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Thread: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

  1. #21
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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    AAGt1JZ[1].jpg

    Sure it is just a gesture but I would take that serious if a neighbor did that to me and wasn't kidding around. If I have a wife and kids at that home I am going to confront him.



    ‘Gun-like gesture’ deemed crime by Pennsylvania court

  2. #22
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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I did read the decision and it's crap. The judge determined that the act was "public" because another neighbor saw it. If the neighbor saw that act then she could have seen the double bird as well which made THAT act public and, in the esteemed justice's world, also subject to the statute in question.

    The trial judge should have told them to get the **** out of his or her court. That would have been the proper way to handle things.
    Depends upon their view/where they were walking. Did they provide evidence, and were they asked about this?

    Clearly she did not see the double bird or it would have been presented to the Judge.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Depends upon their view/where they were walking. Did they provide evidence, and were they asked about this?

    Clearly she did not see the double bird or it would have been presented to the Judge.
    It isn't a matter of whether she saw it or not. It's a matter of whether she could have seen it. The judge is rather clear on that distinction in the decision.

  4. #24
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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    His article links to the decision, containing things like:

    Josh Klingseisen was mulching in his backyard when Kirchner and Klingseisen’s neighbor, Elaine Natore, walked through an alley that runs behind Klingseisen’s yard to Natore’s residence. Kirchner stopped, made eye contact with Klingseisen, and then made a hand gesture at him imitating the firing and recoiling of a gun.

    The incident was video-recorded by Klingseisen,2 who had previously installed six security cameras at his home due to ongoing confrontations between him and Natore. At the time of the incident, Natore had a “no contact” order against Klingseisen. Klingseisen testified at trial that he felt “[e]xtremely threatened” when Kirchner made the gun gesture at him. Trial Court Opinion, filed January 7, 2019, at 2 (quoting N.T., 10/17/18, at 7).


    So there's apparently a serious enough history of confrontations between them that the person at whom the shooting gesture was made installed six security cameras. The victim of the gesture had a no-contact order against the person who made it. That's where the "risk of altercation" angle is coming from. That's also why the victim - the one with the no contact order - wasn't charged.

    You will also note that the fact that the prosecutor charges only one of two parties involved in something does not somehow make it unfair to the one person charged.

    Another thing Luther got wrong is that this wasn't "people suing each other over hand gestures". It was a disorderly conduct charge.




    The decision was only 9 pages, double-spaced, in huge font. You could have at least read it and honestly discussed it. You do this **** all the time.

    Too much to ask, I guess.
    He could have at least fired back! (With his fingers, that is.).
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  5. #25
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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Court upholds conviction of man who pointed "finger gun" at neighbor

    According to the article the finger gun gesture presented a serious risk of prompting an altercation but, apparently, the double barreled bird is't expected to have such an effect.

    Fellow Americans, it's a pretty damned sad state of things when we have people suing each other over hand gestures and it's pretty damned pathetic that courts are actually hearing these cases.

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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by trixare4kids View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's a white power sign or a Nazi thing or something equally as horrible.

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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's a white power sign or a Nazi thing or something equally as horrible.
    You mean, sort of like this?

  8. #28
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    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's a white power sign or a Nazi thing or something equally as horrible.
    It's a dog.
    I prefer similes to smilies.

  9. #29

    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Personslly i think there is more to this story than meets the eye. I do lean toward agreeing with checkerboards opinion that the court was admonishing the guy for violating the spitit of the no contact order. Depending on the context of the gesture it could of been a threat.

    I'm finding it a bit difficult difficult to accept this guys word at face value that he installed security cameras specifically because of this fued. I am curious if any evidence was presented to support that claim beyond his word.

    Overall this whole things seems like a waste of the courts time and money to prosecute. The fact that they did and that they envoked a rather broad interpretation of an ambigiously worded legal standard is imo a form of misconduct by the prosecutor and judge.

    If i were the defendent i would refuse to pay the fine and the court costs. I would take the jail time and drive the expenses for the state up even further.

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  10. #30

    Re: Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever read

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    Yeah okay, maybe the neighbor (Neighbor A?) with their double barreled middle finger salute should have gotten some heat, too.
    Based on the courts reasoning i would say he absolutely should of been charged too. According to the ruling his guilt was predicated on the reasoning that his hand gesture created the potential to esculate a dangerous situtation. If thats the reasoning i dont see how flipping someone off isnt seen in the same way.

    The whole thing is dumb snd should of never seen the inside of a courtroom but since they took it to that extreme they should of least been even handed about it. By the court taking a side it may of done what it accussed the defendant of. They may of esculated a dangerous situtaiin by choosing a winner and a loser. Imo it would of been better if the court fined both of them and told them all to stop the nonsense and stop wasting valuable court time.

    I would also like to know more about what lead to the no contact order. The details of that may be what influenced the court to rule the way it did.

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