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If I were Impeaching or Indicting Trump...

lemmiwinx said:
Bill Clinton lied under oath thus his impeachable crime.
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Trump lied under oath to Mueller. So I take it you believe this an impeachable offense? I appreciate that contribution. (This is not a discussion of Clinton's impeachment. You may notice he's not the president. )
 
NWRatCon said:
Trump lied under oath to Mueller. So I take it you believe this an impeachable offense? I appreciate that contribution. (This is not a discussion of Clinton's impeachment. You may notice he's not the president. )
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Mueller testified before the Democrat House and could barely put two sentient thoughts together.
 
lemmiwinx said:
Mueller testified before the Democrat House and could barely put two sentient thoughts together.
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That, my friend, is deflection. Does that mean you can't answer the respectful question, or that you're only interested in propagating partisan blather? Last chance.
 
lemmiwinx said:
Bill Clinton lied under oath thus his impeachable crime.
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So why hasn't trump testified under oath, or mulvaney, or bolton, or pompeo, or barr, or rudy, or tillerman just to name a few?

You know why as well as the rest of the GOP. Trump under oath, he would end up putting himself out of office for all the lying he would do. As long as trump never goes under oath the right can keep claiming he hasn't done anything to be impeached. Not accurate but at least it's an excuse.
 
NWRatCon said:
That, my friend, is deflection. Does that mean you can't answer the respectful question, or that you're only interested in propagating partisan blather? Last chance.
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I only report what I see. Mueller didn't want to be there because he had nothing to testify about.
 
bongsaway said:
So why hasn't trump testified under oath, or mulvaney, or bolton, or pompeo, or barr, or rudy, or tillerman just to name a few?

You know why as well as the rest of the GOP. Trump under oath, he would end up putting himself out of office for all the lying he would do. As long as trump never goes under oath the right can keep claiming he hasn't done anything to be impeached. Not accurate but at least it's an excuse.
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Trump under oath would blow the CIA's minds trying to keep up with him. It's gong to be fun seeing Brennan and Clapper frog marched out of their homes at 3am.
 
lemmiwinx said:
I only report what I see. Mueller didn't want to be there because he had nothing to testify about.
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And that is relevant to the thread, how? You only "see" what is relevant to your partisan talking points. Done now.
 
lemmiwinx said:
Trump under oath would blow the CIA's minds trying to keep up with him. It's gong to be fun seeing Brennan and Clapper frog marched out of their homes at 3am.
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Yes.
...
just any second now
...
any moment now
...
your conspiracy theories will be shown to be true
...
any second now Trump_DoJ will start acting on your CTs...
...the Clintons will be locked up for Uranium One, Seth Rich, Pizzagate, and Vince Foster...
...any second now the Senate will open an investigation in the Bidens...
...here in just a moment...
..you'll see...
...
Then you'll all be sorry for calling these provable assertions [ which have literal mountain ranges of evidence *PROOF* ] wacked-out conspiracy theories only palatable to the exceptionally credulous.
Trump_DoJ is secretly working on all of these conspiracy theories.
...
Just any second now the indictments will start flowing.
...
...yep...
...any second now...
...
...just you wait...
 
lemmiwinx said:
Mueller testified before the Democrat House and could barely put two sentient thoughts together.
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fwiw, beings are sentient when they have thoughts
thoughts can be coherent though
 
When I began this thread I made the following comment: Even Trump supporters can chime in, as long as they are respectful and willing to address the facts. I appreciate that, even though we disagree on interpretation, Mike2810 was willing to do that. I was really hoping that this thread would not devolve, as all similar threads on the impeachment topic have, into a partisan-talking-point delivery mechanism. In order to wrest the thread back onto point, I'm going to reiterate a couple of points, with a bit of development:
NWRatCon said:
If I were doing the impeachment, I would focus on broad categories:

I. Bribery
II. Abuse of Office
III. Obstruction of Congress
IV. Obstruction of Justice

There are numerous specific "counts" that would fall within each...
Using this approach simplifies that process, and includes far more than the existing Articles. These are concepts, rather than necessarily the specifics I would address.
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That is the template I was hoping others might use to approach the subject. Those were mostly undeveloped thoughts, musings if you will, on the topic. At least one poster (mostly inadvertently) agreed that "lying under oath" is a legitimate basis for impeachment. So, maybe that is a better place to start: What are legitimate grounds for impeachment?

1) Treason.
2) Bribery.
3) Other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
A. Lying under oath
B. Emoluments violations
C. Witness tampering
D. Obstruction of justice
E. ?

That should be a non-partisan endeavor. Let's talk about what are non-partisan, legitimate bases for impeachment. Maybe we can reach consensus. We can discuss later whether facts have been adduced to demonstrate them. We can also discuss standards and burdens of proof.
 
lemmiwinx said:
Trump under oath would blow the CIA's minds trying to keep up with him. It's gong to be fun seeing Brennan and Clapper frog marched out of their homes at 3am.
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And when is this going to happen?
 
bongsaway said:
And when is this going to happen?
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Probably just in my dreams but that's what happens to people who work or used to work for Trump (Paul Manafort, Roger Stone) if they lie to the FBI or have outstanding IRS tax issues. You know process crimes and such. I don't know if a failed coup attempt merits Brennan and Clapper being frog marched out.
 
lemmiwinx said:
Probably just in my dreams but that's what happens to people who work or used to work for Trump (Paul Manafort, Roger Stone) if they lie to the FBI or have outstanding IRS tax issues. You know process crimes and such. I don't know if a failed coup attempt merits Brennan and Clapper being frog marched out.
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Just curious, why do you guys use the term coup when its not? I think the term you guys are looking for is revolution.
 
bongsaway said:
Just curious, why do you guys use the term coup when its not? I think the term you guys are looking for is revolution.
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A coup is when you depose the leader from within. While Brennan and Clapper are officially retired CIA and DNI I still consider it a coup. And they were both CNN paid contributors before they lawyered up big surprise.
 
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lemmiwinx said:
A coup is when you depose the leader from within. While Brennan and Clapper are officially retired CIA and DNI I still consider it a coup. And they were both CNN paid contributors before they lawyered up big surprise.
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So that is your definition of a coup.

Here's another I would consider a bit more accurate.

definition of coup - Google Search
 
lemmiwinx said:
I don't think a coup has to be violent if that's what's keeping you from calling it a coup against Trump.
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So you don't think sums it up nicely. That is so typical of a trump supporter. Dismiss what the dictionary says and replace it with I don't think.

Alternative facts to the rescue.
 
bongsaway said:
So you don't think sums it up nicely. That is so typical of a trump supporter. Dismiss what the dictionary says and replace it with I don't think.

Alternative facts to the rescue.
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It's coup no matter what dictionary or language you choose.
 
I see that or Republican friends have no interest in a serious discussion on this -or really, any - topic.
 
bongsaway said:
Just curious, why do you guys use the term coup when its not? I think the term you guys are looking for is revolution.
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It was the Democrat's term of choice in 1999. See also the phrases, overturn an election and undo the will of the people.
 
Jay59 said:
It was the Democrat's term of choice in 1999. See also the phrases, overturn an election and undo the will of the people.
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Cites?
 
I posed this question: What are legitimate grounds for impeachment? It can't help to be noticed that not one, single Trump defender is willing to address the question. I think we all know why.
 
lemmiwinx said:
If I was impeaching Trump I'd have to come up with a crime he committed first. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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You don't have to commit a crime to be impeached.

Incompetency and behavior can be (and have) applied for impeachment.

Also, the phrase "abuse of power" doesn't always mean a crime either. The Founders used British law for the basis of that phrase and its application. So, according to the Founders...no, a crime is not needed to be impeached.
 
lemmiwinx said:
It's coup no matter what dictionary or language you choose.
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It isn’t a coup.

You like calling it one because right wing media and Trump know they can push your emotional buttons and play to white victimhood by portraying any threat to the right’s fool’s gold fuhrer as a coup, or some extra legal act.

A coup involves the removal of an entire sitting government and replacing it with something else.

What kind of coup makes Mike Pence President.

I have the same problem bongsway has with you Trumpsters.

As a Trumpster the obvious question (what kind of coup makes Mike Pence President?, or “how can you claim there is no evidence when you’re sitting on all of it?”), and Trumpsters run away every single time.

I’ve asked the Pence question at least a dozen times now. I got exactly one response. He tried to deflect and never really addressed the question at all.
 
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