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Lenient laws and penaltys for drunk driving?

Bum

Bum

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Okay....first, I am not a legal eagle; not a lawyer, judge, or legislator.

This thread is more of an inquiry than anything, but if this isn't the appropriate location, then Mods, please move it.

Drunk driving is, without a doubt, a killer.....so why does there seem to be a weak patchwork system of laws and penalties?

I a unfamiliar with all the laws in all states, so perhaps those with a legal background can help shed some light on this for me.

Driver on third DUI who killed Afghanistan vet gets 6-month jail term | Fox News

Third DUI which results in a death.....why only 6 months?
Why am I reading about people with 5,10, and 15 DUI arrests? After the first few DUI arrests, it seems that it is very apparent that these people have NO desire to change, and will continue to put people at risk through their actions.

What are we doing wrong in the Justice system? Do we need a 3 strike law for DUI's? mandatory minimum time in jail?
Do we have a 3 strike policy in any of the states? Minimum jail time anywhere?

Does anyone know?
 
Polar Bum said:
Okay....first, I am not a legal eagle; not a lawyer, judge, or legislator.

This thread is more of an inquiry than anything, but if this isn't the appropriate location, then Mods, please move it.

Drunk driving is, without a doubt, a killer.....so why does there seem to be a weak patchwork system of laws and penalties?

I a unfamiliar with all the laws in all states, so perhaps those with a legal background can help shed some light on this for me.

Driver on third DUI who killed Afghanistan vet gets 6-month jail term | Fox News

Third DUI which results in a death.....why only 6 months?
Why am I reading about people with 5,10, and 15 DUI arrests? After the first few DUI arrests, it seems that it is very apparent that these people have NO desire to change, and will continue to put people at risk through their actions.

What are we doing wrong in the Justice system? Do we need a 3 strike law for DUI's? mandatory minimum time in jail?
Do we have a 3 strike policy in any of the states? Minimum jail time anywhere?

Does anyone know?
Click to expand...

That sounds unusual. Was the perp rich? Rich people get away with that sort of thing. The average bloke who kills someone after his third DUI is looking at probably 15 years, min. Rich guy kills four people while drunk, he gets probation.

Life is like that.
 
Polar Bum said:
Okay....first, I am not a legal eagle; not a lawyer, judge, or legislator.

This thread is more of an inquiry than anything, but if this isn't the appropriate location, then Mods, please move it.

Drunk driving is, without a doubt, a killer.....so why does there seem to be a weak patchwork system of laws and penalties?

I a unfamiliar with all the laws in all states, so perhaps those with a legal background can help shed some light on this for me.

Driver on third DUI who killed Afghanistan vet gets 6-month jail term | Fox News

Third DUI which results in a death.....why only 6 months?
Why am I reading about people with 5,10, and 15 DUI arrests? After the first few DUI arrests, it seems that it is very apparent that these people have NO desire to change, and will continue to put people at risk through their actions.

What are we doing wrong in the Justice system? Do we need a 3 strike law for DUI's? mandatory minimum time in jail?
Do we have a 3 strike policy in any of the states? Minimum jail time anywhere?

Does anyone know?
Click to expand...

First, there are no "universal laws" for DUI. Each State is "sovereign" within it's own borders so laws vary from State to State.

Thus, some States may have relatively lenient laws, while others have relatively harsh laws regarding DUI from first offense to...whatever subsequent number offense.

As with States, personal opinions will vary about what should be done with DUI offenses, depending on how many and what additional harms occurred during each offense (aside from just being caught driving drunk).

In some states, while licenses are suspended, offenders may still be allowed limited driving privileges to and from work in order to maintain income and take care of family and personal expenses.

Soooo...I guess the debate should be about should we try to establish a national standard, and if that is possible, then what would it be?

Suggestions?
 
Last edited:
calamity said:
That sounds unusual. Was the perp rich? Rich people get away with that sort of thing. The average bloke who kills someone after his third DUI is looking at probably 15 years, min. Rich guy kills four people while drunk, he gets probation.

Life is like that.
Click to expand...

Age? Money?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-teen-gets-probation-for-drunken-crash-that-killed-four/

Driver who caused crash that killed 4-year-old girl gets 6 months in jail; parents say they forgive him - Chicago Tribune

Man blames 10th DUI on eating beer-battered fish - NY Daily News

57-year-old KCK man sentenced to house arrest for 10th DUI | FOX 4 Kansas City WDAF-TV | News, Weather, Sports

15th DUI Arrest for Lincoln Man

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/lynnwood-man-held-in-15th-dui-arrest/

http://fox4kc.com/2012/12/12/15th-dui-nets-kansas-man-just-one-year-in-jail/

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...drunk-driving-offense/1nmvIdJ7Qx1WBthPF6WpZI/

https://jonathanturley.org/2009/12/29/minnesota-man-racks-up-20th-dui-offense/

Or a broken judicial system??

How can anyone be walking around free after after 15 DUI's, let alone 20?
 
Captain Adverse said:
First, there are no "universal laws" for DUI. Each State is "sovereign" within it's own borders so laws vary from State to State.

Thus, some States may have relatively lenient laws, while others have relatively harsh laws regarding DUI from first offense to...whatever subsequent number offense.

As with States, personal opinions will vary about what should be done with DUI offenses, depending on how many and what additional harms occurred during each offense (aside from just being caught driving drunk).

In some states, while licenses are suspended, offenders may still be allowed limited driving privileges to and from work in order to maintain income and take care of family and personal expenses.

Soooo...I guess the debate should be about should we try to establish a national standard, and if that is possible, then what would it be?

Suggestions?
Click to expand...

Im not sure....not being a legal type.

Should laws be different for DUI's that take place on the Federal Interstate system as opposed to city streets?

Do we need a National " X number of DUI's and you lose your right to drive for life?".....Longer mandatory jail time for second and third offense?
 
Polar Bum said:
Im not sure....not being a legal type.

Should laws be different for DUI's that take place on the Federal Interstate system as opposed to city streets?

Do we need a National " X number of DUI's and you lose your right to drive for life?".....Longer mandatory jail time for second and third offense?
Click to expand...

I am not in favor of jail time for non-violent offenses. DUI is a "crime" in that it violates the rules for licensed use of motor vehicles on public streets.

Driving is a public use privilege, and drunk driving in and of itself does not automatically result in a tangible harm...unlike crimes like theft, assault, vandalism, murder, etc.

So jail time for simply driving drunk? No. Permanent loss of driving privileges? Maybe.

Of course if the drunk driving incident involves a tangible harm (damage to property, injury, death) then that is another story and IMO jail time commensurate with the harm is a viable option.
 
Last edited:
Captain Adverse said:
I am not in favor of jail time for non-violent offenses. DUI is a "crime" in that it violates the rules for licensed use of motor vehicles on public streets.

Driving is a public use privilege, and drunk driving in and of itself does not automatically result in a tangible harm...unlike crimes like theft, assault, vandalism, murder, etc.

So jail time for simply driving drunk? No. Permanent loss of driving privileges? Maybe.

Of course if the drunk driving incident involves a tangible harm (damage to property, injury, death) then that is another story and IMO jail time commensurate with the harm is a viable option.
Click to expand...

Perhaps that may be part of the problem; there is no real incentive for anyone to stop driving drunk...it would appear the penalties are ineffective.

The only harsh penalties that seem to come into play occur after there is an injury or fatality ( if you can call 6 months harsh)...I don't know if that is a deterrent.
 
Polar Bum said:
Age? Money?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-teen-gets-probation-for-drunken-crash-that-killed-four/

Driver who caused crash that killed 4-year-old girl gets 6 months in jail; parents say they forgive him - Chicago Tribune

Man blames 10th DUI on eating beer-battered fish - NY Daily News

57-year-old KCK man sentenced to house arrest for 10th DUI | FOX 4 Kansas City WDAF-TV | News, Weather, Sports

15th DUI Arrest for Lincoln Man

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/lynnwood-man-held-in-15th-dui-arrest/

http://fox4kc.com/2012/12/12/15th-dui-nets-kansas-man-just-one-year-in-jail/

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...drunk-driving-offense/1nmvIdJ7Qx1WBthPF6WpZI/

https://jonathanturley.org/2009/12/29/minnesota-man-racks-up-20th-dui-offense/

Or a broken judicial system??

How can anyone be walking around free after after 15 DUI's, let alone 20?
Click to expand...

Those cases really illustrate how absurd our judicial system can be.
 
Polar Bum said:
Okay....first, I am not a legal eagle; not a lawyer, judge, or legislator.

This thread is more of an inquiry than anything, but if this isn't the appropriate location, then Mods, please move it.

Drunk driving is, without a doubt, a killer.....so why does there seem to be a weak patchwork system of laws and penalties?

I a unfamiliar with all the laws in all states, so perhaps those with a legal background can help shed some light on this for me.

Driver on third DUI who killed Afghanistan vet gets 6-month jail term | Fox News

Third DUI which results in a death.....why only 6 months?
Why am I reading about people with 5,10, and 15 DUI arrests? After the first few DUI arrests, it seems that it is very apparent that these people have NO desire to change, and will continue to put people at risk through their actions.

What are we doing wrong in the Justice system? Do we need a 3 strike law for DUI's? mandatory minimum time in jail?
Do we have a 3 strike policy in any of the states? Minimum jail time anywhere?

Does anyone know?
Click to expand...

Unless I missed something, he had 3 DUIs, the third one resulting in a death. 6 months does not sound usual, rich or not.

The amount of DUIs does. It seems unless you kill someone, you can keep on doing it. I would be agreeable to a 3 strike law, instead of waiting for them to kill someone first.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am not in favor of jail time for non-violent offenses. DUI is a "crime" in that it violates the rules for licensed use of motor vehicles on public streets.

Driving is a public use privilege, and drunk driving in and of itself does not automatically result in a tangible harm...unlike crimes like theft, assault, vandalism, murder, etc.

So jail time for simply driving drunk? No. Permanent loss of driving privileges? Maybe.

Of course if the drunk driving incident involves a tangible harm (damage to property, injury, death) then that is another story and IMO jail time commensurate with the harm is a viable option.
Click to expand...


Then what is a deterrent?
 
holbritter said:
Unless I missed something, he had 3 DUIs, the third one resulting in a death. 6 months does not sound usual, rich or not.

The amount of DUIs does. It seems unless you kill someone, you can keep on doing it. I would be agreeable to a 3 strike law, instead of waiting for them to kill someone first.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Which is why I am shocked when I read about 5,10,15, and 20 or more DUI's......these people are playing Russian roulette with a few thousand pounds of fast moving machinery, and I think I have a better understanding now of why there are so many DUI related fatalities on our roads.

It appears the courts wont really sit up and take notice until someone is crippled or killed.
 
Polar Bum said:
Indeed.

Which is why I am shocked when I read about 5,10,15, and 20 or more DUI's......these people are playing Russian roulette with a few thousand pounds of fast moving machinery, and I think I have a better understanding now of why there are so many DUI related fatalities on our roads.

It appears the courts wont really sit up and take notice until someone is crippled or killed.
Click to expand...

I read through those links. What appears to be happening is most of the cases fall within certain loopholes in the law. For example, multiple arrests for DUI are not the same as multiple convictions. Another loophole is that some of those with convictions have had enough time elapse between them that they are exempt from multiple conviction laws.

The case that really stood out as gray was the guy killing the four-year old. He had trace amounts of coke in his system, but he was not drunk. He also stayed at the scene and showed actual remorse thereafter. The victim's family even forgave him...perhaps due to the fact that the perp paid them a substantial amount of money. :shrug:
 
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