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Thread: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

  1. #111
    U mad bro?

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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Me too; it is clearly judicial forms of activism.
    You certainly have to be suspicious when a judge makes remarks that don't make sense. By characterizing compliance with the law as "violence" against bakery owner's religious beliefs I think it went from a legal determination of compliance or non-compliance with the law to some kind of personal position the judge was taking. It just seemed very over the top.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 02-15-18 at 04:12 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

  2. #112
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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    You certainly have to be suspicious when a judge makes remarks that don't make sense. By characterizing compliance with the law as "violence" against bakery owner's religious I think it went from legal determination of compliance or non-compliance with the law to some kind of personal position the judge was taking. It just seemed very over the top.
    It would be, if they had clearly advertised as Christian Bakers employing Christian morals, and operate on a not-for-profit basis, to prove it for free under Any form of Capitalism.

  3. #113
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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    PART 2




    5 that will happen but its not enough and doesn always matter in many areas
    6.) Correct the law cant change feelings or beliefs and nor should it. people are totally free to have what feelings and belief they like
    7.) but they actually wont and cant if its against they law and they get caught. Yes of course they can always do it in a legal way but they will have to be very careful. And if they do it legally then no harm no foul really. If EVERY black person is rude, or EVERY women is an idiot and not worth hiring/promoting, or EVERY gay cake is offensive then they will still have explaining to do.

    But you are right and to me thats what makes these bigots even more sick. They arent educated enough or are so ignorant and proud of their bigotry they want it on display. They could have avoid their fines etc if they simply came up with a rational reason.


    8.) thats NOT a fault, and the reason why its not a fault is because you just proved you have the ability to recognize that. You FULLY understand that walking a mile in your shoes is NOT walking a mile in a gay person's, women'd or minoritie's shoes and that your perception may not be the most accurate or reality based.

    That my friend is called, integrity and rational. its being objective and trying your best to be farsighted. Its what the world needs much more of. We dont all have to see things the same way, some of the best conversations i have had here over the years are with those that have different opinions, but we all have to realize that our own little bubble is not factually representative of all.
    I agree with you on all of this and thank you for the kind words. It's good when people can engage in civil, intelligent debate on a very polarizing subject and find common ground. As much as I like argue with certain posters on this board, I really would like to see this kind of discussion occur on other topics.
    *insert profound statement here*

  4. #114
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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It would be, if they had clearly advertised as Christian Bakers employing Christian morals, and operate on a not-for-profit basis, to prove it for free under Any form of Capitalism.
    You've made a very good point with your comments on how there is a legal way for them to invoke their religion and avoid serving certain protected classes of people. The obvious drawback being they must operate as a non-profit. I truthfully was unaware a company could use a 501(c)(3) status to skirt accommodation laws.

    The difference between a "Christian operated bakery" and a bakery "owned by Christians." I can't say that I like that provision in the law, but at least there does seem to be a punitive effect of some kind for the ugliness.
    *insert profound statement here*

  5. #115
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I agree with you on all of this and thank you for the kind words. It's good when people can engage in civil, intelligent debate on a very polarizing subject and find common ground. As much as I like argue with certain posters on this board, I really would like to see this kind of discussion occur on other topics.
    You're welcome.
    and I appracite the same type of conversation.



    Anytime an exchange is honest, facts and opinions are identified and not blurred this is the type of exchange youll always have with me. Now for those posters that lie or troll or deem their feelings facts, well . . . not so much I will simply stay the course identify what is just an opinion, what is a lie, what is a mistake and what facts are. Posters that are not honest and civil seem to hate that
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  6. #116
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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    You've made a very good point with your comments on how there is a legal way for them to invoke their religion and avoid serving certain protected classes of people. The obvious drawback being they must operate as a non-profit. I truthfully was unaware a company could use a 501(c)(3) status to skirt accommodation laws.

    The difference between a "Christian operated bakery" and a bakery "owned by Christians." I can't say that I like that provision in the law, but at least there does seem to be a punitive effect of some kind for the ugliness.
    Public accommodation is for everyone.

    Why didn't those bakers proclaim, "we will be saying our prayers for you while we bake your cake"?

  7. #117
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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Public accommodation is for everyone.

    Why didn't those bakers proclaim, "we will be saying our prayers for you while we bake your cake"?
    That really would be preferable. I know a number of Christians who would have never turned them away. I mean seriously, gluttony is called out in the bible. How man overweight brides and groom have they said no to? Or overweight customers period? I know i"m getting very critical now, but considering Agent J's remark about it being dishonest to hid behind your religion, I would have to say there is undoubtedly a huge level of hypocrisy going on. I mean sin is sin, or so we are told.

    Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Just makes me dislike these people even more.
    *insert profound statement here*

  8. #118
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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Yeah, I get that. But how can the law be applied consistently if Joe's religion, or his interpretation of it, allows him to do something but Joan's interpretation of the same religion says she can't do the same thing? Doesn't the law need to be the same for everyone?
    See, my beef is with the judge making his ruling based on the religion of the baker. The baker objected on religious grounds.So now, with that precedent, everyone is free to treat anyone else however they want if they can justify it based on the scripture of their religion. Is that gonna work when a Muslim taxi driver refuses to drive an unescorted woman somewhere?
    Judging by the news today, I wouldn't do anything alone with any unescorted woman for any reason at any time. If the lady is present and alone, the door is open.

    That aside, though, if the unescorted woman was demanding that the driver deliver her to her destination in a Ford and he happened to be driving a Chevy, that is more parallel to the baker example.

    Perhaps he does business in San Francisco and she wants a ride to New York. If he routinely goes there, fine. If not, it seems alright that he refuse the fare and direct her to an Airport.

    Can we expect the driver to produce something that he cannot provide to satisfy the request of someone who makes the irrational demand?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  9. #119
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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Calling a rose a rose is not judgmentally condemning Christians. Bigoted actions don't magically become not bigoted because they're performed by a religious person.
    Don't you just hate it when people edit your posts to change the entire meaning and then present them as if they have not been edited?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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    Re: U.S. judge rules it would be ‘tyranny’ to force Christian to bake cake for lesbian ‘marriage’

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Not the same...to be the same.. the second bakery would also have to make the cakes.. but simply not for certain types of people.

    The bakery makes WEDDING cakes.

    They don;t find wedding cakes offensive... they find the people that wanted to buy one.. "offensive".
    I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make between the types of cakes in the two examples.

    Apparently the judge in the case thought the product was different. Do you have a link that shows that the requested cake was exactly the same cake as the ones they routinely made?

    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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