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Berkeley moves to replace police with unarmed civilians for traffic stops

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nota bene

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From the Guardian:

The city of Berkeley is moving forward with a first-of-its kind proposal to replace police with unarmed civilians during traffic stops in an effort to curb racial profiling.


After hours of emotional public testimony, council members in the northern California city approved a reform measure that calls for a committee tasked with police reforms. They include removing the police department from responding to calls involving people experiencing homelessness or mental illness and finding ways to eventually cut the police budget by half. The vote also called for the creation of a separate city department to handle the enforcement of parking and traffic laws. California city moves to replace police with unarmed civilians for traffic stops | California | The Guardian

"Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

I hope this will work for Berkeley and that citizens who make those stops will stay safe.
 
nota bene said:
From the Guardian:

The city of Berkeley is moving forward with a first-of-its kind proposal to replace police with unarmed civilians during traffic stops in an effort to curb racial profiling.


After hours of emotional public testimony, council members in the northern California city approved a reform measure that calls for a committee tasked with police reforms. They include removing the police department from responding to calls involving people experiencing homelessness or mental illness and finding ways to eventually cut the police budget by half. The vote also called for the creation of a separate city department to handle the enforcement of parking and traffic laws. California city moves to replace police with unarmed civilians for traffic stops | California | The Guardian

"Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

I hope this will work for Berkeley and that citizens who make those stops will stay safe.
Click to expand...

6 police officers died last year as a result of attacks during traffic stops.
 
nota bene said:
From the Guardian:

The city of Berkeley is moving forward with a first-of-its kind proposal to replace police with unarmed civilians during traffic stops in an effort to curb racial profiling.


After hours of emotional public testimony, council members in the northern California city approved a reform measure that calls for a committee tasked with police reforms. They include removing the police department from responding to calls involving people experiencing homelessness or mental illness and finding ways to eventually cut the police budget by half. The vote also called for the creation of a separate city department to handle the enforcement of parking and traffic laws. California city moves to replace police with unarmed civilians for traffic stops | California | The Guardian

"Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

I hope this will work for Berkeley and that citizens who make those stops will stay safe.
Click to expand...

I would not want to be one of those unarmed guinea pigs.
 
In theory, it sounds good....but I do not see it working or ending very well.
 
nota bene said:
From the Guardian:

The city of Berkeley is moving forward with a first-of-its kind proposal to replace police with unarmed civilians during traffic stops in an effort to curb racial profiling.


After hours of emotional public testimony, council members in the northern California city approved a reform measure that calls for a committee tasked with police reforms. They include removing the police department from responding to calls involving people experiencing homelessness or mental illness and finding ways to eventually cut the police budget by half. The vote also called for the creation of a separate city department to handle the enforcement of parking and traffic laws. California city moves to replace police with unarmed civilians for traffic stops | California | The Guardian

"Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

I hope this will work for Berkeley and that citizens who make those stops will stay safe.
Click to expand...

As do I; but, unfortunately, idealism is usually the first casualty of reality.....lets just hope its not fatal for someone.
 
DiAnna said:
Indeed. This sounds like a prelude to disaster to me.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It depends on how they will be used. If they are simply glorified revenue agents then there may be problems. Actual safety enforcement will be tolerated more so long as it doesn't get stupid.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Not necessarily. It depends on how they will be used. If they are simply glorified revenue agents then there may be problems. Actual safety enforcement will be tolerated more so long as it doesn't get stupid.
Click to expand...

Bull crap.

Cops are already getting shot and assaulted for ticket stops, and you are trying to say that it can work with unarmed civilians?

They will have their asses handed to them.

What cloud did you come down from?
 
PirateMk1 said:
Not necessarily. It depends on how they will be used. If they are simply glorified revenue agents then there may be problems. Actual safety enforcement will be tolerated more so long as it doesn't get stupid.
Click to expand...

If they plan to limit them to simply parking enforcement officers ( Meter maids in old lingo), I dont see an issue.....if they plan to use them for speeding, and other violations, I dont see it ending safely; do you think toothless law enforcement will be able to really stop or detain anyone determined not to be stopped or detained?
 
RetiredUSN said:
Bull crap.

Cops are already getting shot and assaulted for ticket stops, and you are trying to say that it can work with unarmed civilians?

They will have their asses handed to them.

What cloud did you come down from?
Click to expand...

There were exactly 6 officers killed last year during the coarse of a traffic stop all by known wanted felons. As for the future as I stated it depends on how the "force" is utilized. If its just safety related, then they will probably tolerated more than if they are used like they are now as glorified revenue agents. We both dont know for sure what will happen. I think it depends on how they are used. Which is what I said previously.
 
PirateMk1 said:
There were exactly 6 officers killed last year during the coarse of a traffic stop all by known wanted felons. As for the future as I stated it depends on how the "force" is utilized. If its just safety related, then they will probably tolerated more than if they are used like they are now as glorified revenue agents. We both dont know for sure what will happen. I think it depends on how they are used. Which is what I said previously.
Click to expand...

How many assaulted?
 
Bum said:
In theory, it sounds good....but I do not see it working or ending very well.
Click to expand...

Quite a few countries do well with largely unarmed forces. But then.....we're the only developed country with this level of firepower in citizens' hands, by more than country mile.
 
What this really does is end police patrols. When a 911 call of a life death situation comes in there will be no one to answer the call - other than unarmed officers.

The future mass shooters thank the Democratic Party.
 
PirateMk1 said:
6 police officers died last year as a result of attacks during traffic stops.
Click to expand...

In the US as a whole or a specific jurisdiction in the US?

If it is 6 for the entire US it does not seem that bad. More retail clerks die from robberies per year
 
RetiredUSN said:
Bull crap.

Cops are already getting shot and assaulted for ticket stops, and you are trying to say that it can work with unarmed civilians?

They will have their asses handed to them.

What cloud did you come down from?
Click to expand...


If the person stopped is just going to get a ticket for a driving offence probably a lot less.

Think about it. If the person has a kilo of coke in the car and a cop stops them, there is a chance the cop will search the car. So shoot the cop as they come up to the vehicle and then make a run for it. A traffic stop by a person who can only give out traffic tickets is not going to search the car, so shooting them would be a big mistake, just take the ticket and go on your way.

If the person is crazy and gets out of the car, train the people to call armed police to deal with it.
 
nota bene said:
From the Guardian:

The city of Berkeley is moving forward with a first-of-its kind proposal to replace police with unarmed civilians during traffic stops in an effort to curb racial profiling.


After hours of emotional public testimony, council members in the northern California city approved a reform measure that calls for a committee tasked with police reforms. They include removing the police department from responding to calls involving people experiencing homelessness or mental illness and finding ways to eventually cut the police budget by half. The vote also called for the creation of a separate city department to handle the enforcement of parking and traffic laws. California city moves to replace police with unarmed civilians for traffic stops | California | The Guardian

"Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

I hope this will work for Berkeley and that citizens who make those stops will stay safe.
Click to expand...

Absolute disaster in the making! You need to be well trained to walk into dangerous situations, let’s see how many will risk it!
 
Under a conservative estimate, the rate for a felonious killing of an officer during a routine traffic stop was only 1 in every 6.5 million stops, the rate for an assault resulting in serious injury to an officer was only 1 in every 361,111 stops, and the rate for an assault against officers (whether it results in injury or not) was only 1 in every 6,959 stops.
 
No one would have to stop if they aren't police. Just ignore them. Bureaucrats can't order anyone to "pull over" or do anything else they command.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
If the person stopped is just going to get a ticket for a driving offence probably a lot less.

Think about it. If the person has a kilo of coke in the car and a cop stops them, there is a chance the cop will search the car. So shoot the cop as they come up to the vehicle and then make a run for it. A traffic stop by a person who can only give out traffic tickets is not going to search the car, so shooting them would be a big mistake, just take the ticket and go on your way.

If the person is crazy and gets out of the car, train the people to call armed police to deal with it.
Click to expand...

They have no authority to stop anyone.

So if under attack, they are to call for armed police? What armed police? Sitting in the station? What good would that do anyway? "When seconds count, the police would only be half an hour away."

Shouldn't they instead call for an ambulance to take their body to the morgue?
 
If there is one thing you can count on it is that many to most Democrats have no intellectual integrity whatsoever.

How often have they claimed people don't need guns because that's what police are? At the same time arguing to disarm the police.

In urban arrests, traffic stops are by officers on patrol - armed officers - to be able to response to serious crimes. Traffic stops are opportunistic and to help pay that costs. By eliminating armed officers that is eliminating patrol officers. That means if you call for police in an armed situation - expect to wait at least half an hour or longer because there are no armed police on patrol.
 
nota bene said:
From the Guardian:

The city of Berkeley is moving forward with a first-of-its kind proposal to replace police with unarmed civilians during traffic stops in an effort to curb racial profiling.


After hours of emotional public testimony, council members in the northern California city approved a reform measure that calls for a committee tasked with police reforms. They include removing the police department from responding to calls involving people experiencing homelessness or mental illness and finding ways to eventually cut the police budget by half. The vote also called for the creation of a separate city department to handle the enforcement of parking and traffic laws. California city moves to replace police with unarmed civilians for traffic stops | California | The Guardian

"Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

I hope this will work for Berkeley and that citizens who make those stops will stay safe.
Click to expand...

I think its a good experiment. I can see where people are violent in traffic stops because the cops know they have warrants or drugs and dont want to be arrested. So maybe those people will just take the ticket and move on instead. Or maybe people will run more often since they know unarmed people cant do anything about them being in a stolen car. Maybe this will be a waste of money duplicating efforts. Or maybe people will realize how many stupid laws there are in the first place.
 
joko104 said:
They have no authority to stop anyone.

So if under attack, they are to call for armed police? What armed police? Sitting in the station? What good would that do anyway? "When seconds count, the police would only be half an hour away."

Shouldn't they instead call for an ambulance to take their body to the morgue?
Click to expand...

They would be like meter maids or transit security in many places. Have the authority to write tickets, but not much else. Lower pay, lower risk. If someone is threatening them have them trained to get in their vehicle and leave the situation rather than confront them. Then the police can be called on the person who did the threatening and if required arrest that person.

Treat traffic violations like parking violations,. Heck a lot of speeding tickets are given by photo radar now
 
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