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How important is it to respect the police?

How important is it for the cops to respect civilians? I dont think they even have to have 50% respect sometimes sometimes they can have 0% respect and get away with it.

 
Peter King said:


Is this a valid use of tasering? Now I am not saying was the arrest valid, that is up to a court, but the man surrendered, hands above head, knelt, did all the right things but still he was tased for "pulling away" and then some while he was down on the ground, still handcuffed.

But the video shows no evidence of him pulling away that I could see and then, they had 3 officers around him at all times, he was in cuffs and was not going anywhere nor did he attempt to do anything but still he was tased. I am not satisfied this is a fair use of the taser.
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If the cops lie by omission and say "we had to engage a use of force protocol" then the suspect instant gets charged with resisting arrest. Without proof.
 
Peter King said:
So what? People are rude, cops are rude, does not automatically excuse excessive violence. And the most stupid things I ever hear is police officers who are beating someone around the head to stop resisting. Every person who is hit in the head tries to protect his head from the blows. To demand people to do things that are leaving them incredibly vulnerable to attacks is not really a logical order to give from a police officer. Now if someone is having their arms forced behind their back it is mostly proper to tell people to stop resisting, when however they are already under physical attack from the police it is not a logical order.

Also, if three police officers cannot hold a tiny female under control to put on the handcuffs, they are not fit for purpose. Choking or beating someone around the head is not a proper tactic or tool to have people stop resisting. If someone fears for their life they resist. It is almost an automatic reaction of people when assaulted to resist and save their life.

Choking out suspects, beating them with batons to the legs, being beaten with fists to the head, would you not try and protect yourself from further harm?

From what I have seen from a lot of videos, is that some US police officers have terrible conflict resolution skills and often make cases that could have been solved peacefully into a violent altercation.

Training and other ways of fining people, there is no need to always arrest people and book them for stupid offenses like jay walking, speeding, broken taillight. Because sadly that causes too many people to have to sit in jail for hours or days/months if they cannot afford bail. Just fine people, give them a ticket, no need to sign it and let them leave. If they want to contest the ticket that is possible but that makes the officers life a whole lot easier, keeps police officers on the street instead of going to the station and filling out paperwork for a jaywalker/speeding driver.

A good police officer can decompress a situation in which there is no need for violence, bad officers are unable to do that.

And give people proper commands, have one person give orders, not have one officer shout "don't move or I will ****ing shoot you" while the other one shouts "get out of the car or I will shoot you". That is not a situation that is safe for either officer or the suspect.

Most police officers are pretty decent people, sadly a good number of them are not or else they would not have to be paying out hundreds of thousands to the victims of police brutality or to the family of someone killed by the police.
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Technically if 3 men are on top of a woman and punching her in the head you have a right to shoot them. Regardless of what they are wearing. Any one of those hits can hit her in the temple. Bust her eye out and pop it. Break her jaw. Crush her neck. Collapse her sinus. AKA kill her.

There is a reason why reffs stop the fight in MMA when a guy has another man pinned down and punching him in the face. You do not hit people that cant defend themselves.

These cops are lucky society is forgiving and meek.
 
I think a lot of confrontations start with the officers behavior.

I've seen it a LOT.

They treat people like child molesters before they have any idea what's actually going on. Talk to people like they would never accept being talked to themselves. Rude, bullying.

And its rarely necessary. They just lead with it.

Then get really pissy if folks show the slightest annoyance or exasperation at how they are being treated.

There's lots of reasons it has become this way, but it really is police culture and it needs to change.

I should not have to warn adolescent males to be careful around cops lest their youthful exuberance get them beaten or killed.
 
I suppose the answer to the OP is “it depends...how important is it that you not get your ass kicked by cops or get treated unjustly?”

Look...there are 1.6 MILLION contacts between law enforcement and civilians every year. An infinitesimally small number and percentage of those contacts end up like the video presented though those DO happen. SOMETIMES...they happen because a bad cop does bad things. When that happens it should be identified and dealt with...even if that means charges. SOMETIMES bad things happen because the civilian is hell bent on telling the cops about their ‘rights or being a dick. Those are usually preventable. But the VAST a majority of ALL contacts with law enforcement regardless of gender or race ends up peacefully, positively...with no problems.

So what do you want? Act accordingly.


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VanceMack said:
I suppose the answer to the OP is “it depends...how important is it that you not get your ass kicked by cops or get treated unjustly?”

Look...there are 1.6 MILLION contacts between law enforcement and civilians every year. An infinitesimally small number and percentage of those contacts end up like the video presented though those DO happen. SOMETIMES...they happen because a bad cop does bad things. When that happens it should be identified and dealt with...even if that means charges. SOMETIMES bad things happen because the civilian is hell bent on telling the cops about their ‘rights or being a dick. Those are usually preventable. But the VAST a majority of ALL contacts with law enforcement regardless of gender or race ends up peacefully, positively...with no problems.

So what do you want? Act accordingly.


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but being a dick as someone who is confronted by the police is something good officers can defuse by using good communication skills and de-escalation skills. I think the average officer does not get nearly enough training in that.
 
Peter King said:
but being a dick as someone who is confronted by the police is something good officers can defuse by using good communication skills and de-escalation skills. I think the average officer does not get nearly enough training in that.
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You bet...and nothing justifies bad behavior by cops.

Point remains the same.
 
Question...

" Should the police just leave the citizen alone if he/she fails to comply? "
No...
If he/she doesn't comply they will take a trip downtown.
If they pull a " Smokey and the Bandit " and speed off dragging the officer,he/she the officer has the right to defend themselves at any means.
If you have the BLM shenanigans being rowdy and destructive,it's time to move them out.
Bottom line it's up to the culprits to comply and call it a day or physically resist and call it ten years.
If he/she/it doesn't drop the weapon and continually threaten to shot at the police...well...
I have to hand it to the pedophiles and perverts possessing child and or black gay porn,they are smart enough to go peacefully knowing they may get out in good behavior. Of course they'll be caught at it again.
I say " comply and stay alive".
 
JC Callender said:
How important is it to respect the police, meaning following orders and treating them with decency? I often see videos of people allegedly mistreated by the police and it often starts with the citizen being rude and/or refusing to follow orders. And then I see a huge outcry of people defending them. Should the police just leave the citizen alone if he/she fails to comply?

Btw, I think it's extremely important for the police to respect citizens.
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First of all, I don't consider "following orders" to have anything to do with respect. It's the law. You comply or you go to jail.

Second, being disrespectful...being rude, etc...is not a smart thing to do. It ensures that the police WON'T give you the benefit of the doubt.

Third, you don't have to "respect" the police, but if you can't, the best attitude is to be neutral toward them. That is, follow orders and keep your mouth shut except to answer their questions.

Now me...I ALWAYS follow orders, I NEVER mouth off. But then, I also respect the police. I'm glad they do their job.
 


Was the man stupid for failing to stop? Yes, but he was black and that sadly is not always a good mix with police (as evidence has shown). Going to his mom's house was not smart. No, it was a bit stupid but then again nobody said he was smart. Was kicking down the door to arrest someone failing to stop at a stop sign really valid? Legally maybe, but morally I find it dubious to use that much violence and tasering (when from another body angle they guy seems to comply) but all of that is nothing when one looks at the issue most reprehensible.

Now if someone is a danger to the police it is OK to order someone around that is a danger to you, sure, but this is an 84 year old and not that much of a threat to the whole crowd of police officers that rammed down her door, tased her son and then peppersprayed her in the face and then threw her to the ground to cuff her.

Sorry, but that is just wrong IMHO.
 
Peter King said:


Was the man stupid for failing to stop? Yes, but he was black and that sadly is not always a good mix with police (as evidence has shown). Going to his mom's house was not smart. No, it was a bit stupid but then again nobody said he was smart. Was kicking down the door to arrest someone failing to stop at a stop sign really valid? Legally maybe, but morally I find it dubious to use that much violence and tasering (when from another body angle they guy seems to comply) but all of that is nothing when one looks at the issue most reprehensible.

Now if someone is a danger to the police it is OK to order someone around that is a danger to you, sure, but this is an 84 year old and not that much of a threat to the whole crowd of police officers that rammed down her door, tased her son and then peppersprayed her in the face and then threw her to the ground to cuff her.

Sorry, but that is just wrong IMHO.
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I would have a lot less problem with your comments if everything you say wasn’t qualified with race. Was he in the wrong? Yes, but...he was black. Should he have pulled over? Yes, but he was black. Should he have run from the cops? No, but he was black. Should he have run and hid out at his mommas? No, but he was black. Should he have surrendered without incident? Yes, but he was black. Should mom have gotten involved? No, but she was black. So everything is the cops fault because they are racist.

Ta da.


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VanceMack said:
I would have a lot less problem with your comments if everything you say wasn’t qualified with race. Was he in the wrong? Yes, but...he was black. Should he have pulled over? Yes, but he was black. Should he have run from the cops? No, but he was black. Should he have run and hid out at his mommas? No, but he was black. Should he have surrendered without incident? Yes, but he was black. Should mom have gotten involved? No, but she was black. So everything is the cops fault because they are racist.

Ta da.


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1. what a load of lies and hogwash, nonsense, a total and nasty misrepresentation of what I wrote. I used the word black once, when I said it might have been the reason why he fled rather than stop for the police. So the rest of your comment is all down to you and your fake comments.

2. not a word about the cowardly assault on an elderly citizen by the police, just more whining about my using the word black once. Nice try to deflect the issue.

3. Ta Da indeed for your fake racism outrage.
 
Peter King said:


Was the man stupid for failing to stop? Yes, but he was black and that sadly is not always a good mix with police (as evidence has shown). Going to his mom's house was not smart. No, it was a bit stupid but then again nobody said he was smart. Was kicking down the door to arrest someone failing to stop at a stop sign really valid? Legally maybe, but morally I find it dubious to use that much violence and tasering (when from another body angle they guy seems to comply) but all of that is nothing when one looks at the issue most reprehensible.

Now if someone is a danger to the police it is OK to order someone around that is a danger to you, sure, but this is an 84 year old and not that much of a threat to the whole crowd of police officers that rammed down her door, tased her son and then peppersprayed her in the face and then threw her to the ground to cuff her.

Sorry, but that is just wrong IMHO.
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But you dont understand the money generated from that traffic stop ticket IS VERY VERY important to the city.

Theres a phenominon where a 911 dispatch officers hears a person yelling an panic'd on the phone and "hangs up on them for being rude".

I think its because officers get trained "IF SOMEONE GIVES U ATTITUDE EXPECT A PROBLEM" or maybe some are just assholes which is why we need better, perfect body cameras.
 
Peter King said:
1. what a load of lies and hogwash, nonsense, a total and nasty misrepresentation of what I wrote. I used the word black once, when I said it might have been the reason why he fled rather than stop for the police. So the rest of your comment is all down to you and your fake comments.

2. not a word about the cowardly assault on an elderly citizen by the police, just more whining about my using the word black once. Nice try to deflect the issue.

3. Ta Da indeed for your fake racism outrage.
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Everything about your comments scream black and cops.


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Its slowly comming around. An era of police accountability that is trusted by the media.

Already we see more cops already getting in trouble (even though sometimes some dont.... or just get rehired a county down)

But already we are seeing extra charges for cops found extra nefarious of abusing their position (a captian in charge of an entire criminal police unit just got 25 years in prison) Although I would argue he needs 100 years in prison because a cop that is abusing the position to be a criminal on purpose can ruin 100 or 1,000 lives if hes never caught. And being the leader of an entire corrupt unit...... That needs life in prison. (or maybe even death penalty if the unit killed anyone)
 
dirtpoorchris said:
But you dont understand the money generated from that traffic stop ticket IS VERY VERY important to the city.

Theres a phenominon where a 911 dispatch officers hears a person yelling an panic'd on the phone and "hangs up on them for being rude".

I think its because officers get trained "IF SOMEONE GIVES U ATTITUDE EXPECT A PROBLEM" or maybe some are just assholes which is why we need better, perfect body cameras.
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And that is the really sad thing, that government uses tickets and fines to shore up it's finances because they are unwilling to have the people pay enough tax to make the city do all of it's work.
 
VanceMack said:
Everything about your comments scream black and cops.


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Except I just used the word black once, as a reason for possible flight, you know fear.

The rest was just my views on overaggressive police tactics. Here if you don't stop for a sign and they do not catch you, you get the ticket sent to your home address. Pure and simple. No need to bust in a door, tasing and pepperspray use to deal with a failure to stop at a stop sign.
 
Peter King said:
Except I just used the word black once, as a reason for possible flight, you know fear.

The rest was just my views on overaggressive police tactics. Here if you don't stop for a sign and they do not catch you, you get the ticket sent to your home address. Pure and simple. No need to bust in a door, tasing and pepperspray use to deal with a failure to stop at a stop sign.
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Yet you made race the issue with your opening comment. Do you really believe a white perpetrator would have been treated differently?


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