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"Forbidden Parenting;" Child Welfare to the Extreme?

Captain Adverse

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
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This is a "John Stossel" commentary on an incident where a mother had been arrested and charged with "Willful Abandonment of a Child," a crime according to the story carrying up to a ten year prison sentence.



Once upon a time, back when I was a child ( ;) ), when you weren't in school, or at home eating, studying, sleeping, you were OUT playing.

Seldom by yourself unless you were a "new kid." But usually in groups.

Moreover, the group (herd) dynamic protected you. If someone walked up that you didn't know, the group would react.

In my experience we'd either tell the person to go away, threaten to (or actually) throw rocks, or all run away and yell.

But being approached by a stranger was rare. People just didn't come up to bunches of kids they didn't know. Kid's aren't stupid (at least it seemed so back then). We didn't want to talk to strangers unless they were new kids around our own ages.

If I recall correctly, after the Reagan era "Stranger Danger" push, it was found that the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse issues turned out to be family and trusted adult causes. Rarely strangers at all.

Somehow, thanks to the relatively rare cases of actual child abduction which got so much notoriety, suddenly it became important to stifle kids in protective cocoons.

I appreciate being concerned about children's safety. But being forced to stifle them out of an unrealistic fear of a stranger stealing them, or coddling them out of fear that you yourself will face punishment for child abandonment and/or disciplining them "too harshly?" I think it's become a major problem affecting mental health and social growth.

It seems to me that as this trend became the norm it formed the roots of our hypersensitive, over-emotional, entitled youth of today.

What is your opinion? Is it such a concern that we have to threaten parent's with JAIL if they dare let their kids BE kids? How should we deal with this issue?

EDIT: Here's comedian Russell Peters joking about child discipline:

 
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Captain Adverse said:
This is a "John Stossel" commentary on an incident where a mother had been arrested and charged with "Willful Abandonment of a Child," a crime according to the story carrying up to a ten year prison sentence.



Once upon a time, back when I was a child ( ;) ), when you weren't in school, or at home eating, studying, sleeping, you were OUT playing.

Seldom by yourself unless you were a "new kid." But usually in groups.

Moreover, the group (herd) dynamic protected you. If someone walked up that you didn't know, the group would react.

In my experience we'd either tell the person to go away, threaten to (or actually) throw rocks, or all run away and yell.

But being approached by a stranger was rare. People just didn't come up to bunches of kids they didn't know. Kid's aren't stupid (at least it seemed so back then). We didn't want to talk to strangers unless they were new kids around our own ages.

If I recall correctly, after the Reagan era "Stranger Danger" push, it was found that the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse issues turned out to be family and trusted adult causes. Rarely strangers at all.

Somehow, thanks to the relatively rare cases of actual child abduction which got so much notoriety, suddenly it became important to stifle kids in protective cocoons.

I appreciate being concerned about children's safety. But being forced to stifle them out of an unrealistic fear of a stranger stealing them, or coddling them out of fear that you yourself will face punishment for child abandonment and/or disciplining them "too harshly?" I think it's become a major problem affecting mental health and social growth.

It seems to me that as this trend became the norm it formed the roots of our hypersensitive, over-emotional, entitled youth of today.

What is your opinion? How should we deal with this issue?
Click to expand...


I didn't know John Stossel was still alive!!! There is little to no evidence to suggest that kids today are "too protected." This is just asinine boomer talk when they don't like new methods their kids impose on their own kids. And would rather have us do things their way.

One could argue that kids today are exposed to a lot more without their parents knowing than you guys ever were. Every kid in school curses, every kid in school is discovering their own sexuality, and every kid in school can find the worst the internet has to offer within a few swipes. My catholic grandparents would freak out about some of the meme jokes kids are sending around their schools today.
 
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NeverTrump said:
One could argue that kids today are exposed to a lot more without their parents knowing than you guys ever were. Every kid in school curses, every kid in school is discovering their own sexuality, and every kid in school can find the worst the internet has to offer within a few swipes. My catholic grandparents would freak out about some of the meme jokes kids are sending around their schools today.
Click to expand...

Aside from the fact the internet and communications have improved "access," why would you think kids were "stupid" back before that access?

Let me tell you, kids cursed, argued with parents, discovered their own "sexuality."

I will agree that access to faster communication sources opens up a lot of issues...but IMHO, the fact kids have been kept in the house and forced to focus on such communication sources rather than going OUT and face2face people in the real world is more the problem.
 
Captain Adverse said:
This is a "John Stossel" commentary on an incident where a mother had been arrested and charged with "Willful Abandonment of a Child," a crime according to the story carrying up to a ten year prison sentence.



Once upon a time, back when I was a child ( ;) ), when you weren't in school, or at home eating, studying, sleeping, you were OUT playing.

Seldom by yourself unless you were a "new kid." But usually in groups.

Moreover, the group (herd) dynamic protected you. If someone walked up that you didn't know, the group would react.

In my experience we'd either tell the person to go away, threaten to (or actually) throw rocks, or all run away and yell.

But being approached by a stranger was rare. People just didn't come up to bunches of kids they didn't know. Kid's aren't stupid (at least it seemed so back then). We didn't want to talk to strangers unless they were new kids around our own ages.

If I recall correctly, after the Reagan era "Stranger Danger" push, it was found that the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse issues turned out to be family and trusted adult causes. Rarely strangers at all.

Somehow, thanks to the relatively rare cases of actual child abduction which got so much notoriety, suddenly it became important to stifle kids in protective cocoons.

I appreciate being concerned about children's safety. But being forced to stifle them out of an unrealistic fear of a stranger stealing them, or coddling them out of fear that you yourself will face punishment for child abandonment and/or disciplining them "too harshly?" I think it's become a major problem affecting mental health and social growth.

It seems to me that as this trend became the norm it formed the roots of our hypersensitive, over-emotional, entitled youth of today.

What is your opinion? Is it such a concern that we have to threaten parent's with JAIL if they dare let their kids BE kids? How should we deal with this issue?
Click to expand...


Delt with something similar to this ourselves. Difference was money in our case. We have plenty and made it plain we would use it to destroy everyone involved regardless how tangential or inconsequential they were. Lots of buried skeletons in the government that they didn't want unearthed. Our attorneys made out like bandits, but it was the county and city who paid them, and us to make us "go away". The county and city had to tighten their belt for couple of years. All because the school wasn't getting their attendance money.

You know the term seeing red? There's a basis of truth for it.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Aside from the fact the internet and communications have improved "access," why would you think kids were "stupid" back before that access?

Let me tell you, kids cursed, argued with parents, discovered their own "sexuality."

I will agree that access to faster communication sources opens up a lot of issues...but IMHO, the fact kids have been kept in the house and forced to focus on such communication sources rather than going OUT and face2face people in the real world is more the problem.
Click to expand...

I think the internet in general and not parents have kept kids from going outside. I grew up just when the internet came out and I felt no need to go outside or join social clubs despite my parents insisting that I should. Now, 15-20 years later, I still have trouble making friends and joining social circles. We had more choice than you guys had and we found more common people online for better or for worse.

Kids were more ignorant back then. You had to discover things just by thinking of them. I grew up on the end of the era, but I still wished I had that access in my pocket. Today, kids can simply google stupid stuff to try and they do it, then they get an algorithm that tells them the next thing to try. Some of that has a viral effect in which kids want to go viral from doing things because they want to be the next Justin Bieber. Whether it'd be cute dances on tiktok or eating tide pods. Most of those videos IMO ARE INDEED shot outside. Almost all of that stuff is done with little to no parental support, at least that's what it is portrayed to be. I know at least some kids who have gone viral had big teams and family support behind their ideas.

Kids still play sports, kids still play football, they still skateboard, they still go camping, they still play soccer!! There is no downturn in any of these activities. I remember taking my gameboy with me to all these events and more. The difference is kids today, just take their phones and their phones may have a lot more access to information, but they still just trade colorful pictures with each other. Even if they sometimes have a deeper darker meaning to them.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Once upon a time, back when I was a child ( ;) ), when you weren't in school, or at home eating, studying, sleeping, you were OUT playing.

Seldom by yourself unless you were a "new kid." But usually in groups.

Moreover, the group (herd) dynamic protected you. If someone walked up that you didn't know, the group would react.

In my experience we'd either tell the person to go away, threaten to (or actually) throw rocks, or all run away and yell.

But being approached by a stranger was rare. People just didn't come up to bunches of kids they didn't know. Kid's aren't stupid (at least it seemed so back then). We didn't want to talk to strangers unless they were new kids around our own ages.
Click to expand...

It was the same when I was a kid. In the summer and on weekends starting when I was around 6 or 7 years old, I was out after breakfast, would check in for lunch and wouldn't go back home until supper time. It was basically the same for all the kids I grew up with, including my sister who was 2 years younger than me. The only rules were not to go too far away (stay within a mile of the house) and don't ride our bikes on the busy streets. I don't know how it is today, but when we were out playing we were never alone. If there weren't any friends around to play with, that was no fun, so we'd just stay at home.

What happened to that woman in the video really saddens me. Part of freedom is being able to decide how to raise your kids and being able to choose the amount of trust and responsibility to give them... and allowing them to go to a park and play unsupervised should be up to them, not the state.

.
 
NeverTrump said:
Kids were more ignorant back then. You had to discover things just by thinking of them.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me; more "ignorant?"

I think you mean less easily informed.

Perhaps so, but we had to make an effort to learn about things. Most especially things we were interested in. That means thanks to such effort we actually LEARNED about it...RETAINED this information.

Today? IMO kids aren't "learning" anything, because they do not see a need. All they have to do is hit a few spots on the latest handheld gadget and "instant info."

They don't retain it, because they don't think they have to. Which means they haven't "learned it" at all.

Imagine one day the Interweb collapses, and instant info is no longer available at the touch of their fingertips? I wonder how much of that "learning" they will have retained.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Are you kidding me; more "ignorant?"

I think you mean less easily informed.

Perhaps so, but we had to make an effort to learn about things. Most especially things we were interested in. That means thanks to such effort we actually LEARNED about it...RETAINED this information.

Today? IMO kids aren't "learning" anything, because they do not see a need. All they have to do is hit a few spots on the latest handheld gadget and "instant info."

They don't retain it, because the don't think they have to. Which means they haven't "learned it" at all.

Imagine one day the Interweb collapses, and instant info is no longer available at the touch of their fingertips? I wonder how much of that "learning" they will have retained.
Click to expand...

That's what ignorant means!!!! You only had a snapshot of things in a very rigid and probably more religious tradition. Kids have more viewpoints in which to gain information and they have more avenues of which to make up their own minds. They have more freedom to learn stuff they want to learn about. They are more passionate about gun violence, racial issues, sexuality, and climate change than even I was at that age. They switched the norm of cool meaning frat guy/plastic bimbo cheerleader to cool nerd guy/chick in just one generation because they were sick of the elite status those symbols got. They are making a great change in this country just by expressing their opinions and being motivated. Plus knowing that they have every opportunity to change the system since that's what their parents (your generation) told them every day for their entire lives. Just don't be so shocked when they make up their own minds and it doesn't fit your definition of "play time" or "learning."

I'm a trekkie and I see this all the time in Star Trek fandom. It's a big cultural rift right now. Most of the new people who discovered the new ST shows love them. The OG trekkies were upset with the new shows for various things, some cultural, some sexism, some racial, some creative decisions. A lot of their critiques didn't make sense when you held up the old trek shows and analyzed it episode by episode. You'd find that those shows had the same issues the OG fans were complaining that the new shows had. Fans are still finding new stuff that the OG fans complained about that the old shows had! It's just different. Who were the ones usually analyzing each and every episode and then going back and watching the old shows? You got it! The young fans are always the one to point out that Star Trek had always been about utopia in space with progressive ideas!

If you don't think kids are learning because of the internet, you have a sick sense of ageism going on. Most of the people I know who are boomers don't know the first thing about detecting fake websites and they wouldn't be able to dial their moms number if it wasn't saved in their phones. You can bet that their kid would know how to back up a copy of all their phone numbers, convert it into a text document and print it out in seconds.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Aside from the fact the internet and communications have improved "access," why would you think kids were "stupid" back before that access?

Let me tell you, kids cursed, argued with parents, discovered their own "sexuality."

I will agree that access to faster communication sources opens up a lot of issues...but IMHO, the fact kids have been kept in the house and forced to focus on such communication sources rather than going OUT and face2face people in the real world is more the problem.
Click to expand...

It's interesting to see the more protective aspect to parenting than what I remember from my youth. I was allowed to play outside, but had to be home by a certain time and obviously not get into any trouble. If I violated that rule, then I would be grounded; pretty straightforward. Mind you, I grew up in 80's NYC, so there was a lot going on in terms of crime. The fear of child abduction was also pretty high; I remember my parents always warning me about not getting into cars or vans if someone asked me to. Despite that though, I'm glad my parents allowed me the freedom to learn to sort myself out socially in the outside world. I hold the same view for my daughter, and as such let her walk to her friend's house and hang out locally. Technology has made it easy for kids to prefer staying indoors and socializing through devices, but interacting with people in person is its own skill, and I think some of the younger generations are not as used to that as older ones are.
 
Captain Adverse said:
This is a "John Stossel" commentary on an incident where a mother had been arrested and charged with "Willful Abandonment of a Child," a crime according to the story carrying up to a ten year prison sentence.



Once upon a time, back when I was a child ( ;) ), when you weren't in school, or at home eating, studying, sleeping, you were OUT playing.

Seldom by yourself unless you were a "new kid." But usually in groups.

Moreover, the group (herd) dynamic protected you. If someone walked up that you didn't know, the group would react.

In my experience we'd either tell the person to go away, threaten to (or actually) throw rocks, or all run away and yell.

But being approached by a stranger was rare. People just didn't come up to bunches of kids they didn't know. Kid's aren't stupid (at least it seemed so back then). We didn't want to talk to strangers unless they were new kids around our own ages.

If I recall correctly, after the Reagan era "Stranger Danger" push, it was found that the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse issues turned out to be family and trusted adult causes. Rarely strangers at all.

Somehow, thanks to the relatively rare cases of actual child abduction which got so much notoriety, suddenly it became important to stifle kids in protective cocoons.

I appreciate being concerned about children's safety. But being forced to stifle them out of an unrealistic fear of a stranger stealing them, or coddling them out of fear that you yourself will face punishment for child abandonment and/or disciplining them "too harshly?" I think it's become a major problem affecting mental health and social growth.

It seems to me that as this trend became the norm it formed the roots of our hypersensitive, over-emotional, entitled youth of today.

What is your opinion? Is it such a concern that we have to threaten parent's with JAIL if they dare let their kids BE kids? How should we deal with this issue?

EDIT: Here's comedian Russell Peters joking about child discipline:

Click to expand...


So the kid was not even hurt? Some other parent called the police just because she was unsupervised? Is this correct?
 
ElChupacabra said:
It's interesting to see the more protective aspect to parenting than what I remember from my youth. I was allowed to play outside, but had to be home by a certain time and obviously not get into any trouble. If I violated that rule, then I would be grounded; pretty straightforward. Mind you, I grew up in 80's NYC, so there was a lot going on in terms of crime. The fear of child abduction was also pretty high; I remember my parents always warning me about not getting into cars or vans if someone asked me to. Despite that though, I'm glad my parents allowed me the freedom to learn to sort myself out socially in the outside world. I hold the same view for my daughter, and as such let her walk to her friend's house and hang out locally. Technology has made it easy for kids to prefer staying indoors and socializing through devices, but interacting with people in person is its own skill, and I think some of the younger generations are not as used to that as older ones are.
Click to expand...

It is refreshing here... kids run around playing all over the place without parents hovering around them... they are just kids outside having fun, going to the park, the beach, up to the store to get milk for mom, to and from school, etc.
 
Captain Adverse said:
This is a "John Stossel" commentary on an incident where a mother had been arrested and charged with "Willful Abandonment of a Child," a crime according to the story carrying up to a ten year prison sentence.



Once upon a time, back when I was a child ( ;) ), when you weren't in school, or at home eating, studying, sleeping, you were OUT playing.

Seldom by yourself unless you were a "new kid." But usually in groups.

Moreover, the group (herd) dynamic protected you. If someone walked up that you didn't know, the group would react.

In my experience we'd either tell the person to go away, threaten to (or actually) throw rocks, or all run away and yell.

But being approached by a stranger was rare. People just didn't come up to bunches of kids they didn't know. Kid's aren't stupid (at least it seemed so back then). We didn't want to talk to strangers unless they were new kids around our own ages.

If I recall correctly, after the Reagan era "Stranger Danger" push, it was found that the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse issues turned out to be family and trusted adult causes. Rarely strangers at all.

Somehow, thanks to the relatively rare cases of actual child abduction which got so much notoriety, suddenly it became important to stifle kids in protective cocoons.

I appreciate being concerned about children's safety. But being forced to stifle them out of an unrealistic fear of a stranger stealing them, or coddling them out of fear that you yourself will face punishment for child abandonment and/or disciplining them "too harshly?" I think it's become a major problem affecting mental health and social growth.

It seems to me that as this trend became the norm it formed the roots of our hypersensitive, over-emotional, entitled youth of today.

What is your opinion? Is it such a concern that we have to threaten parent's with JAIL if they dare let their kids BE kids? How should we deal with this issue?

EDIT: Here's comedian Russell Peters joking about child discipline:

Click to expand...


Well being alone was dangerous, obviously. Just think for a moment, strangers could noticed she was alone and simply taken her away. Imagine if that had happened.
 
NeverTrump said:
That's what ignorant means!!!! You only had a snapshot of things in a very rigid and probably more religious tradition. Kids have more viewpoints in which to gain information and they have more avenues of which to make up their own minds. They have more freedom to learn stuff they want to learn about. They are more passionate about gun violence, racial issues, sexuality, and climate change than even I was at that age. They switched the norm of cool meaning frat guy/plastic bimbo cheerleader to cool nerd guy/chick in just one generation because they were sick of the elite status those symbols got. They are making a great change in this country just by expressing their opinions and being motivated. Plus knowing that they have every opportunity to change the system since that's what their parents (your generation) told them every day for their entire lives. Just don't be so shocked when they make up their own minds and it doesn't fit your definition of "play time" or "learning."

I'm a trekkie and I see this all the time in Star Trek fandom. It's a big cultural rift right now. Most of the new people who discovered the new ST shows love them. The OG trekkies were upset with the new shows for various things, some cultural, some sexism, some racial, some creative decisions. A lot of their critiques didn't make sense when you held up the old trek shows and analyzed it episode by episode. You'd find that those shows had the same issues the OG fans were complaining that the new shows had. Fans are still finding new stuff that the OG fans complained about that the old shows had! It's just different. Who were the ones usually analyzing each and every episode and then going back and watching the old shows? You got it! The young fans are always the one to point out that Star Trek had always been about utopia in space with progressive ideas!

If you don't think kids are learning because of the internet, you have a sick sense of ageism going on. Most of the people I know who are boomers don't know the first thing about detecting fake websites and they wouldn't be able to dial their moms number if it wasn't saved in their phones. You can bet that their kid would know how to back up a copy of all their phone numbers, convert it into a text document and print it out in seconds.
Click to expand...

I think you might be a bit off on what constitutes the cool kids. At least when it comes to the majority of the time.

It's still the same as it was back when I was a kid. The cool kids in my kids school and my friends kids school are the same types of kids. Jocks and cheerleader types. My buddy's kid who is the QB for his highschool team still is the most popular kid in class. The cheerleaders are still being voted in as the prom queen.
The same type of kids who were not cool back in my day are still the uncool kids now. They are still the ones not getting invited to parties and being left out.

I see very little difference.

And being in the military I have been stationed in quite a few different parts of the country so a rather wide but of examples to vase this on. Everything from Midwestern areas to areas like Seattle and lots in between. As well as public schools to private.
 
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