the somewhat same-y feel of the different classes

The reality is that there are thousands of different systems out there, especially if you include all of the free and out-of-print ones, and they can often offer vastly different experiences. I don’t see the point of complaining about one version of one system, just use one of the many that do work the way you like (with adjustments if necessary). That’s one of the main advantages of P&P games in the first place; you can literally make up your own game rules.

In my neck of the woods, the only groups I've found are D&D and Pathfinder. I'll probably try online groups like JB suggested.
 
Interesting reading this thread and your post here. A few things of note. I played 1E only once when I was about 9 or so. My folks never let me play it again so it wasn't until i was 17 that I was able to play it again (without their knowledge).

Yea, I remember back then, some politician's wife (Tipper Gore?) tried to convince parents that kids who played D&D would turn into Satanist. :roll:

Anyways, one thing I noted while reading the thread...levels were not capped in 2E. The books only went up to lvl 20 when showing how much xp you needed to gain the next level. But the DMG (think it was the DMG? Can't remember exactly) also showed you how to figure out a reasonable amount of XP for levels beyond 20. As such there was no "lvl cap". Well...unless you wanted there to be one. Totally up to you. ;)

Yes, now I remember. Thanks!
 
Yea, I remember back then, some politician's wife (Tipper Gore?) tried to convince parents that kids who played D&D would turn into Satanist. :roll:

Yeah, it was all the rage back then. It didn't help that at the time my parents were Jehovah Witnesses. :doh

Yes, now I remember. Thanks!

You're welcome. :) I loved playing D&D. Problem is that I stopped playing mainly due to the fact that the people I played with either died or moved away. Sucks. I plan on getting my kids to play when they're a bit older but I'll need to go on ebay or some such to find the 2E books again. I've only got a couple left after a few unfortunate events. :(

I remember one time I was asleep while my roommates were discussing D&D. One of them asked a question of the other and neither one could remember what the answer was. Before they could look it up in the books I answered it. When they found it in the books they couldn't believe I had gotten it correct. ....yeah...loved that game. ;) lol Of course I don't remember answering them as I was asleep. So I'm only going by what they told me. I wasn't sure if I should be proud or embarrassed at the time lol. I played it off nonchalantly though. lol
 
Have you heard of Roll20 before? If your in-person game is a bit bland for your taste, you can join an online group there, using a massive variety of systems. Online play might not be as engaging as in-person pkay for many peopl, but it's kept my college group together after the transfers and graduations started to roll in.

I'll put in another +1 for the notion of roll20. I've been playing on it weekly for the past 3 years now with friends from home that are now spread around the country. Not quite the same as sitting around a table all together, but pretty damn close (and better in some instances honestly)
 
You're welcome. :) I loved playing D&D. Problem is that I stopped playing mainly due to the fact that the people I played with either died or moved away. Sucks. I plan on getting my kids to play when they're a bit older but I'll need to go on ebay or some such to find the 2E books again. I've only got a couple left after a few unfortunate events. :(

I remember one time I was asleep while my roommates were discussing D&D. One of them asked a question of the other and neither one could remember what the answer was. Before they could look it up in the books I answered it. When they found it in the books they couldn't believe I had gotten it correct. ....yeah...loved that game. ;) lol Of course I don't remember answering them as I was asleep. So I'm only going by what they told me. I wasn't sure if I should be proud or embarrassed at the time lol. I played it off nonchalantly though. lol

I held on to my 1st and 2nd edition books all the way through college, even though I couldn't find anyone to play with after my Freshman year. But after I graduated, I moved into a small apartment with limited space, so I tossed them all out...including the original Deities & Demigods book that I understand is now worth a small fortune:doh

Oh yea, I was complete rules dork. I remember talking with a friend about an obscure issue related to psionics**, and he showed me that he knew exactly what I meant..by finishing my sentence...scary

**It was the issue with psionic blasting a fighter. The average fighter would become enraged when blasted, which was not a good situation for a squishy wizard to be in.
 
In my opinion, it does the best job making the game feel real... the rules make sense to me, there is a aspect of realism. You can quite easily not play a hero character, or not be a holy trinity group to be viable. It feels less like a video game import to the bored and more like a simulation.

It certainly has it's weaknesses...Like magic users can become game breakingly powerful, but there are simple well known balancing strategies you can implement in the game. Or that the combat system takes an extremely long time(I haven't found this version to be any different than others in that regard... what really slows things down is people not understanding their characters, or players that are hyper maximizers about everything)

the joy of the game, was to be immersed into another world

you and your friends, playing these made up characters roamed this world the DM created....exploring areas, rescuing people, smiting evil, you know...having fun

And as you went from one night of adventuring to another, your character grew...he became more than a sheet of paper. He got a background, a reason for being, and a reason for being with these other fellow travellers

I was blessed to have been ran by a few of the great DM's early in the game....took what i liked from them, and incorporated those ideas into my groups later

Spent a number of years in the D&D world...dragon magazine, TSR hobby shops, and such. I sold all my 1st edition stuff about 10 years ago....and it brought a nice chunk of change....

But those memories, those people....they will be with me till the day i die
 
Ive never tried 5E D&D, but played pretty much every tabletop RPG when I was a kid. 1st Ed D&D was surprisingly not that popular among my gaming group because it needed so much prep time and a lot of players (who werent evil- Otherwise we'd end up killing each other). We preferred Gamma World, Top Secret (secret agent RPG) and Marvel Superheroes. I also played Boot Hill, TMNT, Star Frontiers, Call of Cthulhu, Ringworld, and the last group I was with played Battletech as an RPG- I actually got my start in writing because I loved doing BT fanfiction.

Way back then all us grandkids (we were a big clan) would stay at my grandmother's huge house in VA during the holidays (there was a gaming room on the ground floor which was our domain) and stay up all night playing RPGs. Granny was rich so we always ordered enough pizza and soda to last us for days.

Just thought I would mention that there is going to be a new Battletech computer game coming out this year. Turn based, nice graphics.
 
Those of you as old as me may have played D&D when it first started (1st edition, or 1E)

I recently started playing again after all these years using 5th edition with a group of friends.

One thing that people seem to like about 5E is that it's streamlined and balanced relative to earlier editions.

However in my opinion, the 5E rules have streamlined much of the fun out of it, and made it rather bland.

Some changes are just ridiculous such as being able to heal all damage with an 8 hour rest. Further, you get three "death saves" before you are considered permanently dead. Plus you can buy healing kits for cheap that can stabilize you. Heck, in 5E,(unlike 1E) poison can't kill you, it just reduce your hp a little. It's actually hard to die in 5E. Whereas in 1E, you had to be careful about what you did because death was around every corner.

Spells can now be cast in a single round, which is good, as it increases a magic users survivability, but many spells have been watered down. For example, in 1E, a 30th level wizard could cast a fireball of 30d6. In 5E, it maxes out around 12d6 regardless of your level.

There was no level cap in 1E. Levels in 5E are capped at 20.

In 5E, there is way too much focus and time spent on character background. It may seem relevant, but typically after the 3rd or 4th session, a characters background rarely comes into play unless the DM wants to use it to drive the adventure.

In 5E grappling can only prevent an opponent from moving from point A to point B. They can still attack or cast a spell...so grappling is pretty useless.

Almost all classes in 5E can cast spells, or have spell like abilities, which kind of makes being a magic user less relevant.

What are your thoughts?

The does sound weak. I got out of wizard of the coast stuff when the went to 4E, and converted to Pathfinder. I stopped playing about 2 and a half years ago when the group I was in for 25 years finally broke up due to burnout. I still have a fondness for Dungeon and Dragon, Monsters and Treasures, and Wilderness Adventures (the first 3 book box set).
 
Over the last few decades, D&D has suffered from a decent bit of power creep. The market wanted a greater emphasis on storytelling rather than dungeon delving. While the system is still easily lethal at low levels, with most characters being about two hits away from getting knocked unconscious and starting to bleed out, the game is certainly balanced with players being extraordinary heroes in mind.

At heart, 5e is still primarily a combat simulator system, just like every edition of D&D since Mr. Gygax decided to change Chainmail into a swords & sorcery-style small unit tactics game. That being said, it is certainly less complex than any other edition of the game. I can understand why that wouldn't appeal to old school players, and it's definitely not mechanically intense enough for my standards, but it does an excellent job as baby's first TTRPG. I would strongly recommend using it to introduce your grandchildren into the hobby.

Also, have you tried playing something other than D&D?

Tunnels and Trolls, Bunny's and Burrows,
 
Just thought I would mention that there is going to be a new Battletech computer game coming out this year. Turn based, nice graphics.

Yeah I saw that in the BT forums since I still hang around there every now and then. Megamek is a free tactical game for BT which has been around for ages. Not much graphics to speak of but it does the job.
 
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