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Victimless Crimes

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DebateChallenge

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Should victimless crimes in fact be crimes? Should laws that prohibit victimless crimes be enforced? Should we even have laws against victimless crimes?
 
DebateChallenge said:
Should victimless crimes in fact be crimes? Should laws that prohibit victimless crimes be enforced? Should we even have laws against victimless crimes?
Click to expand...

Which specific crimes do you consider to be victimless?
 
The term "victimless crimes" is basically a legal sophistry, an oxymoron.

But without them our Bureau of Prisons employees would not be needed, and our cops would have many fewer people to harass and arrest. Fewer prosecutors would be needed, and probably fewer government employees of all types.

For the government bureaucrat, victimless crimes are like the Goose That Lays Golden Eggs. They will be protected by the status quo.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Should victimless crimes in fact be crimes? Should laws that prohibit victimless crimes be enforced? Should we even have laws against victimless crimes?
Click to expand...

What would you describe as a victimless crime or laws against victimless crimes. I assume a victimless crime or a law against is one that doesn't harm someone else. Wearing a seatbelt is a law that would be classified as a victimless crime law as whether you wear or don't wear one isn't going to harm anyone else except one's self.

I would think, I don't know, never checked it out, but I would think most victimless crimes laws are their to protect the individual against himself or add additional safety to the individual himself.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Should victimless crimes in fact be crimes? Should laws that prohibit victimless crimes be enforced? Should we even have laws against victimless crimes?
Click to expand...




No, victimless crimes should not be crimes.

But such "crimes" make jobs for cops, lawyers, judges, and jail guards and clerks.

And they please the moralists.

Plus the fines bring in money to the city coffers.
 
Perotista said:
What would you describe as a victimless crime or laws against victimless crimes. I assume a victimless crime or a law against is one that doesn't harm someone else. Wearing a seatbelt is a law that would be classified as a victimless crime law as whether you wear or don't wear one isn't going to harm anyone else except one's self.

I would think, I don't know, never checked it out, but I would think most victimless crimes laws are their to protect the individual against himself or add additional safety to the individual himself.
Click to expand...

The most obvious of the victimless crimes are the drug laws, followed closely by prostitution laws. Both inspired by our Judeo-Christian Heritage.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Should victimless crimes in fact be crimes? Should laws that prohibit victimless crimes be enforced? Should we even have laws against victimless crimes?
Click to expand...

The biggest challenge you have is defining what is victimless, and arguably it needs to be in the absolute sense is no impact to others.
 
Victimless crimes are created by laws designed to prevent possible harms, or enforce moral codes. They include individual activities and consensual activities where there is no actual victim. However, the potential for harms (moral or actual) is considered sufficient cause to punish.

The short list includes:

Drug use.

Drunk driving.

Driving without seat belts, baby seats, required insurance coverage, license, registration, license plates.

Prostitution.

"Deviant" sexual behaviors.

Trespassing.

Smuggling.

Speeding.

Arms trafficking.

and so on.
 
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Thoreau72 said:
The most obvious of the victimless crimes are the drug laws, followed closely by prostitution laws. Both inspired by our Judeo-Christian Heritage.
Click to expand...

I would add any firearms possession law that doesn't involve the harm of another person.

Prostitution is the best example of a law based on the moral ideas of a non participant. Hence victimless.
 
Perotista said:
What would you describe as a victimless crime or laws against victimless crimes. I assume a victimless crime or a law against is one that doesn't harm someone else. Wearing a seatbelt is a law that would be classified as a victimless crime law as whether you wear or don't wear one isn't going to harm anyone else except one's self.

I would think, I don't know, never checked it out, but I would think most victimless crimes laws are their to protect the individual against himself or add additional safety to the individual himself.
Click to expand...

Hmm... wearing a seatbelt decreases serious injuries or deaths resulting from auto "accidents" which impose costs on others - do such laws really not have merit? Safety is defined as the absence or reduction of risk - is that risk, and the cost of it, born entirely by the individual increasing that risk? If not, then those taking (creating?) that added risk are imposing costs on (harm to?) others who then become victims by being forced to cover those added costs.

Of course, that concept could be taken to extremes where we pass laws to fine (or tax) the obese or impose "sin" taxes on alcohol, tobacco and marijuana use.
 
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Thoreau72 said:
The most obvious of the victimless crimes are the drug laws, followed closely by prostitution laws. Both inspired by our Judeo-Christian Heritage.
Click to expand...

There are certain drugs in my opinion that needs to be illegal. If for no other reason to save an individual from himself. There are other drugs that probably should be made legal. Prostitution, there I agree. It should be legal.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Should victimless crimes in fact be crimes? Should laws that prohibit victimless crimes be enforced? Should we even have laws against victimless crimes?
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Meth should never be legal
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... wearing a seatbelt decreases serious injuries or deaths resulting from auto "accidents" which impose costs on others - do such laws really not have merit? Safety is defined as the absence or reduction of risk - is that risk, and the cost of it, born entirely by the individual increasing that risk? If not, then those taking (creating?) that added risk are imposing costs on (harm to?) others who then become victims by being forced to cover those added costs.

Of course, that concept could be taken to extremes where we pass laws to fine (or tax) the obese or impose "sin" taxes on alcohol, tobacco and marijuana use.
Click to expand...

We do have a habit of taking almost everything to extremes. With the seat belt I was looking at physical harm, not money.
 
Can you be your own victim?

Say you develop a drug habit and it's obviously to everyone that you're going to OD and die.

Should your drug use be legal?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Victimless crimes are created by laws designed to prevent possible harms, or enforce moral codes. They include individual activities and consensual activities where there is no actual victim. However, the potential for harms (moral or actual) is considered sufficient cause to punish.

The short list includes:

Drug use.

Drunk driving.

Driving without seat belts, baby seats, required insurance coverage, license, registration, license plates.

Prostitution.

"Deviant" sexual behaviors.

Trespassing.

Smuggling.

Speeding.

Arms trafficking.

and so on.
Click to expand...

We are a stupid breed. We need laws to protect us from ourselves and to protect others.
Most of these activities can create victims. Example speeding can result in a vehicle accident.
 
OrphanSlug said:
The biggest challenge you have is defining what is victimless, and arguably it needs to be in the absolute sense is no impact to others.
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There is precious little which one does which as no potential impact on others. Even tax (including user fee) evasion has impact on others. If there was no law against driving without a license then who would elect to pay that user fee? If there was no law requiring the reporting of (taxable) income then who would do so?
 
swing_voter said:
Can you be your own victim?

Say you develop a drug habit and it's obviously to everyone that you're going to OD and die.

Should your drug use be legal?
Click to expand...

Perhaps the better question is: does society have any obligation to cover the costs resulting from such bad (harmful?) individual choices?
 
Thoreau72 said:
But without them our Bureau of Prisons employees would not be needed, and our cops would have many fewer people to harass and arrest. Fewer prosecutors would be needed, and probably fewer government employees of all types.
Click to expand...

Then we can save jillions of dollars.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Which specific crimes do you consider to be victimless?
Click to expand...

A victimless crime is "an illegal act that typically either directly involves only the perpetrator or occurs between consenting adults; because it is consensual in nature, there is arguably no true victim, i.e. aggrieved party."
 
Perotista said:
Wearing a seatbelt is a law that would be classified as a victimless crime law as whether you wear or don't wear one isn't going to harm anyone else except one's self.
Click to expand...
The seatbelt law keeps insurance prices down. If they didn't have the seatbelt law it could be argued that the victim would be the insurance companies since they would have to cover more injuries and deaths due to automobile accidents.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Should victimless crimes in fact be crimes? Should laws that prohibit victimless crimes be enforced? Should we even have laws against victimless crimes?
Click to expand...

Please give us a list of your so-called "victimless crimes", and then we can take the discussion further.
 
Thoreau72 said:
The most obvious of the victimless crimes are the drug laws, followed closely by prostitution laws. Both inspired by our Judeo-Christian Heritage.
Click to expand...

Prostitution laws should be revoked. Its legal for consenting adults to have sex, it shouldn't all of a sudden become illegal just because money happens to be exchanged.

Drug laws, it could be argued that when a person is high they're a danger to society so therefore drug crimes are not victimless.
 
Perotista said:
We do have a habit of taking almost everything to extremes. With the seat belt I was looking at physical harm, not money.
Click to expand...

We (as a society) do not beat folks for not wearing seat belts - we merely fine them for the crime of imposing unnecessary risk, the cost of which would likely be passed on to others. Driving without a license (or liability insurance) causes no physical harm yet is deemed to be a much more serious harm to society than not wearing a seat belt, thus results in a much higher fine.

I agree that we (via our government) do tend to take things to extremes - especially tax (including user fee) evasion which directly reduces the power of government (control) which is alleged to harm everyone else greatly.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Victimless crimes are created by laws designed to prevent possible harms, or enforce moral codes. They include individual activities and consensual activities where there is no actual victim. However, the potential for harms (moral or actual) is considered sufficient cause to punish.

The short list includes:

Drug use.

Drunk driving.

Driving without seat belts, baby seats, required insurance coverage, license, registration, license plates.

Prostitution.

"Deviant" sexual behaviors.

Trespassing.

Smuggling.

Speeding.

Arms trafficking.

and so on.
Click to expand...

Not all the crimes you mentioned are victimless. Drug use is not victimless since a person can be a danger to others when they're high. Drunk driving is obviously not victimless since a drunk driver is dangerous on the road so anybody else on the road at the time would be the victims. Deviant sexual behaviors, that depends. Sex in public for instance, the victims are the other people in public who don't want to see it. With trespassing the victim is whoever's property you're trespassing on. Speeding is not victimless since, like drunk driving, the victims are other people on the road since you're putting them at danger by speeding.
 
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