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Victimless Crimes

Everything you state is self inflicted problems.

Using a pimp is a personal choice.
Drugs are a personal choice.
No skills is a personal choice.

Quite possibly those are the consequences of present or former actions, but none are unavoidable.

Using a pimp is a personal choice. - Not always
Drugs are a personal choice. - Not always
No skills is a personal choice. - Not always

Sometimes people are coerced and/or forced to do thing under duress.

I am not sure why you two are even arguing against sex slavery or poverty driven pimp prostitution, etc.

They are just facts.

If the argument against prostitution is that some may be forced into it, the crime is the forcing, not the prostitution.

We are not arguing that... we are arguing his stupid claim that all prostitution is consensual.
 
Using a pimp is a personal choice. - Not always
Drugs are a personal choice. - Not always
No skills is a personal choice. - Not always

Sometimes people are coerced and/or forced to do thing under duress.

I am not sure why you two are even arguing against sex slavery or poverty driven pimp prostitution, etc.

They are just facts.



We are not arguing that... we are arguing his stupid claim that all prostitution is consensual.

Always
Always
Always

Like I said, if people are forced into something, then the crime is the forcing.

Who said all prostitution is consensual? I missed that.
 
Always
Always
Always

Like I said, if people are forced into something, then the crime is the forcing.

Who said all prostitution is consensual? I missed that.

Lacking skills is not a choice... half the population has an IQ UNDER 100... and 2-4% are in the low 80's and below.
Having a pimp can be forced on a person too... as well as drugs, getting them addicted and on the streets.
Girl, 17, 'plied with drugs and forced into prostitution' after being lured to motel with promise of babysitting job | The Independent

Like I said... facts.

And nobody is talking about what is and what is not a crime except you.
 
Victimless crimes are created by laws designed to prevent possible harms, or enforce moral codes. They include individual activities and consensual activities where there is no actual victim. However, the potential for harms (moral or actual) is considered sufficient cause to punish.

The short list includes:

Drug use.

Drunk driving.

Driving without seat belts, baby seats, required insurance coverage, license, registration, license plates.

Prostitution.

"Deviant" sexual behaviors.

Trespassing.

Smuggling.

Speeding.

Arms trafficking.

and so on.

I would put gun control measures in this category as well.
 
The point is not that some prostitutes like their work it is that the overall job of prostitution contains victims...

What are your thoughts on prostitution in places where it is legal and there are laws to protect them, like, for example, in Amsterdam?
 
What are your thoughts on prostitution in places where it is legal and there are laws to protect them, like, for example, in Amsterdam?

I think all prostitution should be legalized... it is stupid to make it illegal and just makes matters worse rather than better. It is not the governments job to tell people what they can do with their bodies as long as it is not hurting anybody...
 
I think all prostitution should be legalized... it is stupid to make it illegal and just makes matters worse rather than better. It is not the governments job to tell people what they can do with their bodies as long as it is not hurting anybody...

It makes sense, at least in theory.

But in practice, the experience of Amsterdam in legalizing prostitution has not been smooth or one of unmitigated success. At all.

“Prostitution has remained connected to criminal activities, which has led the authorities to take several measures, including detailed plans to help the prostitutes quit the sex trade and find other professions.

In 2005 Amma Asante and Karina Schaapman, two councilors for the Labour Party (Netherlands), wrote a report, "Het onzichtbare zichtbaar gemaakt" (Making the Invisible Visible). Schaapman had once been a prostitute and was getting information about the influx of organized crime and violence into the business. Other reports came out around the same time. They concluded that a large number of prostitutes in Amsterdam were being forced to work and were being abused by pimps and criminal gangs, and that the goals of legalization were failing.[17][18]...

At the end of 2008, Mayor Cohen announced plans to close half of the city's 400 prostitution windows because of suspected criminal gang activity. The mayor is also closing some of the city's 70 marijuana cafes and sex clubs.[8] This comes at the same time as the Government's decision to ban the sale of "magic mushrooms" and the closure of all coffee shops situated near schools...

Many victims of human trafficking are led to believe by organized criminals that they are being offered work in hotels or restaurants or in child care and are forced into prostitution with the threat or actual use of violence. Estimates of the number of victims vary from 1,000 to 7,000 on a yearly basis. Most police investigations on human trafficking concern legal sex businesses. All sectors of prostitution are well represented in these investigations, but particularly the window brothels are overrepresented. [29]...

The United States Department of State Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons ranks the Netherlands as a 'Tier 1' country.[34]“
Prostitution in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

So I don’t know. Legalized prostitution; its one of those “darned if you do, darned if you don’t” type situations. It seems to be a little different than just selling cars or rugs or something. It seems far more predisposed to creating situations for exploitation and abuse.
 
It makes sense, at least in theory.

But in practice, the experience of Amsterdam in legalizing prostitution has not been smooth or one of unmitigated success. At all.

“Prostitution has remained connected to criminal activities, which has led the authorities to take several measures, including detailed plans to help the prostitutes quit the sex trade and find other professions.

In 2005 Amma Asante and Karina Schaapman, two councilors for the Labour Party (Netherlands), wrote a report, "Het onzichtbare zichtbaar gemaakt" (Making the Invisible Visible). Schaapman had once been a prostitute and was getting information about the influx of organized crime and violence into the business. Other reports came out around the same time. They concluded that a large number of prostitutes in Amsterdam were being forced to work and were being abused by pimps and criminal gangs, and that the goals of legalization were failing.[17][18]...

At the end of 2008, Mayor Cohen announced plans to close half of the city's 400 prostitution windows because of suspected criminal gang activity. The mayor is also closing some of the city's 70 marijuana cafes and sex clubs.[8] This comes at the same time as the Government's decision to ban the sale of "magic mushrooms" and the closure of all coffee shops situated near schools...

Many victims of human trafficking are led to believe by organized criminals that they are being offered work in hotels or restaurants or in child care and are forced into prostitution with the threat or actual use of violence. Estimates of the number of victims vary from 1,000 to 7,000 on a yearly basis. Most police investigations on human trafficking concern legal sex businesses. All sectors of prostitution are well represented in these investigations, but particularly the window brothels are overrepresented. [29]...

The United States Department of State Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons ranks the Netherlands as a 'Tier 1' country.[34]“
Prostitution in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

So I don’t know. Legalized prostitution; its one of those “darned if you do, darned if you don’t” type situations. It seems to be a little different than just selling cars or rugs or something. It seems far more predisposed to creating situations for exploitation and abuse.

Poverty stricken and uneducated people will always face crime and dire situations...

I guess I was talking about more normal people... like you say out loud, "damn I am horny" and somebody else responds, in front of a cop, "$50 bucks and I'll do you"... I know this is ridiculous but it should not be illegal.
 
Poverty stricken and uneducated people will always face crime and dire situations...

I guess I was talking about more normal people... like you say out loud, "damn I am horny" and somebody else responds, in front of a cop, "$50 bucks and I'll do you"... I know this is ridiculous but it should not be illegal.

Yeah, but how many "normal" women go into prostitution because they find it to be a satisfying and fulfilling career? How many hotel chains get into international human trafficking just to staff the cleaning maid crews for their rooms?

Prostitution just seems to be slightly different than other "goods and services" in the economy- far more predisposed to exploitation, violence, and abuse.

I am not saying I have the answer. It's a very interesting question for me. The idea of legalizing prostitution in places like Amsterdam was that if you make sex a legal "goods and services" in the economy, then the crime will be taken out of it. I suspect they were thinking it would do for sex what getting rid of the prohibition did for alcohol in the 1930s. But it is not working out that way. I am just wondering if prostitution could ever, even theoretically, ever be an exploitation, violence, and abuse-free "goods and service" like others in the economy.
 
Yeah, but how many "normal" women go into prostitution because they find it to be a satisfying and fulfilling career? How many hotel chains get into international human trafficking just to staff the cleaning maid crews for their rooms?

Prostitution just seems to be slightly different than other "goods and services" in the economy- far more predisposed to exploitation, violence, and abuse.

I am not saying I have the answer. It's a very interesting question for me. The idea of legalizing prostitution in places like Amsterdam was that if you make sex a legal "goods and services" in the economy, then the crime will be taken out of it. I suspect they were thinking it would do for sex what getting rid of the prohibition did for alcohol in the 1930s. But it is not working out that way. I am just wondering if prostitution could ever, even theoretically, ever be an exploitation, violence, and abuse-free "goods and service" like others in the economy.

I agree that there are problems either way... and my argument is not just against what we call a career prostitute but for any sex for money situation.
 
Not if the nanny state says otherwise. You must comply with all of the laws of the nanny state lest the nanny state lose power to be in control to the (ever growing?) level which they have, by law, declared to be appropriate. If doing X or owning Y has been deemed inappropriate, or simply requires having (rented?) state permission, then the nanny state must enforce that law or it will soon lose control.

Before we know it, folks will be traveling on public roadways without licenses or liability insurance, carrying handguns without LTCs, catching fish without licenses, building a garage or toolshed without a permit, charging folks to have sex with them, using unapproved (and untaxed) recreational drugs and *gasp* working to support themselves without paying taxes for that privilege!

What's the nanny state?
 
IMO there is no such thing as a 'victimless crime'. Something is either a crime or it isn't. And it is only a crime if it presents a threat or harm to somebody else or has an unreasonable potential to do that.

There are a lot more criteria for crimes than that.
 
In a country where the government kills innocents all over the globe with drones, in a country where perjury by high public officials on TV is never punished, you think implementing the DP would be too expensive?

Does not compute.

I say no matter the cost, it is more humane to send a soul to the next level than to keep him in prison for life.

Unless that soul didn't commit the crime but was mistakenly found guilty.
 
Things like seat belt laws, blinker/brake light laws, If I had to guess are a creation from insurance companies that do two things. Helps keep the profits up for the insurance companies. And increase revenue for the governments that enforce laws like that.
I was told by a county cop that a LOT of cities couldn't even come close to balancing their budgets without traffic citations.

Luckily there a lot of bad drivers.
 
Show me some accurate stats to prove your claim please. How many are forced into it? How do you know this?

No matter, it's beside the point. Many if not most women in the profession do so of their own free will.

There are no victims in consensual sexual relations between humans.

You have no idea why most prostitutes are in that "profession".
 
My facts are simple. Having used the services of such working women many times over many years, I never met a single one that was being forced into such work. Most of them rather enjoyed their work.

I do understand that there is the trafficking in young runaways and such, but I just never personally encountered any.

Do you believe everything you see on the news? Naïve = Gullible

Who is the gullible one here? Those prostitutes are putting on an act for your benefit.
 
Everything you state is self inflicted problems.

Using a pimp is a personal choice.
Drugs are a personal choice.
No skills is a personal choice.

Quite possibly those are the consequences of present or former actions, but none are unavoidable.

The pimp is using them.
 
Unless that soul didn't commit the crime but was mistakenly found guilty.

And that is often the case in this country.

To be clear, I oppose the death penalty, but I think it is a more humane punishment than life in prison.
 
Who is the gullible one here? Those prostitutes are putting on an act for your benefit.

And I am happy to pay for that act, and some of the actresses thoroughly enjoy their acting.
 
And that is often the case in this country.

To be clear, I oppose the death penalty, but I think it is a more humane punishment than life in prison.

Unless the person has a chance of getting out of prison while still alive. And some may prefer life in prison to death. It depends on the individual.
 
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