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Thread: Meeting Force With Force

  1. #41
    User Court Jester's Avatar
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    Re: Meeting Force With Force

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post

    What Im saying is that a grown man who is not using any weapons should be well within his limits to use any level of force, short of using weapons, against another grown man whose attacking him, as long as he stops once his attacker stops. Is it reasonable for him to cross the line and use weapons against his attacker? Again that depends and I am not going to get into that but the point is that definitely if a man is not using weapons against another full grown male attacker, and he stops once his attacker stops, he should not get in trouble as the force he used is well within being reasonable.
    I think I am following you here.

    So the question should always come down to "reasonable", and in most cases before a court I believe that would be defined as a "reasonable man test", or in other words what a person of normal intelligence and cognition would do under similar circumstances. Not what a hyper paranoid person, or a person who may be on drugs or have some other problems would do. But what a rational and empathetic human being would find to be reasonable.

    For me it comes down to the fact that everyone is naturally entitled to defend themselves against death or great bodily harm. So no, a person wouldn't be in any trouble anyway if they were using reasonable force depending on the level of threat. What often happens however is you end up with two people unwilling to back down (aka: mutual combat) and then you end up going back and seeing if either party was no longer acting within reason.
    Ignorance of your rights is no excuse.

  2. #42
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    Re: Meeting Force With Force

    A couple of years ago a liquor store clerk shot an armed holdup man, the man staggered out of the store and collapsed in the parking lot. The clerk came out and shot him again. That last shot is what got the clerk arrested and charged. He never served a day in prison, but it cost him many thousands in legal fees to get off on probation.

  3. #43
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    Re: Meeting Force With Force

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    When it comes to using force in self defense, you're supposed to stop once your attacker stops. The whole point of self defense is to stop an attacker so if you continue to beat on an attacker, or in this case I should say former attacker, after they're no longer a threat, it is no longer self defense at that point.

    However, this can even get more complicated. With self defense you're supposed to meet force with equal force, at least according to the law. This is what Im against. There should be no limit to the level of force that you can use to stop an attacker, as long as you stop once the attacker stops.
    That's reasonable.
    “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.“
    -George Orwell, 1984

  4. #44
    Professor Hamish Howl's Avatar
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    Re: Meeting Force With Force

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    When it comes to using force in self defense, you're supposed to stop once your attacker stops. The whole point of self defense is to stop an attacker so if you continue to beat on an attacker, or in this case I should say former attacker, after they're no longer a threat, it is no longer self defense at that point.

    However, this can even get more complicated. With self defense you're supposed to meet force with equal force, at least according to the law. This is what Im against. There should be no limit to the level of force that you can use to stop an attacker, as long as you stop once the attacker stops.
    You stop attacking when the threat is over.

    I had a vendor rep here in Tucson who was robbed by a crackhead at knife point at a DIY carwash joint. The guy took his walled and walked about a half a block away. Then he turned around and headed back.

    Tom was able at this point to get into his vehicle, where he fished his pistol out and shot the guy. The guy lived, and went off to the joint. Tom spent the next 2 years tangled up in the legal system, because the guy was 100 feet away when he shot him. He was eventually acquitted because the guy was headed back his way...He already had Tom's wallet, so why on Earth would he come back? I mean, aside from being a crackhead.
    What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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