Family of toddler who fell from cruise ship 'utterly crushed' after grandfather charged

What I am reading is the cruise ship company used its economic power to get the Puerto Rican government to prosecute to protect themselves for an obvious lawsuit.

Think of an 11 story hotel that has no barrier nor warning to open windows for little children to fall to their deaths - then blame the parent or grandparent to avoid a multi-million dollar lawsuit and OMG having to actually spend $5 per window or 5 cents for a screw so the windown only opens a few inches so it doesn't happen again? That's outrageous.

joko104 said:

What I am reading is the cruise ship company used its economic power to get the Puerto Rican government to prosecute to protect themselves for an obvious lawsuit.

Think of an 11 story hotel that has no barrier nor warning to open windows for little children to fall to their deaths - then blame the parent or grandparent to avoid a multi-million dollar lawsuit and OMG having to actually spend $5 per window or 5 cents for a screw so the windown only opens a few inches so it doesn't happen again? That's outrageous.

Click to expand...

It depends out high off the floor the window is. If the window is 5 foot or higher I think that would be a deterrent for most people accidentally stepping out it.

americanwoman said:

Maybe I am being harsh but as a mother I imagine if someone else's neglect caused my child to die I wouldn't think guilt is enough punishment.

Click to expand...

So if it was say your life partner or spouse.. that made such an error./accident. you would like to see them locked up from your family.. so none of the other children could interact with them.. and lose their income.. putting a financial strain on the whole family .

Because they say.. thought a window was closed and it actually wasn't....????

Please explain.

nota bene said:

Most of us are lucky enough to only be able to imagine the loss of a child. And I think most of us hardly ever reflect on just how very lucky are that that one moment of inattentiveness--of looking in the wrong direction for just a second or so or that head-cracking slip on the coffee table while horsing around--didn't lead to tragedy. Even if it was only an accident, can you imagine carrying the weight of that guilt for the rest of your life, of having to learn to somehow go on despite it? And here, the grandfather is not only responsible for the death of his beloved grandchild, but also for breaking his own child's heart forever. I wouldn't wish this on anybody.

Click to expand...

Or even if it doesn't happen, but almost did. Years ago, to back out from where I parked required coming around a blind corner of the house and then back down a narrow driveway. A foot on one side what the house. A foot on the otherside was a 3 foot concrete wall (that went downward) - with only a short curb. The vehicle had no back up camera.

Almost every day while backing up, there would be a big steel Tonka dump truck with a missing wheel that I couldn't see and didn't know it was there until bumping into it. I would have to get out, try to walk on top of that curb trying not to fall off - move it and then back. That day I was running late and DAMN - hit that Tonka truck. I backed super slow because it was all blind to me.

I'd had it with that broken toy and decided I'll just back over it to crush it and then throw it away that night. One of the mini-rage moments. But I was in a new car - not my truck - and thought since it's a big steel toy it might get stuck under car and do damage. I was a split second from hitting the accelerate to back over it fast - a rage thing. Instead, I got out like usual to move it - only this time is one one of my little children on a tricycle. It would have instantly wrapped my little boy under the car and tangled in the tricycle - certain death.

I could have never forgiven myself - killed my son in some stupid rage - and it would haunt my wife, the children and the marriage/family permanently. To this day, I can't shake the memory of what almost happened. Just thinking of it sends a shiver down my spine. Horrifying just to think of.

Prosecuting the grandfather is absurd. Parents and grandparents make mistakes at leass than perfect supervision and perfect decisions every millisecond to millisecond. The fault is 100% the fault of the cruise ship and there was no "crime" the grandfather committed. Why not then prosecute the parents too - claiming it was negligent homicide to leave the child with the grandfather? I truly do believe the prosecution is solely on the pressure of the cruise ship line to cover them in relation to a multi-million dollar lawsuit and to avoid having to modernize their ships to obvious safety standards.

Grandpa should be charged. He sat the toddler on the rail at the open window and let her fall through the hole. I don't buy the whole I thought it was just really clean shtick.

Crosscheck said:

Yes, I think you would definitely feel the wind through an open window.

If the window was above his head then perhaps one wouldn't feel the wind. But even if above your head one would hold on safely to a child so as not to just fall on the floor.

Obviously there wasn't anything sinister about the grandfather's action. I put him in the category of the guy who backs his truck over his child in the driveway. Really don't see a reason to arrest him.

But if the family sues the ship for negligence then I would think the grandfather should share a percentage of that negligence.

Click to expand...

The vessel was docked, not at sea

HumblePi said:

The vessel was docked, not at sea

Click to expand...

So there would still be some difference from an open and closed window you would think.

Am not certain but the most reasonable explanation would be that the window was above the grandfather's head. Still it seems hard to believe you couldn't tell there wasn't a window but I guess it is possible.

Even if there was a window you hold the child secure that they don't fall to the floor.

I just can't think of anything more terrible to have to live with.

Crosscheck said:

So there would still be some difference from an open and closed window you would think.

Am not certain but the most reasonable explanation would be that the window was above the grandfather's head. Still it seems hard to believe you couldn't tell there wasn't a window but I guess it is possible.

Even if there was a window you hold the child secure that they don't fall to the floor.

I just can't think of anything more terrible to have to live with.

Click to expand...

There just might not have been any wind coming through the same as there would be at sea.

jaeger19 said:

So if it was say your life partner or spouse.. that made such an error./accident. you would like to see them locked up from your family.. so none of the other children could interact with them.. and lose their income.. putting a financial strain on the whole family .

Because they say.. thought a window was closed and it actually wasn't....????

Please explain.

Click to expand...

Grandfather Charged in Death of Toddler Who Fell from Ship | PEOPLE.com

The family’s attorney, Michael Winkleman, previously explained that Anello had put her on the ledge of a window in the children’s area. Winkleman said that Chloe’s grandfather was unaware that it was open. Chloe was used to being next to glass, having a habit of banging on the panels at the hockey rink at home while attending her brother’s games and practices.

Click to expand...

If she is known to have a habit of banging on window panels, why place her on a ledge of a window where even if it's not open she might bang it and break it and fall anyway?

I don't know, maybe you can think I am cold blooded but if someone thoughtlessly put my child near an open (even if they didn't know) window pane 10 stories up and caused her death I probably wouldn't want to see them again for a long time - not that I necessarily want them to go to jail. If it was myself, I wouldn't want to live.

nota bene said:

Most of us are lucky enough to only be able to imagine the loss of a child. And I think most of us hardly ever reflect on just how very lucky are that that one moment of inattentiveness--of looking in the wrong direction for just a second or so or that head-cracking slip on the coffee table while horsing around--didn't lead to tragedy. Even if it was only an accident, can you imagine carrying the weight of that guilt for the rest of your life, of having to learn to somehow go on despite it? And here, the grandfather is not only responsible for the death of his beloved grandchild, but also for breaking his own child's heart forever. I wouldn't wish this on anybody.

Click to expand...

Neither would I.

americanwoman said:

Maybe I am being harsh but as a mother I imagine if someone else's neglect caused my child to die I wouldn't think guilt is enough punishment.

Click to expand...

It's the grandfather. This isn't some random idiot who has no emotional connection to the child. It's the grandfather who as far as we can tell loves the child. For as long as he lives he's going to have to look his Son and Daughter in the eye knowing the his stupid mistake caused the death of their baby. Who in case you forgot was the grandfathers own grand daughter.

I mean if you did something stupid and accidentally killed your own baby do you think that wouldn't haunt you for the rest of your life? Do you think a prison sentence would really change anything?

MrWonka said:

It's the grandfather. This isn't some random idiot who has no emotional connection to the child. It's the grandfather who as far as we can tell loves the child. For as long as he lives he's going to have to look his Son and Daughter in the eye knowing the his stupid mistake caused the death of their baby. Who in case you forgot was the grandfathers own grand daughter.

I mean if you did something stupid and accidentally killed your own baby do you think that wouldn't haunt you for the rest of your life? Do you think a prison sentence would really change anything?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't want to live if I did something that stupid.

americanwoman said:

Grandfather Charged in Death of Toddler Who Fell from Ship | PEOPLE.com



If she is known to have a habit of banging on window panels, why place her on a ledge of a window where even if it's not open she might bang it and break it and fall anyway?

I don't know, maybe you can think I am cold blooded but if someone thoughtlessly put my child near an open (even if they didn't know) window pane 10 stories up and caused her death I probably wouldn't want to see them again for a long time - not that I necessarily want them to go to jail. If it was myself, I wouldn't want to live.

Click to expand...

Its not being coldblooded..its just not thinking it through. Lets say that you made such a mistake. Yeah. you wouldn't want to live. SO.. what would be better for your surviving children and family? Being locked up so that you never see those children again?. So that you cannot provide for their welfare? So that you surviving children have to go through not having another parent to do those things parents do?

Is everything you have been as a parent.. and everything you would be as a parent. All summed up in one moment of thoughtlessness? Just saying that its easy to come up with that knee jerk reaction. But then there is reality.

I deal with this on a daily basis with parents that are patients and (patients that are children) that have done things like fell asleep at the wheel. That answered a text message when driving. That decided to mow the lawn with a baby on their lap. Which they had done time and time before. Until the toddler fell asleep and fell.
That took the kids out to "see the horsies"..and didn't realize that a child could squeeze between the corral slats and get into the corral. Just a moment of thoughtlessness.
and a head injury and broken pelvis.

Prosecutors don't earn a paycheck unless they are prosecuting people. Story sounds like a real tragedy all around. I recall the story of rock and roll guitarist Eric Clapton's young son falling out of multi story window to the child's death because someone wasn't being mindful. I don't believe anyone went to prison because how can you punish a parent or guardian more than the will punish themselves in these occurrences? This was not a case of the adult off doing drugs and leaving a child unattended.

Unless there was evidence that the grandfather was acting with a callous and wanton disregard for the child, I don't see how incarcerating him makes this a better outcome? Does the prosecutor believe that putting this man in prison will make society safer?

This is why there are juries who will weigh the facts---- and even if the facts support the prosecution's case, the jury still has an option to nullify.

UPDATE

I caught some flack here for being harsh on the grandfather.

Now I see this video of the grandfather two points - 1- He knew the window was open and put the toddler there, held her outside the window, and oops. 2 - He completely lied about the location and the situation.

I was right to be skeptical and to place the blame on the negliglence of the grandfather.



Jerkoff with no concience.

americanwoman said:

negliglence of the grandfather.

Click to expand...

Recklessness and I am saying that because he just plead to negligent homicide and received probation. His conduct wasn't just negligent, it was RECKLESS and it should have been charged as such! Ridiculous.

Is the grandfather retarded or something? Anybody that has held a baby anywhere near a drop knows that you hold the baby closer and more securely... even if you think that there is glass.