Should men tip in venues with scantily clad women?

https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/325320-every-woman-whos-been-groped-6.html

The above post really got me thinking. I thank the poster of the OP to lead me to consider this in advance. It makes me want to be annoyed instead of aroused when going into a North American restaurant with scantily clad women. Apparently, the idea is that men should feel SOOOO privileged just to look at such a goddess that he should pony up generous tips and touching should not even enter his mind. Well, so that there is no misunderstanding, I encourage men NOT to tip in such establishments. Of course not even patronizing them in the first place is a good option too.

So, no matter how good the food service, and no matter how good the waitress's personality, and no matter how pleasant she is to look at in her skimpy clothes which are not all the comfortable for her .....


she doesn't deserve a tip if the man's not allowed to grope her in addition to all of that.



Yeah ... you really don't get it.

You have made it clear that you don't get it. And that you have a medical reason for not getting it.



So this is just one more confirmation that you don't get it and that anyone near you should proceed with caution.


I hope you don't do anything to end up in jail.

SDET said:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/325320-every-woman-whos-been-groped-6.html

The above post really got me thinking. I thank the poster of the OP to lead me to consider this in advance. It makes me want to be annoyed instead of aroused when going into a North American restaurant with scantily clad women. Apparently, the idea is that men should feel SOOOO privileged just to look at such a goddess that he should pony up generous tips and touching should not even enter his mind. Well, so that there is no misunderstanding, I encourage men NOT to tip in such establishments. Of course not even patronizing them in the first place is a good option too.

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You should tip your servers whether they are men or women, scantily clad or not. It's the right thing to do.

SDET said:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/325320-every-woman-whos-been-groped-6.html

The above post really got me thinking. I thank the poster of the OP to lead me to consider this in advance. It makes me want to be annoyed instead of aroused when going into a North American restaurant with scantily clad women. Apparently, the idea is that men should feel SOOOO privileged just to look at such a goddess that he should pony up generous tips and touching should not even enter his mind. Well, so that there is no misunderstanding, I encourage men NOT to tip in such establishments. Of course not even patronizing them in the first place is a good option too.

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Women willing to compromise their virtue and/or dignity to display themselves and/or participate in sexually loaded scenarios and men who encourage/patronize them for their own entertainment/enjoyment have existed at least since Biblical times. Sometimes it is legalized. Sometimes not. But if we believe in liberty, the existence of these kinds of things should be allowed where people want them. Prostitution, nude and semi-nude dancing, Playboy clubs, Hooters, adult book stores, soft and hard core pornography in magazines, books, entertainment etc. will never be entirely banned in a free country. Some regard it as normal and harmless pleasure.

Communities/societies that don't want them for whatever reasons should not be required to have them, however, as realistically the same kinds of things can also result in degrading women/people, can be addictive, can result in human trafficking, sexually transmitted diseases, child abuse and adult abuse, etc. etc. etc.

While I and my own family/social group do not patronize sexually provocative/loaded businesses so far as I know, I try not to judge those who do unless they are contributing or promoting or tolerating activities that are genuinely dangerous, harmful, indefensible. And I try not to judge those who speak out against that stuff as more harmful than harmless because their point of view is not baseless.

Amelia said:

So, no matter how good the food service, and no matter how good the waitress's personality, and no matter how pleasant she is to look at in her skimpy clothes which are not all the comfortable for her .....


she doesn't deserve a tip if the man's not allowed to grope her in addition to all of that.



Yeah ... you really don't get it.

You have made it clear that you don't get it. And that you have a medical reason for not getting it.



So this is just one more confirmation that you don't get it and that anyone near you should proceed with caution.


I hope you don't do anything to end up in jail.

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Staying out of jail is easy. Read the law. Don't violate the law. It has the added benefit of thinking of ways to sue/prosecute people that don't occur to most people when they cross you. When my mom was still alive her biggest worry was getting a phone call from a US embassy abroad discussing what to do with my body. I risk death, but not arrest. I remember discussing my challenges with authorities when I visited Cuba. The result was I could tell that I was being watched. On several occasions, people popped up from nowhere saying "You might want to re-think what you're about to do".

SDET said:

Staying out of jail is easy. Read the law. Don't violate the law. It has the added benefit of thinking of ways to sue/prosecute people that don't occur to most people when they cross you. When my mom was still alive her biggest worry was getting a phone call from a US embassy abroad discussing what to do with my body. I risk death, but not arrest. I remember discussing my challenges with authorities when I visited Cuba. The result was I could tell that I was being watched. On several occasions, people popped up from nowhere saying "You might want to re-think what you're about to do".

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Well, good for you.

But it's still very sad that you think that good service, good personality and attractive appearance aren't enough to earn a woman a tip.

That she should have to put up with being groped before she earns that.



It's sad that women have to live in a world with men who think that way. We do have to live in that world. We learn early on how to navigate in it. But it's still sad that we have to.



Yes, good service, good personality and attractive appearance should be enough to earn a tip.

Amelia said:

Well, good for you.

But it's still very sad that you think that good service, good personality and attractive appearance aren't enough to earn a woman a tip.

That she should have to put up with being groped before she earns that.



It's sad that women have to live in a world with men who think that way. We do have to live in that world. We learn early on how to navigate in it. But it's still sad that we have to.



Yes, good service, good personality and attractive appearance should be enough to earn a tip.

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Being frustrated or teased does not make for a good dining experience. Furthermore, the food in such as place is just adequate. Compare the food at Twin Peaks with that of Ruby Tuesday. Ruby Tuesday wins hands down. Furthermore, a guy can focus on enjoying the food because he is not being distracted. When a guy spends money, enjoy is the key word. Seeing a scantily clad chick at an establishment is like entering a restaurant where you pay to smell the aroma of the food, but you're not allowed to eat. Include me out.

SDET said:

Being frustrated or teased does not make for a good dining experience. Furthermore, the food in such as place is just adequate. Compare the food at Twin Peaks with that of Ruby Tuesday. Ruby Tuesday wins hands down. Furthermore, a guy can focus on enjoying the food because he is not being distracted. When a guy spends money, enjoy is the key word. Seeing a scantily clad chick at an establishment is like entering a restaurant where you pay to smell the aroma of the food, but you're not allowed to eat. Include me out.

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Good. Don't go.

The man chose to go to that establishment. If the waitress is polite and helpful in serving the adequate food, she has earned her tip. She does not have to submit to sexual battery to earn that tip.

The scantily-clad women who bring you food in restraurants are called waitresses. You give them tip-money for bringing you food. You are not allowed to touch them.

The scantily-clad women who dance on poles in strip clubs are called dancers. You give them tip-money for singling you out for special attention. You are not allowed to touch them.

The scantily-clad women you pay for letting you touch them are called prostitutes. You negotiate the price for their services in advance, and you are not expected to tip them.

I hope this clears things up for you.

SDET said:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/325320-every-woman-whos-been-groped-6.html

The above post really got me thinking. I thank the poster of the OP to lead me to consider this in advance. It makes me want to be annoyed instead of aroused when going into a North American restaurant with scantily clad women. Apparently, the idea is that men should feel SOOOO privileged just to look at such a goddess that he should pony up generous tips and touching should not even enter his mind. Well, so that there is no misunderstanding, I encourage men NOT to tip in such establishments. Of course not even patronizing them in the first place is a good option too.

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Exactly. So dont eat there.

SDET said:

Being frustrated or teased does not make for a good dining experience. Furthermore, the food in such as place is just adequate. Compare the food at Twin Peaks with that of Ruby Tuesday. Ruby Tuesday wins hands down. Furthermore, a guy can focus on enjoying the food because he is not being distracted. When a guy spends money, enjoy is the key word. Seeing a scantily clad chick at an establishment is like entering a restaurant where you pay to smell the aroma of the food, but you're not allowed to eat. Include me out.

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Again, there is zero need for you to complain. Dont eat there. If you know the food is 'just adequate' and are unable to focus on enjoying the food, why would you go there?

This is just some excuse to belittle. Are you suggesting there should be laws preventing such establishments? You know, laws restricting businesses and personal liberty? If not, what is your point?

Lursa said:

Again, there is zero need for you to complain. Dont eat there. If you know the food is 'just adequate' and are unable to focus on enjoying the food, why would you go there?

This is just some excuse to belittle. Are you suggesting there should be laws preventing such establishments? You know, laws restricting businesses and personal liberty? If not, what is your point?

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Having fake go-go dancers is wrong unless there's signage indicating that they are fake. If some waitress gets a pat on the bottom it's at least partially the restaurant's fault for leaving an impression that some might construe that giving a waitress a pat on the fanny is ok. I think a waitress could sue the employer for creating an impression that could result in a hostile work environment. An uncivil tart could file a civil tort to make sure harassment doesn't happen. That goes double if they serve alcohol, which would impair a customer's judgement.

SDET said:

Having fake go-go dancers is wrong unless there's signage indicating that they are fake. If some waitress gets a pat on the bottom it's at least partially the restaurant's fault for leaving an impression that some might construe that giving a waitress a pat on the fanny is ok. I think a waitress could sue the employer for creating an impression that could result in a hostile work environment. An uncivil tart could file a civil tort to make sure harassment doesn't happen. That goes double if they serve alcohol, which would impair a customer's judgement.

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Wow, since when is it ok to touch women except when explicitly stated by the establishment?

You are demonstrating the perfect example of..."it's always been ok to give a little pat on the butt...especially when she's dressed like that." A woman can "dress like that" anytime she wants and a man has no right to touch her. She's not 'asking for it.'

This is a perfect example of many conversations when the MeToo# discussions were going on.

It's NEVER ok to do that, nor should you assume anything about your entitlements towards a woman unless expressly stated. Strip joints, dance clubs, are not hiding their identities and purposes. They make the rules very clear. Because there ARE alot of rules.

If man cant control his hands in a restaurant, drinking or otherwise, then that man needed to learn some respect and self-control a long long time before.

Lursa said:

Wow, since when is it ok to touch women except when explicitly stated by the establishment?

You are demonstrating the perfect example of..."it's always been ok to give a little pat on the butt...especially when she's dressed like that." A woman can "dress like that" anytime she wants and a man has no right to touch her. She's not 'asking for it.'

This is a perfect example of many conversations when the MeToo# discussions were going on.

It's NEVER ok to do that, nor should you assume anything about your entitlements towards a woman unless expressly stated. Strip joints, dance clubs, are not hiding their identities and purposes. They make the rules very clear. Because there ARE alot of rules.

If man cant control his hands in a restaurant, drinking or otherwise, then that man needed to learn some respect and self-control a long long time before.

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If nothing is assumed about such entitlements and there's a quid-pro-quo discussion, that runs afoul of prostitution laws. What's unacceptable is leaving the impression that spending money buys certain privileges then not getting such privileges. That's fraudulent behavior.

SDET said:

If nothing is assumed about such entitlements and there's a quid-pro-quo discussion, that runs afoul of prostitution laws.

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How so?

Is there not a discussion between prostitute and john?

And strip joints make it very clear what's allowed and what is not, correct?

Lursa said:

How so?

Is there not a discussion between prostitute and john?

And strip joints make it very clear what's allowed and what is not, correct?

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Some men could confuse fake go-go dancers for a strip club, especially if alcohol is involved.

SDET said:

Some men could confuse fake go-go dancers for a strip club, especially if alcohol is involved.

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It is ANY person's responsibility to control themselves while drinking, while in public, period.

When you go to a public place, you are expected to follow the rules. A restaurant is a restaurant...there are many themed restaurants. Certainly, if there is a question, the assumption shouldnt be, *I'll just grab her.*

A man that cant be bothered to determine the difference when he goes somewhere, heis still responsible for his actions, responsible for finding out. If he doesnt, he gets consequences. Restaurants dont hide their identities. Neither do strip clubs.

Once again, you try to make men look like victims.

The male entitlement here seems to be, "it's not fair that women make me feel that way. THEY should change their behavior to suit me." Example: "women should wear burkhas so I dont have to feel horny and control myself."

Lursa said:

It is ANY person's responsibility to control themselves while drinking, while in public, period.

When you go to a public place, you are expected to follow the rules. A restaurant is a restaurant...there are many themed restaurants. Certainly, if there is a question, the assumption shouldnt be, *I'll just grab her.*

A man that cant be bothered to determine the difference when he goes somewhere, heis still responsible for his actions, responsible for finding out. If he doesnt, he gets consequences. Restaurants dont hide their identities. Neither do strip clubs.

Once again, you try to make men look like victims.

The male entitlement here seems to be, "it's not fair that women make me feel that way. THEY should change their behavior to suit me." Example: "women should wear burkhas so I dont have to feel horny and control myself."

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Hence, the premise of my OP. Too many guys throw money away because a women uses her body to arouse men into giving unusual tips. Women want the part of the arousal that benefits them, but go ballistic about any other aspects of that arousal. I question the judgement of men that allow this to happen. Riding on buses in South America has conditioned me otherwise. Some chick was trying to rub her breasts against me on a bus. I YELLED at her: "Get away from me you slimy pickpocket."

SDET said:

Some men could confuse fake go-go dancers for a strip club, especially if alcohol is involved.

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But even in the vast majority of stripclubs if you touch the girls without permission you will be shown the door. In some states you can pay for private dances in which touching IS allowed, but in that case you are specifically paying for that privilege which also indicates consent on the dancer’s part.

SDET said:

Hence, the premise of my OP. Too many guys throw money away because a women uses her body to arouse men into giving unusual tips. I question the judgement of men that allow this to happen. "

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I was just thinking the same thing, but didnt want to write it. THanks.

How stupid it sounds when you write it out, eh? Entire restaurant chains and coffee stands are built on that knowledge. As are, of course the strip and dance clubs.

If a man decides he's getting his $ worth in any of those places, by looking, or touching where allowed...fine. There should be no complaints. Nobody's forcing men to go there.

But certainly no claims of unfairness or victimization.

Skeptic Bob said:

But even in the vast majority of stripclubs if you touch the girls without permission you will be shown the door. In some states you can pay for private dances in which touching IS allowed, but in that case you are specifically paying for that privilege which also indicates consent on the dancer’s part.

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The whole deal is one big ripoff.

SDET said:

The whole deal is one big ripoff.

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Depends on what you are expecting to get. My friends and I almost always felt we got our money’s worth when we went to them. But we also weren’t expecting to get laid when we went, though I’m not going to say it never happened.