• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mexican Nationals Caught in NY with Enough Drugs to Kill 32 Million People

Carjosse said:
You would shoot down a commercial airliner with passengers on board just to kill two drug dealers?
Click to expand...

Of course I wouldn't...

... the military would...
 
truthatallcost said:
Gun control forum is <------------ way.
Click to expand...

Well now, wait a minute. Drugs are inanimate objects in themselves; cocaine doesn't wait around and then jump up someone's nose, nor does heroin assault the passerby by jumping up and into his veins, right? Yet drugs are illegal; why is that?
 
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Why not "drugs don't kill people, people kill people."




I've never been chased by an angry bag of fentanyl. To overdose, I'd have to ingest it on purpose or have someone slip it into my drink.

Similarly, I've never been chased by an angry gun. To be shot, I'd have to shoot myself or have someone shoot me.






:thinking

I guess it's just different because politics.

(And no, don't cite the existence of the 2nd. That really has nothing to do with the gun mantra)



Anyway, the sooner people realize that the problem won't go away unless the War on Drugs does, and why, it doesn't matter what you threaten to do to traffickers. Righteously calling for the death penalty is just humanity's innate desire for vengeance and impulse to demonstrate that one is better than others by calling for particularly heinous punishments on "bad" people speaking.
 
The majority of drug overdose deaths are a result of legal opiods being misused.

One example
Drug firms shipped 20.8M pain pills to WV town with 2,900 people

Over the past decade, out-of-state drug companies shipped 20.8 million prescription painkillers to two pharmacies four blocks apart in a Southern West Virginia town with 2,900 people, according to a congressional committee investigating the opioid crisis.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee cited the massive shipments of hydrocodone and oxycodone — two powerful painkillers — to the town of Williamson, in Mingo County, amid the panel’s inquiry into the role of drug distributors in the opioid epidemic.
(. . .)
Between 2006 and 2016, drug wholesalers shipped 10.2 million hydrocodone pills and 10.6 million oxycodone pills to Tug Valley Pharmacy and Hurley Drug in Williamson, according to Drug Enforcement Administration data obtained by the House Committee.

Springboro, Ohio-based Miami-Luken sold 6.4 million hydrocodone and oxycodone pills to Tug Valley Pharmacy from 2008 to 2015, the company disclosed to the panel. That’s more than half of all painkillers shipped to the pharmacy those years. In a single year (2008 to 2009), Miami-Luken’s shipments increased three-fold to the Mingo County town.

Miami-Luken also was a major supplier to the now-closed Save-Rite Pharmacy in the Mingo County town of Kermit, population 400.

The drug wholesaler shipped 5.7 million hydrocodone and oxycodone pills to Save-Rite and a branch pharmacy called Sav-Rite #2 between 2005 and 2011, according records Miami-Luken gave the committee. In 2008, the company provided 5,624 prescription pain pills for every man, woman and child in Kermit.
Click to expand...
 
Mr Person said:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Why not "drugs don't kill people, people kill people."
Click to expand...

Because the drug cartels and pharmaceutical companies prey on people, many of them from vulnerable backgrounds, to get rich. Drug dealing is not a victimless crime, I don't care who says it is.

We talk a lot about having a moral obligation to end racism, homophobia, and a whole slew of 'thought crimes', yet no one is addressing the obligation we should have to protect society from the ravages of drug addiction and violence. Solving that problem would do so much more for the poor and minority groups than obsessing about thought crime.


Anyway, the sooner people realize that the problem won't go away unless the War on Drugs does, and why, it doesn't matter what you threaten to do to traffickers.
Click to expand...

Recreational legalization of fentanyl is not the answer.

Righteously calling for the death penalty is just humanity's innate desire for vengeance and impulse to demonstrate that one is better than others by calling for particularly heinous punishments on "bad" people speaking.
Click to expand...

Military action is an appropriate response when you consider that we're losing 60k young Americans a year, so that these people can get rich. We're also losing 15,000 Americans per year to homicides, most of which are a direct or indirect result of the drug problem.

Americans will riot when a police officer shoots 1 person of a certain minority group, and yawn at 75,000 dead Americans who died because of the drug trade.
 
truthatallcost said:
Because the drug cartels and pharmaceutical companies prey on people, many of them from vulnerable backgrounds, to get rich. Drug dealing is not a victimless crime, I don't care who says it is.

We talk a lot about having a moral obligation to end racism, homophobia, and a whole slew of 'thought crimes', yet no one is addressing the obligation we should have to protect society from the ravages of drug addiction and violence. Solving that problem would do so much more for the poor and minority groups than obsessing about thought crime.




Recreational legalization of fentanyl is not the answer.



Military action is an appropriate response when you consider that we're losing 60k young Americans a year, so that these people can get rich. We're also losing 15,000 Americans per year to homicides, most of which are a direct or indirect result of the drug problem.

Americans will riot when a police officer shoots 1 person of a certain minority group, and yawn at 75,000 dead Americans who died because of the drug trade.
Click to expand...

Because taking drugs is a choice... being gunned down by a cop is not.
 
truthatallcost said:
Recreational legalization of fentanyl is not the answer.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was. I said the War on Drugs is not the answer.

I recommend Switzerland's model. Decriminalization for personal use, criminal penalties for dealing of that kind of drug, BUT have injection clinics where one goes to declare themselves an addict, gets a measured pure dose, leaves. Over time, many quit. But if we care about harm reduction rather than proving how righteous we all are and how much God loves us, that's what you do.

Nobody goes and fills that paperwork out just to "try" it.



Nevermind that heroin addicts almost always don't want fentanyl. They don't want to die. They want heroin, but they get other crap and if they don't shoot it they'll be rolling and puking and screaming and hallucinating and every single bone will feel like it's been freshly shattered for days. So they do what they have to do.

I'm not into the blame game. It's their fault but I'm not into telling them that, shaming them. I'm into reducing harm.

:shrug:
 
truthatallcost said:
Military action is an appropriate response when you consider that we're losing 60k young Americans a year, so that these people can get rich. We're also losing 15,000 Americans per year to homicides, most of which are a direct or indirect result of the drug problem
Click to expand...

Know how many we're losing to legal tobacco?



Clue: A ****load more.
 
truthatallcost said:
My proposal is to call our troops back from Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, and have them fight the drug cartels until they no longer exist.
Click to expand...
So basically, you want to... invade Mexico and China?

You do know that the largest source of fentanyl is actually China, not Mexico. Right?

Yep, that's right, most of the fentanyl is currently made in China. Mexico is just a pit stop for distribution. Meaning that even if we actually killed off every cartel in Mexico, the distribution would change. Maybe it'd come in via Canada, or the Caribbean, or directly from China.

Plus, you do know that fentanyl is synthetic, and can be made pretty much anywhere, including inside the US. Right?

The reality is that we've spent decades attacking the supply side, and it doesn't work. As long as there is a demand, someone somewhere is going to figure out how to satisfy it.


We also have to deal with the pharmaceutical companies in a much more serious way. Big pharma execs who deliberately profit from addiction should be imprisoned.
Click to expand...
Oh, really?

How is that going to work? Do we just ban all opioids, despite their legitimate (and often critical) medicinal uses? What qualifies as "deliberate profit?"

Oh, and you do know that illicit drug use is fairly consistent over the past ~20 years. (The real issue is that illegal synthetics are so powerful and poorly measured that overdose and fatality rates, not usage rates, are rising.) Meaning that the ultimate cause of the issue probably isn't abusive actions by the pharma companies. Right?


My ideas would eliminate overdose deaths in a year or two. Politicians and the public don't have the stomach to solve the problem unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Your ideas are fantasies that are completely unworkable in the real world, and even if they were somehow able to be put into effect, would utterly fail.

All your suggestions would do is increase the cost of opiates, which actually favors fentanyl production -- because it is incredibly potent and relatively cheap compared to most other opiates. It could even drive dealers to even more potent opiates like carfentanil.

I.e. don't give up the day job to become the next US Drug Czar.
 
Mr Person said:
I didn't say it was. I said the War on Drugs is not the answer.

I recommend Switzerland's model. Decriminalization for personal use, criminal penalties for dealing of that kind of drug, BUT have injection clinics where one goes to declare themselves an addict, gets a measured pure dose, leaves. Over time, many quit. But if we care about harm reduction rather than proving how righteous we all are and how much God loves us, that's what you do.

Nobody goes and fills that paperwork out just to "try" it.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do care about harm reduction and would like to see some of those measures tried. But in the meantime, how about getting ****ing serious about ending the cartels once and for all? You know, as we talk about the negatives effects of drugs in America, there are more addicts than ever before in Mexico. The cartels' abundance of cheap crack, Meth and heroin has caught on in Mexico, proving that Americans aren't just a bunch of junk buckets, while others don't struggle with drugs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...c-is-now-hitting-home/?utm_term=.ddf2a3f65f75

And even though Mexico has half the population size of America, they had 24,000 murders last year, mostly the result of the cartels.

I know for a fact that fathers and mothers in Mexico pray every day for the cartel's influence over their country to end. You mock Christians all you want, but don't mock their faith, its all many of them have.

Nevermind that heroin addicts almost always don't want fentanyl. They don't want to die. They want heroin, but they get other crap and if they don't shoot it they'll be rolling and puking and screaming and hallucinating and every single bone will feel like it's been freshly shattered for days. So they do what they have to do.

I'm not into the blame game. It's their fault but I'm not into telling them that, shaming them. I'm into reducing harm.

:shrug:
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that. Giving them methadone isn't the answer either. OK, let's give them grade A government smack, and send our military to deal with the cartels. Deal? Let's make this a bipartisan agreement.
 
truthatallcost said:
In all but a very tiny few cases, it is a choice.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Yeah? So most are tied to chairs and forcefully injected with drugs? Guns held to head... "SNORT THAT COKE OR DIE!!"

Dude... you are a crack up with this bull ****...
 
Bodhisattva said:
:lol:

Yeah? So most are tied to chairs and forcefully injected with drugs? Guns held to head... "SNORT THAT COKE OR DIE!!"

Dude... you are a crack up with this bull ****...
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to drug use.
 
holbritter said:
What we should do, is put people who do this is jail for life. No plea bargains, no early release, no parole. That's a tough stance, not the crap we hand out now.
Click to expand...


Ah yes, that dumb policy of just throwing people in prison, that works so well. No rehabilitation, no funding of support for drug users. Throw them in jail and ensure they can never get a job. Because that's worked so well for the past 50 years.

Still the same drug use today, with all these people rotting in prison.

I watched a Bill Hicks special (comedian if you don't know) and one part he was talking about the war on drugs and he mentioned that drug users are winning the war. The war on drugs can't even defeat people high on drugs. It was hysterical, and very fitting to this thread

 
Last edited:
Lord Tammerlain said:
Meaning if one did not believe you were trolling, one would have to think you were a psychopath
Click to expand...

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one.

32 million or one plane full?
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Ah yes, that dumb policy of just throwing people in prison, that works so well. No rehabilitation, no funding of support for drug users. Throw them in jail and ensure they can never get a job. Because that's worked so well for the past 50 years.

Still the same drug use today, with all these people rotting in prison.

I watched a Bill Hicks special (comedian if you don't know) and one part he was talking about the war on drugs and he mentioned that drug users are winning the war. The war on drugs can't even defeat people high on drugs. It was hysterical, and very fitting to this thread

[vide]
Click to expand...

Yes. Comedians... that is where I go to when thinking of policy decisions.
 
WCH said:
Build a wall, virtually and otherwise.

These people are nothing more than terrorists with a different type weapon and no ideology.

Plus most are in this country illegally. Having law enforcement actually impose their will against these foreign invaders goes a long way.
Click to expand...

These people flew in to New York.

I don't think a southern wall would have helped.

The fact that they had passports and visas means they had money in the bank and own real property.

They royally screwed up, although it might have been their choice.
 
Mason66 said:
These people flew in to New York.

I don't think a southern wall would have helped.

The fact that they had passports and visas means they had money in the bank and own real property.

They royally screwed up, although it might have been their choice.
Click to expand...

The virtual aspect of the wall would have helped identify them before they came here. At least in theory.
 
Mason66 said:
These people flew in to New York.

I don't think a southern wall would have helped.

The fact that they had passports and visas means they had money in the bank and own real property.

They royally screwed up, although it might have been their choice.
Click to expand...

The southern wall will have surface to air missiles as well... :roll:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom