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texas Judge...forced to remove pride flag from courtroom.

Lovebug said:
We must serve all or none.
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Hey to me its about what a judge does in his breaks and lunchtime. If he wants to pull out his bible and read some verses to inspire him, let him. Just as long as he is not shoving it into the courtroom.
 
CLAX1911 said:
what law don't I understand? what law says that the judge can put her personal items on display for the entire court to see?
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There probably isn't a statute, but language in the Texas code of judicial conduct, that the commission is interpreting. In any case, she is an employee of the state of Texas, and a member of the Texas Bar. and as an employee and lawyer subject to policies and protocal written in that code .
 
btthegreat said:
And I suggest that the Texas courts make damn sure they do not discriminate in their disciplinary process or rule application between those who wish to express pride their Irish or Mexican heritage, and those that want to express their gay pride.
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If there is a judge who places the Irish or Mexican flag as one of the three ceremonial flags next to the judge for "official" status, or festoons the chamber with "pride" items displaying the judges political-social views, no one should object to their removal.

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Judge Rosie Speedlin Gonzalez, is an out lesbian, meaning someone whose chosen public personae is dependent on people being made aware she has sexual interests in women (although obvious from her 'dyke' looks and tats), and pride in LGBTQ (etc.) social-cultural-sexual views. Secondarlily she festoons the courtroom with celebrations of both gay and Hispanic identity (rainbow eyeglasses, mouse pad, pen, and a sarape).

She is offended because "It felt like they were trying to shame me and bully me into not expressing who I truly am," Gonzalez, who presides over Bexar County Court 13 in San Antonio, said. "It felt like a kick in the gut." And accused her critics of xenophobia among other things.

My advice to her: "You're not being paid to 'express who you truly are', or to make others acknowledge your outed lesbian pride and Hispanic background. Save that "need" (insecurity) for sharing with your sisters and therapists. And show the maturity to acknowledge that the Florio Hernandez, the attorney that filed the complaint, didn't do it because a fear of foreigner Hispanics...unless you claim that you are a foreigner...in which case you shouldn't be a judge in America."

As it is, she has moved her flag to the outside door of her courtroom...still unacceptable. Given her temperament its clear she should resign.
 
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maxparrish said:
If there is a judge who places the Irish or Mexican flag as one of the three ceremonial flags next to the judge for "official" status, or festoons the chamber with "pride" items displaying the judges political-social views, no one should object to their removal.

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Judge Rosie Speedlin Gonzalez, is an out lesbian, meaning someone whose chosen public personae is dependent on people being made aware she has sexual interests in women (although obvious from her 'dyke' looks and tats), and pride in LGBTQ (etc.) social-cultural-sexual views. Secondarlily she festoons the courtroom with celebrations of both gay and Hispanic identity (rainbow eyeglasses, mouse pad, pen, and a sarape).

She is offended because "It felt like they were trying to shame me and bully me into not expressing who I truly am," Gonzalez, who presides over Bexar County Court 13 in San Antonio, said. "It felt like a kick in the gut." And accused her critics of xenophobia among other things.

My advice to her: "You're not being paid to 'express who you truly are', or to make others acknowledge your outed lesbian pride and Hispanic background. Save that "need" (insecurity) for sharing with your sisters and therapists. And show the maturity to acknowledge that the Florio Hernandez, the attorney that filed the complaint, didn't do it because a fear of foreigners...unless you claim that you are a foreigner...in which case you shouldn't be a judge in America."

As it is, she has moved her flag to the outside door of her courtroom...still unacceptable. Given her temperament its clear she should resign.
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"And I suggest that the Texas courts make damn sure they do not discriminate in their disciplinary process or rule application between those who wish to express pride their Irish or Mexican heritage, and those that want to express their gay pride"

Your homophobic and stereotypic characterizations in the above post did not respond to the post you actually quoted, the subject of which was the Texas courts ( more specifically to the guidelines that they may be arbitrarily enforcing) and their potentially discriminatory behavior and unequal treatment of this judge.
 
btthegreat said:
"And I suggest that the Texas courts make damn sure they do not discriminate in their disciplinary process or rule application between those who wish to express pride their Irish or Mexican heritage, and those that want to express their gay pride"

Your homophobic and stereotypic characterizations in the above post did not respond to the post you actually quoted, the subject of which was the Texas courts ( more specifically to the guidelines that they may be arbitrarily enforcing) and their potentially discriminatory behavior and unequal treatment of this judge.
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a) what you call homophobic is also known as "plain spoken, unsparing, and self-evident". If casts her in a light that feels uncomfortable, perhaps you ought to check your own premises.

b) there is no proof of any arbitrary enforcement, other than her vague allusion to unknown and unverified uses of courtrooms comparable to her transgressions. All she do is need point out which judge uses an Irish flag as one of the three official ceremonial flags next to his/her bench. Until she does, one must presume that she is embellishing or making excuses.

c) she is unusually immature and intellectually challenged on this issue of principle, and is obviously fighting it by moving her "who I am" sex flag to the foyer … resisting cleaning up her act.

I don't believe in playing games with government employees; you either fully comply or you are fired. As she won't comply, and still believes its her duty and right to express who she is in her "impartial" judicial duties, and won't stop offending on public property she is unsuited and should be pushed out.
 
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btthegreat said:
There probably isn't a statute, but language in the Texas code of judicial conduct, that the commission is interpreting. In any case, she is an employee of the state of Texas, and a member of the Texas Bar. and as an employee and lawyer subject to policies and protocal written in that code .
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I'm not sure if there is no law specifically addressing this or not but a judge is supposed to leave their personal opinions in the chambers not on the bench.
 
There's another judge in the same courthouse who displays an irish flag. This is discriminatory because it is not equally applying the law. Either every judge gets to display their preferred symbols, or no judge gets to. Don't single out specific symbols to ban.
 
My thought is this...the rainbow flag is designed to simply represent peace, or in this case, the LGBTQ community. Neither the community or the peace aspect of the flag involves an anti-straight agenda. So, to call this flag divisive and to have it banned from the courtroom is a bit stupid to me; the person with the problem has a problem with the LGBTQ community and appears to be the one who is actively engaged in hate and creating a divide.
 
maxparrish said:
a) what you call homophobic is also known as "plain spoken, unsparing, and self-evident". If casts her in a light that feels uncomfortable, perhaps you ought to check your own premises.

b) there is no proof of any arbitrary enforcement, other than her vague allusion to unknown and unverified uses of courtrooms comparable to her transgressions. All she do is need point out which judge uses an Irish flag as one of the three official ceremonial flags next to his/her bench. Until she does, one must presume that she is embellishing or making excuses.

c) she is unusually immature and intellectually challenged on this issue of principle, and is obviously fighting it by moving her "who I am" sex flag to the foyer … resisting cleaning up her act.

I don't believe in playing games with government employees; you either fully comply or you are fired. As she won't comply, and still believes its her duty and right to express who she is in her "impartial" judicial duties, and won't stop offending on public property she is unsuited and should be pushed out.
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I know when a post is dancing in in homophobic stereotypes and I know it is not the same as being 'plain spoken' or 'self evident'. The fact that the style is 'plain spoken', does not improve on the quality of the content.

While I grant there is no independent evidence of the claims she makes by her or her lawyer presented in the link. My line of reasoning presumes the facts presented by both sides and that assumption leaves me torn. The fact that nobody is quoted as contesting those facts can just as readily suggest that nobody can dare contest them. Lack of supporting detail, just means there is a lack of supporting detail and we would both be smarter not to 'assume more than the fact it is missing.

I know that you have provided no facts to suggest that she has not fully complied with the commission's ruling by moving it outside the courtroom and you can't until the language of the ruling is made public and you read the arguments of both parties contesting her interpretation, The fact you don't like her pride flag outside the courtroom either, or that others do not where she has put it, is not evidence of anything other than what you want that ruling to be.
 
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I think she should be able to keep her flag, but then can't complain if someone else brings in a 'white pride' flag or some other ridiculous thing that has no business in a court room--- same as her own personal identity politics flag.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Screeching about Trump in a thread that has nothing to do with Donald Trump is typically pointless screeching.

Sorry control your rage and I won't make fun of you.
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:) :)
 
CLAX1911 said:
what law don't I understand? what law says that the judge can put her personal items on display for the entire court to see?
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This is easy. A judge by ethics is supposed to remain neutral having any kind of symbols in the court room is a display that the judge can't be neutral.
Given this judges comments it sets up a recuse motion as she has proven that she cannot be neutral in her rulings on these issues.

like facts the law doesn't care about your feelings on a subject.
 
ludin said:
This is easy. A judge by ethics is supposed to remain neutral having any kind of symbols in the court room is a display that the judge can't be neutral.
Given this judges comments it sets up a recuse motion as she has proven that she cannot be neutral in her rulings on these issues.

like facts the law doesn't care about your feelings on a subject.
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I agree, the judge must be impartial when on the bench. Declaring loyalty with anything outside of the Constitution or United States state or municipality while at the bench goes against impartiality.

I think you misunderstood my post I don't think the judge should present the rainbow flag in the court room.
 
btthegreat said:
I know when a post is dancing in in homophobic stereotypes and I know it is not the same as being 'plain spoken' or 'self evident'. The fact that the style is 'plain spoken', does not improve on the quality of the content.

While I grant there is no independent evidence of the claims she makes by her or her lawyer presented in the link. My line of reasoning presumes the facts presented by both sides and that assumption leaves me torn. The fact that nobody is quoted as contesting those facts can just as readily suggest that nobody can dare contest them. Lack of supporting detail, just means there is a lack of supporting detail and we would both be smarter not to 'assume more than the fact it is missing.

I know that you have provided no facts to suggest that she has not fully complied with the commission's ruling by moving it outside the courtroom and you can't until the language of the ruling is made public and you read the arguments of both parties contesting her interpretation, The fact you don't like her pride flag outside the courtroom either, or that others do not where she has put it, is not evidence of anything other than what you want that ruling to be.
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First, some people are living stereotypes, recognizing that does not make it less so. Moreover, being a stereotype is not inherently right or wrong, but if it bothers them they ought to act atypically. If the judge does not wish to live the stereotype of being "out", exhibiting a personae depends on messageing observers she is a masculine appearing lesbian with need to make everyone know "who she is" then she can do so with a decent hairstyle and traditional decorum. However, tribal "pride" mindsets are indicative of serious insecurity in one's self image, a identity "flags" are passive aggressive expressions against "normal" people.

Second, you can't prove a negative. Others don't have to prove a judicial black swan does not exist in Texas, she has to provide evidence of one beyond vague allusions. Till then her absence of evidence is not evidence...something a judge should know.

Third, you are correct. It is possible she is in technical compliance, which may be a loophole she is using. However, the fact is her attitude suggests she is determined to use public administrative buildings as her venue to promote personal political-social views means she ought to be sacked.
 
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Gay people flying the flag asking equal rights is silly too...
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Now that you mention it, it is kind of silly to demand something you already have. Maybe even insanity.
 
maxparrish said:
First, some people are living stereotypes, recognizing that does not make it less so. Moreover, being a stereotype is not inherently right or wrong, but if it bothers them they ought to act atypically. If the judge does not wish to live the stereotype of being "out", exhibiting a personae depends on messageing observers she is a masculine appearing lesbian with need to make everyone know "who she is" then she can do so with a decent hairstyle and traditional decorum. However, tribal "pride" mindsets are indicative of serious insecurity in one's self image, a identity "flags" are passive aggressive expressions against "normal" people.

Second, you can't prove a negative. Others don't have to prove a judicial black swan does not exist in Texas, she has to provide evidence of one beyond vague allusions. Till then her absence of evidence is not evidence...something a judge should know.

Third, you are correct. It is possible she is in technical compliance, which may be a loophole she is using. However, the fact is her attitude suggests she is determined to use public administrative buildings as her venue to promote personal political-social views means she ought to be sacked.
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I understand the needing to openly Express your sexual orientation, I think just about every gay lesbian transgender or bisexual person understands that, just like someone who discovered a new faith or discovered they didn't have to be the same religion as their parents.

It's an existential thing it's a catharsis, that being said I think it doesn't belong in the courtroom.
 
Court Jester said:
I think she should be able to keep her flag, but then can't complain if someone else brings in a 'white pride' flag or some other ridiculous thing that has no business in a court room--- same as her own personal identity politics flag.
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I respect that what you're expressing is fair, I think it's an appropriate in a courtroom. The courtroom is there to decide things in a most unbiased way possible and if it gets cluttered up with what essentially amounts to bumper stickers it loses that quality of everyone being equal.
 
Trypt said:
Now that you mention it, it is kind of silly to demand something you already have. Maybe even insanity.
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LGBT people lack many rights that heterosexuals enjoy. They can be fired for getting married, denied an apartment and even denied equal service in a business sin many states.
 
Lisa said:
LGBT people lack many rights that heterosexuals enjoy. They can be fired for getting married, denied an apartment and even denied equal service in a business sin many states.
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Which rights?

Where can you be fired for being gay? Where can you be denied equal service? Where are these many States?
 
Lisa said:
LGBT people lack many rights that heterosexuals enjoy. They can be fired for getting married, denied an apartment and even denied equal service in a business sin many states.
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You're forgetting that such claims apply to everyone, though I don't think I've seen anyone simply be fired for getting married.
 
Oborosen said:
You're forgetting that such claims apply to everyone, though I don't think I've seen anyone simply be fired for getting married.
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Heterosexuals cant be denied service or denied an apartment because of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Ken Bencomo had taught English at St. Lucy's Priory High School in Glendora, Calif., for 17 years until he was fired for getting married to his longtime partner. The Catholic school discovered his husband when they were photographed in a local newspaper article about marriage equality. Students have protested and appealed to the school board without any success in getting their teacher reinstated.
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Lisa said:
Heterosexuals cant be denied service or denied an apartment because of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
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This discussion wasn't about heterosexuals.

I'm not surprised it's a Catholic organization that did as such.
 
Lisa said:
Heterosexuals cant be denied service or denied an apartment because of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
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The 1964 Civil Rights act does not mention heterosexuals.
 
Lisa said:
LGBT people lack many rights that heterosexuals enjoy. They can be fired for getting married, denied an apartment and even denied equal service in a business sin many states.
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There are no protections heterosexual people that get married from being fired, heterosexuals can be denied an apartment or service at a business.
 
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