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Incarceration in the US

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Masterhawk

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By now, plenty of you know that incarceration in the US is a major problem. As of 2015, 655 per 100,000 are incarcerated (the highest rate in the world). In fact, the US has a larger prison population than China, an authoritarian country with a population more than twice as large. As of 2018, 2.3 million people were behind bars in the US.

Here is a pie chart of inmates by their most serious crime:
View attachment 67240378

Decriminalizing drug use is a good start as half of federal prisoners are in for drug offenses but federal prisoners only make up 10% of the total inmate population. Most inmates are state prisoners and about half of those are in for violent crimes, very few for drug possession. Now perhaps the war on drugs is indirectly responsible for increasing violent and property crime by encouraging gang violence and leading people to steal to fund their addiction (drugs being illegal make them more expensive).

A major problem is that after inmates are done serving their sentences, many of them eventually end up back in within a few years. A 1994 analysis by the DOJ tracked the release of former inmates from 15 states for 3 years. For property crimes and illegal weapon crimes, over 70% went back to prison within 3 years. Meanwhile, only 2.5% of released rapists committed another rape and 1.2% of murderers committed another murder. The US government is putting people in jail but it isn't preparing people for life outside of the jail cells.

Another problem seems to be mandatory minimums. In the early 80s, both the state and federal governments enacted many "tough on crime policies" with mandatory minimums being one of them. Three strike laws (after the third felony, the mandatory minimum increases or maybe even life without parole) in particular may be responsible for the rise in incarceration. Another thing that came about in the 1980s were private prisons which then had an incentive to keep more people in jail (they lobby the government for stricter sentences).

Source of pie chart:
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html

In contrast to the US which focuses on punishing criminals to deter crime, Norway focuses on rehabilitating criminals to prepare them for their eventual return to the outside world. In Norway, the incarceration rate is 74 per 100,000, much lower than America's 655 per 100,000. The recidivism rate over 3 years is just 20%.

other sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#Recidivism_rates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
 
Masterhawk said:
By now, plenty of you know that incarceration in the US is a major problem. As of 2015, 655 per 100,000 are incarcerated (the highest rate in the world). In fact, the US has a larger prison population than China, an authoritarian country with a population more than twice as large. As of 2018, 2.3 million people were behind bars in the US.

Here is a pie chart of inmates by their most serious crime:
View attachment 67240378

Decriminalizing drug use is a good start as half of federal prisoners are in for drug offenses but federal prisoners only make up 10% of the total inmate population. Most inmates are state prisoners and about half of those are in for violent crimes, very few for drug possession. Now perhaps the war on drugs is indirectly responsible for increasing violent and property crime by encouraging gang violence and leading people to steal to fund their addiction (drugs being illegal make them more expensive).

A major problem is that after inmates are done serving their sentences, many of them eventually end up back in within a few years. A 1994 analysis by the DOJ tracked the release of former inmates from 15 states for 3 years. For property crimes and illegal weapon crimes, over 70% went back to prison within 3 years. Meanwhile, only 2.5% of released rapists committed another rape and 1.2% of murderers committed another murder. The US government is putting people in jail but it isn't preparing people for life outside of the jail cells.

Another problem seems to be mandatory minimums. In the early 80s, both the state and federal governments enacted many "tough on crime policies" with mandatory minimums being one of them. Three strike laws (after the third felony, the mandatory minimum increases or maybe even life without parole) in particular may be responsible for the rise in incarceration. Another thing that came about in the 1980s were private prisons which then had an incentive to keep more people in jail (they lobby the government for stricter sentences).

Source of pie chart:
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html

In contrast to the US which focuses on punishing criminals to deter crime, Norway focuses on rehabilitating criminals to prepare them for their eventual return to the outside world. In Norway, the incarceration rate is 74 per 100,000, much lower than America's 655 per 100,000. The recidivism rate over 3 years is just 20%.

other sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#Recidivism_rates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
Click to expand...

Your tossing a bunch of "stuff" at the wall there and seeing what sticks but you cant compare a country tiny country has a homogeneous population and lots of natural resources to large one that gets more immigrant in a year than Norway has had in its entire history.

The biggest part of the prison problem is that those who perpetually end up in prison can not be rehabilitated they are already too far gone, they have grown up with the idea that they arent part of the US culture/society and very few minds can be changed by the time they are getting prison sentences
 
Masterhawk said:
By now, plenty of you know that incarceration in the US is a major problem. As of 2015, 655 per 100,000 are incarcerated (the highest rate in the world). In fact, the US has a larger prison population than China, an authoritarian country with a population more than twice as large. As of 2018, 2.3 million people were behind bars in the US.

Here is a pie chart of inmates by their most serious crime:
View attachment 67240378

Decriminalizing drug use is a good start as half of federal prisoners are in for drug offenses but federal prisoners only make up 10% of the total inmate population. Most inmates are state prisoners and about half of those are in for violent crimes, very few for drug possession. Now perhaps the war on drugs is indirectly responsible for increasing violent and property crime by encouraging gang violence and leading people to steal to fund their addiction (drugs being illegal make them more expensive).

A major problem is that after inmates are done serving their sentences, many of them eventually end up back in within a few years. A 1994 analysis by the DOJ tracked the release of former inmates from 15 states for 3 years. For property crimes and illegal weapon crimes, over 70% went back to prison within 3 years. Meanwhile, only 2.5% of released rapists committed another rape and 1.2% of murderers committed another murder. The US government is putting people in jail but it isn't preparing people for life outside of the jail cells.

Another problem seems to be mandatory minimums. In the early 80s, both the state and federal governments enacted many "tough on crime policies" with mandatory minimums being one of them. Three strike laws (after the third felony, the mandatory minimum increases or maybe even life without parole) in particular may be responsible for the rise in incarceration. Another thing that came about in the 1980s were private prisons which then had an incentive to keep more people in jail (they lobby the government for stricter sentences).

Source of pie chart:
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html

In contrast to the US which focuses on punishing criminals to deter crime, Norway focuses on rehabilitating criminals to prepare them for their eventual return to the outside world. In Norway, the incarceration rate is 74 per 100,000, much lower than America's 655 per 100,000. The recidivism rate over 3 years is just 20%.

other sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#Recidivism_rates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
Click to expand...

The one thing you can be sure of is that the USA prison system doesn't work, except for producing excellent Corporate profits with slave labor.
/
 
Crovax said:
Your tossing a bunch of "stuff" at the wall there and seeing what sticks but you cant compare a country tiny country has a homogeneous population and lots of natural resources to large one that gets more immigrant in a year than Norway has had in its entire history.

The biggest part of the prison problem is that those who perpetually end up in prison can not be rehabilitated they are already too far gone, they have grown up with the idea that they arent part of the US culture/society and very few minds can be changed by the time they are getting prison sentences
Click to expand...

Alright then, let's look at Colorado which has roughly the same population as Norway. In 2016, Colorado had an incarceration rate of 580 per 100,000. I don't know how having a homogenous population changes anything. In 2016, Colorado had a homicide rate of 3.7 per 100,000 while Norway had one of only 0.51 per 100,000. I use homicide rate because it's easily available for almost every country.
 
Masterhawk said:
Alright then, let's look at Colorado which has roughly the same population as Norway. In 2016, Colorado had an incarceration rate of 580 per 100,000. I don't know how having a homogenous population changes anything. In 2016, Colorado had a homicide rate of 3.7 per 100,000 while Norway had one of only 0.51 per 100,000. I use homicide rate because it's easily available for almost every country.
Click to expand...

It changes everything. The more you have in common with someone the less chance for conflict.

Just look at difference between the states

Some of the least diverse states

New Hampshire homicide rate 1.3
Maine 1.5
Vermont 2.2

Some of the most diverse states

New Mexico 6.7
Texas 5.3
California 4.9
New Jersey 4.2

Obviously there are other factors such as size and wealth that can contribute but the more similar a population is the better overall they are as far as harmony
 
Crovax said:
Your tossing a bunch of "stuff" at the wall there and seeing what sticks but you cant compare a country tiny country has a homogeneous population and lots of natural resources to large one that gets more immigrant in a year than Norway has had in its entire history.

The biggest part of the prison problem is that those who perpetually end up in prison can not be rehabilitated they are already too far gone, they have grown up with the idea that they arent part of the US culture/society and very few minds can be changed by the time they are getting prison sentences
Click to expand...

The biggest problem with the US prison system is there's way too many people inprisonfor way too long for simple drug offenses. Get rid of that problem and just deal with actual criminals.
 
Grand Mal said:
The biggest problem with the US prison system is there's way too many people inprisonfor way too long for simple drug offenses. Get rid of that problem and just deal with actual criminals.
Click to expand...

First off the OP already debunked that in the 1st post, and 2nd most of the arent "simple" drug offenses they are for dealing drugs and most more than marijuana. These arent just some people who were recreationally doing drugs, they are street criminals that would be committing a vast multitude of other crimes if drugs were legal
 
Crovax said:
First off the OP already debunked that in the 1st post, and 2nd most of the arent "simple" drug offenses they are for dealing drugs and most more than marijuana. These arent just some people who were recreationally doing drugs, they are street criminals that would be committing a vast multitude of other crimes if drugs were legal
Click to expand...

There's peopledoing life for pot. No guns, no violence, just pot Life.

https://www.lifeforpot.com
 
Having people on death row for over a decade, doesn't help the numbers.
 
Crovax said:
literally 46 people
Click to expand...

That's an example of how extreme the situation is. Literally thousands of people are doing literally years for simple possession.
Know what happened in Holland? They stopped jailing people for simple possession. Next thing you know they're taking in prisoners from Belgium on a contract basis to fill their empty cells.
 
Grand Mal said:
That's an example of how extreme the situation is. Literally thousands of people are doing literally years for simple possession.
Know what happened in Holland? They stopped jailing people for simple possession. Next thing you know they're taking in prisoners from Belgium on a contract basis to fill their empty cells.
Click to expand...

Again that has already been debunked in the OP. I’ll add that less than 1% of people in federal prisons are in for marijuana possession
 
Crovax said:
Again that has already been debunked in the OP. I’ll add that less than 1% of people in federal prisons are in for marijuana possession
Click to expand...

The OP says half the people in prison are in for drug offenses.
You're jailing too many people for too long. Isn't that obvious?
 
Grand Mal said:
The OP says half the people in prison are in for drug offenses.
You're jailing too many people for too long. Isn't that obvious?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should read it again

Decriminalizing drug use is a good start as half of federal prisoners are in for drug offenses but federal prisoners only make up 10% of the total inmate population. Most inmates are state prisoners and about half of those are in for violent crimes, very few for drug possession.
Click to expand...
 
Prison population Population per 100,000 Jail occupancy level % Un-sentenced prisoners % Women prisoners %
US 2,193,798 737 107.6 21.2 8.9
CHINA 1,548,498 118 N/A N/A 4.6
RUSSIA 874,161 615 79.5 16.9 6.8
BRAZIL 371,482 193 150.9 33.1 5.4
INDIA 332,112 30 139 70.1 3.7
MEXICO 214,450 196 133.9 43.2 5
UKRAINE 162,602 350 101.3 19.5 6.1
SOUTH AFRICA 158,501 334 138.6 27.5 2.1
POLAND 89,546 235 124.4 16.8 3
ENGLAND/WALES 80,002 148 112.7 16.4 5.5
JAPAN 79,052 62 105.9 14.7 5.9
KENYA 47,036 130 284.3 45.6 42
TURKEY 65,458 91 77.4 47.7 3.3
NIGERIA 40,444 30 101.5 64.3 1.9
AUSTRALIA 25,790 125 105.9 21.6 7.1
SCOTLAND 6,872 134 107.5 21 4.4
N IRELAND 1,375 79 91.5 37.4 2.2
SOURCE: International Centre for Prison Studies

BBC NEWS | In Depth
 
Crovax said:
Maybe you should read it again
Click to expand...

Incarceration rate per 100,000...

US- 737
China- 118
Russia- 615

Let's lookat countries where a lot of, ahem, diversities live.

South Africa- 334
Kenya- 130
Nigeria- 30
 
Grand Mal said:
Incarceration rate per 100,000...

US- 737
China- 118
Russia- 615

Let's lookat countries where a lot of, ahem, diversities live.

South Africa- 334
Kenya- 130
Nigeria- 30
Click to expand...

Africa, the model of judicial ethics
 
Crovax said:
It changes everything. The more you have in common with someone the less chance for conflict.

Just look at difference between the states

Some of the least diverse states

New Hampshire homicide rate 1.3
Maine 1.5
Vermont 2.2

Some of the most diverse states

New Mexico 6.7
Texas 5.3
California 4.9
New Jersey 4.2

Obviously there are other factors such as size and wealth that can contribute but the more similar a population is the better overall they are as far as harmony
Click to expand...

In Chicago's bad neighborhoods, almost the entire population is black. Yet they are largely responsible for Chicago's high crime rate. Meanwhile, New York City, one of the most diverse major cities in the US, has a low crime rate when compared to other major cities.
 
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