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Effectiveness Of Police Dogs In Sniffing Drugs

Supposedly police dogs are far less accurate in sniffing out drugs than what's commonly believed. Regardless of whether you've got drugs or not, whether or not a police dog smells drugs in your car is about as accurate as a coin toss, so even if you have no drugs the dog might smell drugs or the police might claim the dog smelled drugs. As such, I want dogs banned from police use.

Absolutely wrong. Customs agents will run all sorts of drug tests and tests to detect humans hiding in trucks and they will not detect either. Bring out the dog and in one second the dog is indicating either.
 
I am not really sure what your point is.. You get stopped, A dog comes. give's a positive sign, Cops search, find nothing.. You call them a few choice names and go on your way.

As Gaius46 pointed out in post #15 I don't like having my 4th Amendment right being violated where I have my car searched and myself searched without my consent when the dog incorrectly indicates that I've got drugs or the officer incorrectly claims the dog smelled drugs.
 
Very rare. Sorry but no I have No problem with the law using dogs.

Well I do. Aside from dogs incorrectly indicating that a person has drugs when they don't or for that matter when the officer incorrectly says the dog smelled drugs they've got other problems. There was a case of a woman being attacked by a police dog when she was mistaken for somebody else.
 
if there is nothing in the car, then there is nothing to worry about

That doesn't matter, I don't like having my 4th amendment right violated.

i have been stopped 3-4x over last 25 years or so....twice by a k9 unit
And k9 should be done away with in the police force. They don't need dogs.

one asked if he could search vehicle...i said sure...why not

i wasnt in hurry, and nothing to hide
Bad idea. Even if you've got nothing to hide if the police break or wreck anything of yours during the search they're not held liable since you consented to the search. And just because you choose to not exercise your 4th Amendment right doesn't mean other people choose not to or that they should be expected to choose not to.
 
Just you know, I support the legalization of pot, Nation wide, want hard drugs dealt with in a common sense way, and support ending the forfatur laws due to too common abuse by many law enforcement agencies.

I find it a bit silly that its banned. I don't use pot and I don't recommend it but as far as Im concerned if other people want to use it that's their business.
 
That doesn't matter, I don't like having my 4th amendment right violated.


And k9 should be done away with in the police force. They don't need dogs.


Bad idea. Even if you've got nothing to hide if the police break or wreck anything of yours during the search they're not held liable since you consented to the search. And just because you choose to not exercise your 4th Amendment right doesn't mean other people choose not to or that they should be expected to choose not to.

that was much earlier in my life....and you didnt continue my post

would i consent now? no...

still nothing to hide....but i know more about my rights, and i stand up for them

i have learned a lot in the last 25-30 years....and have a lot of cop friends....we shoot at the range together

but i also understand and want to protect my 4th amendment rights....

so, the officer would have to have probable cause now...
 
You don't see the 4th amendment issue with people being searched because a dog inaccurately signaled that the person possessed drugs?

The 4th Amendment is something most people have never read. Effectively nullified by decades of "the drug exception", and formally by the USA Patriot Act, it has become irrelevant.
 
The 4th Amendment is something most people have never read. Effectively nullified by decades of "the drug exception", and formally by the USA Patriot Act, it has become irrelevant.

While I don't think the 4th has become irrelevant, yet, it is dying the death of a thousand small cuts.
 
Supposedly police dogs are far less accurate in sniffing out drugs than what's commonly believed. Regardless of whether you've got drugs or not, whether or not a police dog smells drugs in your car is about as accurate as a coin toss, so even if you have no drugs the dog might smell drugs or the police might claim the dog smelled drugs. As such, I want dogs banned from police use.

I've always believed that, in terms of using dogs as drug sniffers, it's a form of a search. I realize it was challenged in the SCOTUS and then thrown out, but it always seemed like a search to me. Don't have probable cause to search someone's car? Don't worry, have this dog search the car and if it "hits" on something then we have probable cause. Dogs don't normally run about sniffing for marijuana, you have to train them to do so. In which case, how's it really different than having some electronic device that can test the air around a car to see if it has drugs in it? The dog is specifically trained to search an area the trainer tells it to, and if it gives its trained sign, then good boy and search the car. I find that drug dogs are a violation of the 4th.

The accuracy of them is rather questionable and I have to wonder (and I doubt they keep track of this) what the false-positive rate is. Once a drug dog is "alerted" then cops can proceed as if its a drug case, search, seize money, car, etc. even if drugs aren't found.

In other actions of police duty, dogs may find a more appropriate role, but as drug sniffers...all they do is generate "probable cause". There's nothing reliable about their service in this means.
 
While I don't think the 4th has become irrelevant, yet, it is dying the death of a thousand small cuts.

And when one right goes the rest fall like dominoes.
 
Very rare. Sorry but no I have No problem with the law using dogs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-flip-is-good-enough/?utm_term=.9e9878ed5bf2

In U.S. v. Bentley, we see just how damaging the Harris decision really was. Lex, the drug dog that searched Bentley’s car, had a 93 percent alert rate. That is, when Lex was called to search a car, he alerted 93 percent of the time. He was basically a probable cause generator. His success rate was much lower, at 59 percent. That is, the police actually found drugs just six of the 10 times Lex told them they would. That means that four of every 10 people Lex alerted to were subjected to a thorough roadside search that produced nothing illegal.

So 40% isn't "very rare"

Moreover, the court notes that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit gave its okay to a dog with a success rate of 43 percent, or less accurate than a coin flip.
So 50-57% false positive isn't "very rare".

This even lower number jibes with a 2011 Chicago Tribune investigation of suburban Chicago police dogs that found a success rate of just 44 percent. That review also found that with Latino drivers, the accuracy rate plunged to just 27 percent, more evidence that the dogs are merely reflecting the biases and presuppositions of their handlers. Other studies have shown false positive rates of up to 80 percent.

OK, so 73-80% false-positive isn't "very rare".

It seems that you are talking out of your ass here. That false positive hits are rather frequent in fact, and once drug trafficking is suspected, not only is it more invasive searching, but now the police can seize whatever they want. And once seized, you have a hell of a time getting it back from the police; even if there are no charges. Asset forfeiture is huge business for the government.
 
I've always believed that, in terms of using dogs as drug sniffers, it's a form of a search. I realize it was challenged in the SCOTUS and then thrown out, but it always seemed like a search to me. Don't have probable cause to search someone's car? Don't worry, have this dog search the car and if it "hits" on something then we have probable cause. Dogs don't normally run about sniffing for marijuana, you have to train them to do so. In which case, how's it really different than having some electronic device that can test the air around a car to see if it has drugs in it? The dog is specifically trained to search an area the trainer tells it to, and if it gives its trained sign, then good boy and search the car. I find that drug dogs are a violation of the 4th.

The accuracy of them is rather questionable and I have to wonder (and I doubt they keep track of this) what the false-positive rate is. Once a drug dog is "alerted" then cops can proceed as if its a drug case, search, seize money, car, etc. even if drugs aren't found.

In other actions of police duty, dogs may find a more appropriate role, but as drug sniffers...all they do is generate "probable cause". There's nothing reliable about their service in this means.

I am on the fence with this one. On one hand.. it may lead to more in appropriate searches..

ON the other hand.. it may lead to FEWER in appropriate searches.

Lets face the reality. There aren't enough dogs in a police force that everyone getting say a traffic stop is getting searched by the dog.

So what really happens is that the officer doing say a traffic stop, gets suspicious of a vehicle. Now.. they could and probably do manufacture some probable cause for a search.

but instead.. policy is that they call up the drug dog for a sniff. Dog gives a sniff and comes up negative. Okay sir.. on your way.

Without the dog, that fellow might have been on the side of the road for hours why they did a detailed search.


Now.. a drug dog being taken into school or a neighborhood and generating suspicion? that's another story.

So I think it is less about the dog and more about the policy and how they are used.
 
So I think it is less about the dog and more about the policy and how they are used.

I would say that with false positives anywhere between 40-80% that they aren't being used well. Cops aren't often looking for an accurate hit, they are looking for a hit. Particularly in the world of drug accusation, asset forfeiture becomes a huge thing. Once they have "probable cause", they can do whatever they would like to the property. Rip up the upholstery in your car, seize the car, money, etc. And one cannot get that back with ease, that's for sure.

I think the problem has become that under ideal conditions, proper training in the "classroom" and field, proper handling, etc. a drug dog could accurately search out significant quantities of drugs in cars and other places. But that's the ideal, and the ideal case of limited and accurate "hits" is not the desired case of "probable cause generation". And so even a well trained dog picks up bad habits in the field as the handler looks to reinforce the dog alerting to a car rather than actual searching it.

And in the end, it falls into the same problem in my mind that it is a search. And first and foremost, that is where my objection lies.
 
I would say that with false positives anywhere between 40-80% that they aren't being used well. Cops aren't often looking for an accurate hit, they are looking for a hit. Particularly in the world of drug accusation, asset forfeiture becomes a huge thing. Once they have "probable cause", they can do whatever they would like to the property. Rip up the upholstery in your car, seize the car, money, etc. And one cannot get that back with ease, that's for sure.

I think the problem has become that under ideal conditions, proper training in the "classroom" and field, proper handling, etc. a drug dog could accurately search out significant quantities of drugs in cars and other places. But that's the ideal, and the ideal case of limited and accurate "hits" is not the desired case of "probable cause generation". And so even a well trained dog picks up bad habits in the field as the handler looks to reinforce the dog alerting to a car rather than actual searching it.

And in the end, it falls into the same problem in my mind that it is a search. And first and foremost, that is where my objection lies.

Well just to point out.. from a scientific standpoint.. a false positive rate of 40-80% is not bad IF the test has very few false negatives. then the test has value from a law enforcement standpoint since it will be valuable in catching drugs.

The problem.. just as you say is that they can with probably cause.. rip up your car etc. and yes.. even seize cars and money.. EVEN when they don't find any laws have been broken (which I find absolutely crazy. A buddy's kid got arrested for suspected illegally growing marijuana. Actually he was following state law and local law perfectly.. and they had no case against him. Yet.. they ended up taking 30,000 in grow lights from him and keeping them. Now what is a sheriff going to do with grow lights? )

The problem is as it often is with the police.. is making them accountable to perform to a constitutional standard.. rather than giving the 4th amendment lip service.
 
Actually the police do not need dogs to smell drugs for grounds to search. Many cops claim they smell weed, as an excuse to do an illegal search. Its done a thousand times a day everyday. I for one am pleased to see CA wipe simple cannabis possession charges off folks record.

"Smelling pot" wont be an excuse in any states soon IMO. It's not in several now.

So they'll lose that excuse to search soon.
 
So anyway, this is a bit off topic but I would like to say that I want marijuana to be legalized. As it is, I don't use marijuana and I have no desire to use it but supposedly the Illinois police will put down their dogs if marijuana is legalized. Putting the dogs down might be going too far but at least they should be retired from police work. Particularly in Illinois. I've had a bad experience in Illinois that has to do with police using dogs. Here is the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHkIX69V2U4
 
If police dogs are sniffing drugs isn't that illegal?
 
So anyway, this is a bit off topic but I would like to say that I want marijuana to be legalized. As it is, I don't use marijuana and I have no desire to use it but supposedly the Illinois police will put down their dogs if marijuana is legalized. Putting the dogs down might be going too far but at least they should be retired from police work. Particularly in Illinois. I've had a bad experience in Illinois that has to do with police using dogs. Here is the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHkIX69V2U4

Kill dogs because they can't go after drugs?

You want that?
 
Well I do. Aside from dogs incorrectly indicating that a person has drugs when they don't or for that matter when the officer incorrectly says the dog smelled drugs they've got other problems. There was a case of a woman being attacked by a police dog when she was mistaken for somebody else.

I wonder if they would change their minds if the police came up with murderer sniffing dogs in a capital punishment state. Don't worry sir, our dog gets it right 50% of the time.
 
Kill dogs because they can't go after drugs?

You want that?
No, I just don't want dogs to be retired from the police force and I don't want dogs to be used in police work. K-9 should be done away with.
 
No, I just don't want dogs to be retired from the police force and I don't want dogs to be used in police work. K-9 should be done away with.

There need to be far more K-9 Units, actually...
 
A relative of mine trains cadaver dogs, they are amazing. Sometimes they find the persons still alive. I guess dead bodies are a bit more stinky than live people.
I watched one find a quarter that had been thrown in a small field that the dog had already searched, so the coin was there when he searched the first time. But he had not been given an odor to look for yet..
Then he was told what to look for by having him sniff my hand. He went directly to the coin.
 
Alright, why?

They are effective in a number of capacities... catching bad guys... sniffing out ones that are hiding or got away... sniffing drugs... protecting humans....
 
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