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Unionized police?

joko104

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Police unions... what do you think? Makes it almost impossible to fire an officer, but does provide job security and likely better pay and benefits. But also allows officers to be lazy and non-responsive.
 
Aren't they, at least some, unionized already?
 
At this point I am pretty much against all public sector unions, but not for the reasons the OP went with.

In the present context they are weaponized political organizations that can extort from the private sector via taxes benefits that the same private sector will never see.
 
Police unions... what do you think? Makes it almost impossible to fire an officer, but does provide job security and likely better pay and benefits. But also allows officers to be lazy and non-responsive.

An extremely clever scheme which allows the police (or other public service worker) union to give campaign cash (a legal bribe?) to the elected official(s) who they later "negotiate with" for better pay, benefits, equipment and/or working conditions. Of course, one is said to have nothing to do with the other - after all, simply because the police officer's union gives politicians loads of much needed campaign cash on a regular basis that has absolutely no impact (influence?) on those politician's deciding to dole out more taxpayer funds to the police department.
 
The NY PBA (Police Benevolent Association) has accomplished great things for its members. From legal assistance for home buying, adoption, estate planning to legal defense when warranted. It has negotiated wage and benefit packages, and protectively represented its members from overzealous and sometimes petty vengeful egotistical superiors. It has provided for the families of members fallen in the line of duty, and those suffering from their members being disabled in the line of duty. It has also negotiated for improved training. Yet it has also been in the forefront of dismissing corrupt and irresponsible members within its own ranks. Recently providing authorities information leading to the arrest of a member offering murder for hire.

If farmworkers, plumbers, electricians and so on can have unions, why not those who put their lives on the line everyday they wear their uniforms?
 
FOP has been around for a long time.

I think over aggressive and itchy-fingered are more the accusations being hurled at police nowadays more so than non-responsive and lazy...
 
Police unions... what do you think? Makes it almost impossible to fire an officer, but does provide job security and likely better pay and benefits. But also allows officers to be lazy and non-responsive.

It doesn't make it impossible to fire an officer.

What makes it difficult to fire an officer is the culture of the police to protect their fellow uniforms no matter how disastrous their behavior.

Unions are necessary especially for civil servants like police, fire fighters, or teachers.. because at the end of the day.. if there is no union.. they are at the mercy of the elected officials.. regardless of the needs for society.

I have seen that personally. Without unions.. teachers would be fired because they refused to pass the high school football star...

Firefighters would be fired if they dared to speak up about public policies that endangered the community.

Police would be fired if they did not respond to the rich neighborhoods and had more presence than in poor neighborhoods.
 
Unionized police?

absolutely. the market will never treat police, fire responders, or teachers well without public employee unions. there's a next logical step to that as well. see if you can guess what it is.
 
absolutely. the market will never treat police, fire responders, or teachers well without public employee unions. there's a next logical step to that as well. see if you can guess what it is.

Lemme guess- you get what you pay for.
 
Police unions... what do you think? Makes it almost impossible to fire an officer, but does provide job security and likely better pay and benefits. But also allows officers to be lazy and non-responsive.

Unions result in better working conditions and pay. Better working conditions and pay result in better employees being attracted, which is in the public interest in the case of police officers.

I do believe that public sector unions should be barred from endorsing or opposing any political candidate.
 
Police unions... what do you think? Makes it almost impossible to fire an officer, but does provide job security and likely better pay and benefits. But also allows officers to be lazy and non-responsive.

PD's have no problem firing officers, they just have to have just cause. As for lazy, I would say they are no different from the rest of society, good ones and bad ones, at least most DP's try weeding out the bad ones as soon as possible. I respect all LEOs for the job they do, anyone that is running towards what everyone is running away from is worthy of our gratitude.
 
Lemme guess- you get what you pay for.

More or less. Fair pay for those who dodge bullets, run into a burning house, and teach the next generation of brats to be good citizens seems to be a pretty good idea.
 
More or less. Fair pay for those who dodge bullets, run into a burning house, and teach the next generation of brats to be good citizens seems to be a pretty good idea.

Isn't it interesting.. that those who support high pay for CEO's etc.. claiming... "you need to pay well to get the best people"...

Seem to conveniently forget that maxim when it comes to civil employees?
 
Isn't it interesting.. that those who support high pay for CEO's etc.. claiming... "you need to pay well to get the best people"...

Seem to conveniently forget that maxim when it comes to civil employees?

Apples and oranges, but nice try. Maybe the market can put out your house fire for you, though. Maybe an independent contractor will catch the arsonist.
 
More or less. Fair pay for those who dodge bullets, run into a burning house, and teach the next generation of brats to be good citizens seems to be a pretty good idea.

Yep. Trouble is, it's a judgement call, putting a value on that kind of job. If you build houses it's easy- the lumber and materials has X value when delivered to the job, the house has Y value when completed and the difference is the value of what your crew produced. Cops, firemen, teachers, its not so easy but if you want to attract good people to those jobs (and everyone wants that) you'd better pay them.
 
absolutely. the market will never treat police, fire responders, or teachers well without public employee unions. there's a next logical step to that as well. see if you can guess what it is.

On the other hand unions yield tremendous political clout and in the case of public sector unions that influence is ultimately over the people on the other side of the bargaining table. As well the public sector doesn’t have to worry about matching labor costs to revenues since they can always just raise taxes or issue more debt.
 
Apples and oranges, but nice try. Maybe the market can put out your house fire for you, though. Maybe an independent contractor will catch the arsonist.

Where I live - a county 1.5 million residents - the FD is a volunteer organization. They do a pretty good job without paying ANY salaries - though they do pay some kind of retirement benefit.
 
Yep. Trouble is, it's a judgement call, putting a value on that kind of job. If you build houses it's easy- the lumber and materials has X value when delivered to the job, the house has Y value when completed and the difference is the value of what your crew produced. Cops, firemen, teachers, its not so easy but if you want to attract good people to those jobs (and everyone wants that) you'd better pay them.

i agree. i grew up in a teaching family, and my parents earned every cent and then some. the union helped to keep them from getting ****ed over, and believe me, in this state, you need all of the help that you can get.
 
Where I live - a county 1.5 million residents - the FD is a volunteer organization. They do a pretty good job without paying ANY salaries - though they do pay some kind of retirement benefit.

well, whatever works for you. i'm good with paying taxes that fund well paid firefighters.
 
At this point I am pretty much against all public sector unions, but not for the reasons the OP went with.

In the present context they are weaponized political organizations that can extort from the private sector via taxes benefits that the same private sector will never see.

So can the private sector itself. So unions must be on par with them. I tire of this old Virginia byrdesque worship of oligarchs.

The private sector has so much power that employees are all but crushed without unions.
 
The NY PBA (Police Benevolent Association) has accomplished great things for its members. From legal assistance for home buying, adoption, estate planning to legal defense when warranted. It has negotiated wage and benefit packages, and protectively represented its members from overzealous and sometimes petty vengeful egotistical superiors. It has provided for the families of members fallen in the line of duty, and those suffering from their members being disabled in the line of duty. It has also negotiated for improved training. Yet it has also been in the forefront of dismissing corrupt and irresponsible members within its own ranks. Recently providing authorities information leading to the arrest of a member offering murder for hire.

If farmworkers, plumbers, electricians and so on can have unions, why not those who put their lives on the line everyday they wear their uniforms?

Same for military? If not, why not? Same issues. Same risks. Actually, far worse risks.
 
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