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Mexican government admits 80% of its populated territory is run by cartels, including key border are

What if...? said:
If only drug prohibition wasnt making them so rich they can compete with a governement.
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Why do you think they sell illicit drug and smuggle humans? Would it be for profit?

They're just businessmen.
 
WCH said:
How are you applying that here?
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I believe that we are going to be on the receiving end of a massive population exodus from lands that are becoming slowly uninhabitable for human life. Individual self-interest will drive humanity into further conflict over what individuals consider to be “their resources”.

I think we are approaching a point in time where the needs of humanity as a whole will outweigh individual self-interest.
 
What if...? said:
Years ago a congressman tried to have exports of acetone to Columbia from the States curtailed as only a tiny percentage of what we were sending could be accounted for by legitimate uses.

It was shot down.

The drug war is just "security theater" (and probably an effort at disenfranchisement of voters)
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Yet another excuse to increase the power (and expense) of government.
 
WCH said:
As of last year, the Taliban controlled or contested 46 percent of the districts in Afghanistan’s civil war. That was enough justification for us to keep our military perpetually engaged there in combat. What if you were told that 80 percent of Mexico’s territory is controlled by dangerous cartels, including all of the key smuggling routes at our border, and that the cartels are orchestrating all of the illegal immigration into our territory and bringing their members back and forth across our own border?

Several weeks ago, the Mexican investigative journal Contralínea posted a map of Mexico prepared by the government of President Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO), showing that 80 percent of the country’s 266 districts recently targeted for enforcement by the Mexican National Guard in a new counter-cartel operation are either controlled (57.5 percent) or disputed (23.3 percent) by the cartels. “Only 53 (19.92 percent) enjoy a low level of violence, which means that control is exercised by the authorities,” reported Contralínea on May 4, citing the data on the color-coded map.


snip....

Mexican government admits 80% of its populated territory is run by cartels, including key border areas - Conservative Review

Who has a problem with this?
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I have said for years that we need to send in the Special Forces and kill anybody associated with the Cartels...
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I believe that we are going to be on the receiving end of a massive population exodus from lands that are becoming slowly uninhabitable for human life. Individual self-interest will drive humanity into further conflict over what individuals consider to be “their resources”.

I think we are approaching a point in time where the needs of humanity as a whole will outweigh individual self-interest.
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Some of us don't want to live under Communism. That is what you're suggesting.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I have said for years that we need to send in the Special Forces and kill anybody associated with the Cartels...
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They control the populations with fear and a bit of Robinhoodism [to make them seem human]. It would be tough weeding out their supporters.
 
WCH said:
I agree the Afghan situation is a bad example but, we were somewhat successful in killing the narco state in Columbia. Obviously Mexico is a tougher egg to crack.
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And the market is in the United States
 
WCH said:
What if you were told that 80 percent of Mexico’s territory is controlled by dangerous cartels, including all of the key smuggling routes at our border...?
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I'd say someone is indulging in motivated reasoning.

If you read the story, it's that the Mexican government is targeting areas for enforcement. Areas in red actually show high levels of cartel violence, not necessarily "control" -- i.e. the cartels are not collecting taxes, patrolling the streets, running the courts and trying to build a caliphate. Yellow is contested, green is safe, white (which is most of Mexico) is not a focus of interdiction.

bd478547-mexico.jpg


So basically, a conservative rag is deliberately twisting statements by the Mexican government, in order to use a real problem (cartels) to generate fake fear (Mexicans bad!!!).


....the cartels are orchestrating all of the illegal immigration into our territory and bringing their members back and forth across our own border?
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sigh

Like I said: Real problem (smuggling) with fake fear (illegals!!!)

The reality is that the cartels bring almost all of the drugs across the border at ports of entry, including using tunnels that go right under those walls, and planes that go right over the walls. Even if there was a wall 50 feet high and 50 feet deep on every inch of the border, drugs would still flow right into the US.

It's also critical to note that the cartels are selling drugs to Americans because Americans want to buy drugs. You might want to stop blaming foreigners for the problems we're causing for ourselves, and figure out how to reduce demand.
 
WCH said:
They control the populations with fear and a bit of Robinhoodism [to make them seem human]. It would be tough weeding out their supporters.
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Not supporters... associates... start with the cartel leaders and their families... then the gunmen/soldiers... supplies... by then the common workers will be out of a job of fleeing north to our Wall.
 
WCH said:
Who helped create the "market"?
If the drugs weren't available as they are, would there be a "market"?
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Hmm... did the availability of these drugs cause you to buy them? Markets, with very few notable exceptions, tend to work the other way around - demand precedes supply.
 
WCH said:
Why do you think they sell illicit drug and smuggle humans? Would it be for profit?

They're just businessmen.
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Enjoying black market profits.

The pot black market in California has almost been gutted by legalization. What used to go for $3k a pound you're lucky to get a grand for now.

End the black market and they won't have anywhere near as much money.

Some stupid people will die, but I consider that a win too.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... did the availability of these drugs cause you to buy them? Markets, with very few notable exceptions, tend to work the other way around - demand precedes supply.
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In retrospect, if there wasn't your choice of drug available, you were likely going to seek alternatives. I remember a time when there was no pot around but this crap with some sort of petroleum product spilt on it. It sold like hotcakes.
 
WCH said:
As of last year, the Taliban controlled or contested 46 percent of the districts in Afghanistan’s civil war. That was enough justification for us to keep our military perpetually engaged there in combat. What if you were told that 80 percent of Mexico’s territory is controlled by dangerous cartels, including all of the key smuggling routes at our border, and that the cartels are orchestrating all of the illegal immigration into our territory and bringing their members back and forth across our own border?

Several weeks ago, the Mexican investigative journal Contralínea posted a map of Mexico prepared by the government of President Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO), showing that 80 percent of the country’s 266 districts recently targeted for enforcement by the Mexican National Guard in a new counter-cartel operation are either controlled (57.5 percent) or disputed (23.3 percent) by the cartels. “Only 53 (19.92 percent) enjoy a low level of violence, which means that control is exercised by the authorities,” reported Contralínea on May 4, citing the data on the color-coded map.


snip....

Mexican government admits 80% of its populated territory is run by cartels, including key border areas - Conservative Review

Who has a problem with this?
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That article is rather misleading. The source it uses isn't actually saying that 80% of Mexico is cartel-controlled, only that 80% of the areas targeted by Mexican military operations are controlled by cartels. Most of Mexico is still firmly under the real government's grasp.

The cartels are a serious problem, but exaggerating the problem to this extent isn't helpful.
 
The Auditor said:
That article is rather misleading. The source it uses isn't actually saying that 80% of Mexico is cartel-controlled, only that 80% of the areas targeted by Mexican military operations are controlled by cartels. Most of Mexico is still firmly under the real government's grasp.

The cartels are a serious problem, but exaggerating the problem to this extent isn't helpful.
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It says 80% of the populated territories. Since the government is corrupt and likely in cahoots with the Cartels, who knows what the actual figures are.
 
The Auditor said:
That article is rather misleading. The source it uses isn't actually saying that 80% of Mexico is cartel-controlled, only that 80% of the areas targeted by Mexican military operations are controlled by cartels. Most of Mexico is still firmly under the real government's grasp.

The cartels are a serious problem, but exaggerating the problem to this extent isn't helpful.
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That is a good analysis. The 'conservative review' is not known for it being accurate when it comes to what is generally known as 'facts'.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That (bolded above) is debateable.



Colombia producing more cocaine than ever before, UN figures show | World news | The Guardian
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I can tell you a thing or two about Colombia. I have had people walk up to me with color glossy catalogs of every drug someone could ever want. I just said, that's interesting, but I'm here for *****. They politely walked away. Maybe drug trafficking isn't the seven headed monster we think it is. Also, another one of my occasional hang outs is Monterrey, Mexico. Again, no problems there either.
 
SDET said:
I can tell you a thing or two about Colombia. I have had people walk up to me with color glossy catalogs of every drug someone could ever want. I just said, that's interesting, but I'm here for *****. They politely walked away. Maybe drug trafficking isn't the seven headed monster we think it is. Also, another one of my occasional hang outs is Monterrey, Mexico. Again, no problems there either.
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Oh, another creepy post about your sex life...:roll:
 
The Auditor said:
That article is rather misleading. The source it uses isn't actually saying that 80% of Mexico is cartel-controlled, only that 80% of the areas targeted by Mexican military operations are controlled by cartels. Most of Mexico is still firmly under the real government's grasp.

The cartels are a serious problem, but exaggerating the problem to this extent isn't helpful.
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I wonder if there is some kind of arrangement where the cartels and the real government co-exist. All that drug money coming in from the USA puts food on lots of tables. More of the population that one might expect might be happy with all the money cartels pump into the economy. I can't tell you what goes on behind the scenes, but I can tell that Mexico is not a bad place. Lots of Americans retire there.
 
WCH said:
As of last year, the Taliban controlled or contested 46 percent of the districts in Afghanistan’s civil war. That was enough justification for us to keep our military perpetually engaged there in combat. What if you were told that 80 percent of Mexico’s territory is controlled by dangerous cartels, including all of the key smuggling routes at our border, and that the cartels are orchestrating all of the illegal immigration into our territory and bringing their members back and forth across our own border?

Several weeks ago, the Mexican investigative journal Contralínea posted a map of Mexico prepared by the government of President Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO), showing that 80 percent of the country’s 266 districts recently targeted for enforcement by the Mexican National Guard in a new counter-cartel operation are either controlled (57.5 percent) or disputed (23.3 percent) by the cartels. “Only 53 (19.92 percent) enjoy a low level of violence, which means that control is exercised by the authorities,” reported Contralínea on May 4, citing the data on the color-coded map.


snip....

Mexican government admits 80% of its populated territory is run by cartels, including key border areas - Conservative Review

Who has a problem with this?
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Where does the cartel get its money from? America. If you want to lessen their power then legalize drugs.
 
~ When Trump first took office he offered to send U.S. military down south to eradicate "some bad hombres" . Mexico refused .
 
LosAngelesAngel said:
~ When Trump first took office he offered to send U.S. military down south to eradicate "some bad hombres" . Mexico refused .
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The US military advises and in some cases participates in joint raids. Mexico turned down starting a civil war.
 
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